Penalty points problem re. insurance

araic88

I got 2 penalty points in March 2011 for speeding, I got insurance in January 2012 with a certain company, when I went to renew in the last few weeks their offer was still the best for me so I clicked the 'quick renew' option on their website that automatically uses the details you inputted previously.

However, and I know this probably sounds really stupid/impossible but I just noticed on the Policy Schedule that they posted to me, that I said I have no penalty points. I really wouldn't mean to lie on a form like that as I know it'd be pretty stupid to, but last year I must have clicked '0 points'.

I think the discount I got for having 'no' points was €133 and I wouldn't mind ringing them up & asking to change that & paying that sum (if that'd be possible?), but I'm wondering would I have to explain that I actually got the points in 2011 in which case I technically lied the whole time they insured me last year. Also, I can't find the letter from the Gardai at the time with the exact date etc. but maybe I don't need it?

tossy

Personally i wouldn't worry about it.

joujoujou

Ring them and ask.

AFAIR most (if not all) insurers allow you to have certain amount of penalty points without a problem.

Don't remember exact amount, more than likely up to 4 or 5 points.

guil

Ring and ask, some give an additional discount for having no points, I think Aviva is one of them

anoda_username

Afaik if it's not more than 2 points you don't have to inform your insurance company

TestTransmission

anoda_username wrote: »

Afaik if it's not more than 2 points you don't have to inform your insurance company

Yes.You do

Anan1

Tell them immediately - there's no point in paying for insurance while giving them an excuse to wriggle out of paying out.

oldyouth

anoda_username wrote: »

Afaik if it's not more than 2 points you don't have to inform your insurance company

That's not correct. Most will ignore 2/4 points but it must be disclosed to them. The OP says there is a €133 discount for having no points, so it is a material fact in that it affects the premium in this instance. Don't give insurers a reason to decline a future claim for something as trivial as this. Sort it now OP

araic88

Thanks for the replies.
As mentioned I got a discount of 133 for having no points so I presume that's all I'd have to pay, I guess I was being a big OTT thinking I'd 'get in trouble' if they realised I got the points in 2011, before they insured me last year.

It says on the policy schedule that you need to inform them if any drivers insured has received points, and that an additional €2500 excess may apply if u don't. That's quite an extra excess!

tossy

Correct me if i am wrong but insurance companies don't have access to the penalty points records in this country.

So theoretically the only way the can find out is by you telling them,or by it coming out in the wash in a say a court case arising from something you did or were involved in while in control of your car,and lets face it if that's the case then previous points are going to be the least of your worries,lets hope you never go there though OP.

Del2005

tossy wrote: »

Personally i wouldn't worry about it.

You wouldn't worry about not being fully insured and potentially having to pay out for 3rd party claims. You must be loaded.

tossy

Del2005 wrote: »

You wouldn't worry about not being fully insured and potentially having to pay out for 3rd party claims. You must be loaded.

No i am not loaded,i wouldn't be worried about not disclosing 2 points to an insurance company operating in what is a akin to a 3rd world motoring administration - there is no effective,transparent cross co-operation or links between the insurance industry,Gardai and vehicle database in this country it;s a joke.

Example insurance companies only got the ability to tell you what your car was by reading your reg once 3rd party and private sites like cartell and motorcheck came along.If we had a decent set up in this country you would ring an insurer give your reg and then you would have to prove you were the person that came up on their computer and you lived at the address that came up on their computer and THEY would TELL you how many points you had.

What's insurance like on that high horse?

Profiler

tossy wrote: »

Correct me if i am wrong but insurance companies don't have access to the penalty points records in this country.

So theoretically the only way the can find out is by you telling them,or by it coming out in the wash in a say a court case arising from something you did or were involved in while in control of your car,and lets face it if that's the case then previous points are going to be the least of your worries,lets hope you never go there though OP.

Even if he is involved in a non fault accident it can come out.

The problem the OP has is if he does get caught for this, when he goes to renew again or take out with another company then the OP has to keep lying to cover the first lie.

When it does come out, and chances are it will once Insurance Companies get access to the points system, what chances will the OP have of ever getting insurance again?

If you are dishonest with insurance companies unsurprisingly they take a very dim view of you.

OldmanMondeo

tossy wrote: »

What's insurance like on that high horse?

Giving correct information is not being on a high horse. OP could be in serious trouble should they be involved in an accident all because someone said not to worry about it.

And I don't have a horse, put the fecker in a burger...

oldyouth

You usually have to submit a copy of your driving licence as part of the documentation for a claim. It will come out then and the claims handler will have a little smirk to himself

tossy

oldyouth wrote: »

You usually have to submit a copy of your driving licence as part of the documentation for a claim. It will come out then and the claims handler will have a little smirk to himself

How will it come out then ? Some insurance companies ask for a copy of your license when taking out cover....

oldyouth

tossy wrote: »

How will it come out then ? Some insurance companies ask for a copy of your license when taking out cover....

Eh, yeah.. and some don't. ALL Insurers will ask for a copy of your licence when submitting a claim, it is one of the standard checks, regardless if you submitted one at inception. Trust me, claims clerks are as happy as clams when they come across non-disclosure.

tossy

oldyouth wrote: »

Eh, yeah.. and some don't. ALL Insurers will ask for a copy of your licence when submitting a claim, it is one of the standard checks, regardless if you submitted one at inception. Trust me, claims clerks are as happy as clams when they come across non-disclosure.

So how do they find out what points you have or haven't got when you give them a copy of your license?

Del2005

tossy wrote: »

No i am not loaded,i wouldn't be worried about not disclosing 2 points to an insurance company operating in what is a akin to a 3rd world motoring administration - there is no effective,transparent cross co-operation or links between the insurance industry,Gardai and vehicle database in this country it;s a joke.

Example insurance companies only got the ability to tell you what your car was by reading your reg once 3rd party and private sites like cartell and motorcheck came along.If we had a decent set up in this country you would ring an insurer give your reg and then you would have to prove you were the person that came up on their computer and you lived at the address that came up on their computer and THEY would TELL you how many points you had.

What's insurance like on that high horse?

The OP made a mistake, they can ring up and get it rectified with no issues. If they need to make a claim its too late to pull out 2 penalty points then and not informing them is fraud.

Why does the insurance company need to know what car you drive before you do? It's not that difficult to tell them what you drive. Personally I'd rather if the government didn't share personal information with private companies. Have a read of some of the issues that they are having in the UK with insurance companies and databases.

Providing your correct details, and then informing them of any material changes to you or your vehicle, makes sure you are correctly insured.


The insurance on my high horse is fine as I don't have to worry if I need to claim.

oldyouth

tossy wrote: »

So how do