Horses in Distress

2013irl

Where to start? I want to know whether I wait around and let three horses in rather mild neglect deteriorate into what I fear will be much worse or do I do something else about it?
Please note: I reported a horse from the same owners' in the same field as the horses noted below. That horse was in such a horrendous condition that it had to be put down immediately. I was advised by local friends and family not to make an official complaint as the owners are very influential and violent people in the area. Please read on:
There are three neglected horses in a field near where I live. I rang the local SPCA, they told me they do not have the resources to come out to help or investigate. I also rang another SPCA from the county next to us, and was told the same thing and in regards to bringing any official complaints / charges against these people, it is not all that advisable as it simply would not be successful.
The Gardai explained in a very nice roundabout sort of way, that the owners of those horses (and I presume the land) would just move these horses elsewhere and continue with possible neglect. They did say that they would help if further evidence of serious neglect or medical conditions are noted or reported at any time. The owners are members of a very violent and well known travelling family. I am not saying all travellers are violent, just this particular group are well known. I live in a county known for traveller family feuds and violence.
Upon my own inspection of the horses, there is no trough for food, and a dirty and rusted water trough of rainwater. The field is only soggy marshy and muddy with very little grass at all. The horses themselves are sodden, dirty, swollen bellies, but only one is thin. One is limping slightly and all three are friendly but badly maintained. Never brushed or otherwise cared for, they have overall poor care and do not have daily visits from their owners or carers. They've been there for around two months.
These are not the only badly cared for horses in the area but I can't go around reporting everyone like some mad man! The Gardai can only help so much and the SPCA are completely useless with their lack of funding/resources. What on earth do I do? Wait for them to be badly neglected so the someone can act or ignore it like their horrible owners? I need advice on what to do next.
Note: I live in a boggy and fairly remote part of the country.

Pumpkinseeds

Have you checked with the Gardaí to see if these people have a ban on keeping animals? I only ask as quite often anyone convicted of that kind of neglect were an animal has to be euthanised as a result of cruelty/neglect might be banned from keeping animals.

I'm not surprised that you're finding it difficult to get the SPCA to help, there are so many horses in distress that many rescues and sanctuaries are overwhelmed. All you can do is keep an eye on the situation. But surely if the horses are being starved then the SPCA would be lawfully obliged to investigate. I thought they were supposed to send out an Inspector to check on the horses and contact the owners if they identify neglect.

2013irl

I'll check with the Gardai tomorrow, good call!
Yes the local SPCA said my only course of action is to work with the Gardai. The two SPCA women I spoke to stated that they simply have no resources to deal with it and they have no inspector for my area as we are along county borders. Although the SPCA county next to me said it's the other county's problem. I know there is a high volume of cases with horses, and these guys aren't too bad yet, but it still classifies as neglect... the SPCA didn't want to know. The Gardai don't seem to be doing much unless the horses are very poor in health/condition. I'll know more perhaps when I ring the Gardai tomorrow.

percy212

What happens in a case like this if the SPCA or Gardai get involved? Are the horses euthanized? I have heard of horses being euthanized for non payment of bills at certain stables. Cheaper than looking after them naturally. Shameful.

Pumpkinseeds

Might be worth having a look online and seeing if there are any animal rescues in your area that could give you any advice as well.

DBB

Just in case clarification is needed, the SPCAs are voluntary, largely privately funded organisations, with no powers whatsoever in law enforcement in Ireland: they may be invited to act as "expert witness" in court cases, or advise Gardai by invitation during a case, but that's it. If they want to take a criminal case against the owner of an animal, they must do so via An Garda Siochana.
There is no legal mandate for the SPCAs to investigate cruelty, nor no legal obligation on them to take in and care for abandoned/cruelly treated animals. Their officers have no State warrant to enter lands or detain any animal. If they are to investigate an act of cruelty or neglect, they must have the Gardai with them if they need to enter any lands, and no animal owner is under any legal obligation to talk to them or provide them with any evidence, as they are, legally, simply members of the public.. not officers of the law.
In any case it sounds like you're getting the shrug here OP. I would be more inclined to contact (a) the county council (they may have a duty of care for stray horses as well as dogs.. are these horses on lands owned by their owners?), and/or (b) the Department of Agriculture, who are charged with the registration of horses on the national passport registry, amongst other things equine.

2013irl

Thank you for your replies. The clarification on the SPCA is very interesting, thank you. I will be going forward with contacting the council/gardai/dept of agriculture for more information regarding these horses and the law in general regarding horses in similar situations. Thank you for everyone's help, all will be sorted soon I hope. If I have any updates on these horses welfare or any positive outcomes, I'll let everyone know.

DBB

Thanks OP, I can only imagine how frustrated you feel. Whatever chance dogs and smallies have of being rescued from situations of awful neglect, horses have almost no chance unless they're lucky enough to get a spot in a rescue... and there aren't anywhere enough horse rescues. The issue with the owners adds a whole other tangent to the problem.
Good luck OP, a big pat on the back for at least trying to do something

Pumpkinseeds

DBB wrote: »

Just in case clarification is needed, the SPCAs are voluntary, largely privately funded organisations, with no powers whatsoever in law enforcement in Ireland: they may be invited to act as "expert witness" in court cases, or advise Gardai by invitation during a case, but that's it. If they want to take a criminal case against the owner of an animal, they must do so via An Garda Siochana.
There is no legal mandate for the SPCAs to investigate cruelty, nor no legal obligation on them to take in and care for abandoned/cruelly treated animals. Their officers have no State warrant to enter lands or detain any animal. If they are to investigate an act of cruelty or neglect, they must have the Gardai with them if they need to enter any lands, and no animal owner is under any legal obligation to talk to them or provide them with any evidence, as they are, legally, simply members of the public.. not officers of the law.
In any case it sounds like you're getting the shrug here OP. I would be more inclined to contact (a) the county council (they may have a duty of care for stray horses as well as dogs.. are these horses on lands owned by their owners?), and/or (b) the Department of Agriculture, who are charged with the registration of horses on the national passport registry, amongst other things equine.

I never knew that, its good to know, thanks.

fleabag

As a last resort, if you don't get anywhere through the official channels, how about feeding them yourself or at least supplementing what little the field has to offer? I noticed a donkey and horse in a field that I pass on the way home and like you, there was hardly any grass, no shelter and they looked miserable but in ok condition. I started dropping by with carrots and apples to try and give them some vitamins and a bit of a treat. T'was grand for a time but then they were moved - hopefully indoors or to a better field at least.

I don't know your circumstances and maybe it's not a financial option but may be neighbours might chip in or a local shop might give you the leftover veggies as well? I was wondering too if local charities might not be able to help directly but could drop off a bale of hay for you or perhaps a local farmer might give you one cheap??

May be these suggestions are completely impractical for one reason or another and especially after what you said about the owners but like you, I would get very frustrated if I could do nothing knowing that animals were suffering. Fair play for trying and not turning a blind eye. Good luck.

Tranceypoo

OP, I would second the County Council and Dept of Ag suggestions, a few years ago now I had success with reporting horses, after finding out who they were owned by and that they were farmers I got onto the DOA, it took a few phone calls and quite a bit of 'call this person' 'oh no, you need to call this person' but I persisted and the DOA went out to them, basically I think any mistreatement of animals on their own farm (even horses) would ultimately affect their payments and they cleaned up their act pretty sharpish.

Now obviously if you know that these horses are owned by a certain family of travellers they are unlikely to be farmers and I'm pretty sure the first few people you speak to at the Co Co and the DOA will say 'oh it's not our problem' but if you keep on at them they may be forced to do something. It's worth noting that if the horses owners don't actually own the land the horses are on then the owner of the land would be responsible I think, be that the Co Co or a local farmer.

I feel your frustration I have ongoing worries about horses where I live now, I was just on the verge of calling my local SPCA (as they had come out before to investigate a horse for me, the owner just needed a bit of advice and education) when a huge heap of feed/hay turned up in their field!!

Good luck, keep us posted.

ETA, have you looked on Facebook for any local horse welfare places? I know there's one called Hollys Horse Haven or something similar and there's also the Irish Horse Welfare place but they don't cover the whole of Ireland apparently (so why call themselves Irish Horse Welfare I often wonder!!)

Vel

I would suggest that if you are unsuccessful with the Dept of Ag down the line you should contact your local T.Ds/councillors and ask them to make representations on your behalf. It can sometimes prompt movement when your efforts alone don't!

witchqueen

This is tricky. I'm member of a horse welfare charity and we have been through all the authorities over the last 12 months. If the horses are on council or private land you have to contact the Co Co. The Gardai are entitled to seize welfare cases but it's along way down the road until horses are considered welfare cases. In your case as it is a well known travelling family the Gardai might not want to get involved at all.

Indications for a welfare case is not just the body score, check their feet, overgrown hooves can be taken in, as well as rain scald, parts mostly on their backs with no coat but the skin. Try to contact the Co. council vet directly and the Dept. of Agriculture vet too, to come out and have a look at the horses. You have to be very persistant to get to talk to the right person and speak very clearly of neglect. Feel free to pm me if you need more advise.

witchqueen

One more thing try to find local charities around you and ask for help. They might know the right person to talk to or can even take them in if they will be seized. Once the horses are seized by the Council they go to the pound and will be put down.

DBB

witchqueen wrote: »

One more thing try to find local charities around you and ask for help. They might know the right person to talk to or can even take them in if they will be seized. Once the horses are seized by the Council they go to the pound and will be put down.

Agreed witchqueen: if there is somewhere already lined up for these horses to go, if it comes to it, it'll mean they can be moved out before anyone has time to think about throwing a spanner in the works!

percy212

witchqueen wrote: »

Once the horses are seized by the Council they go to the pound and will be put down.

I was wondering about this eventuality. Its so sad.

I am annoyed to hear that authorities want to avoid conflict with the family because they are travelers. I don't see why they should get special treatment just because they threaten violence. The opposite should be true. One would imagine that a group of people who relied heavily on horses for most of their living memory would have greater respect for the creatures who served them so well.

People should be prosecuted in all cases for abandoning or neglecting animals.

Well done OP for trying to help.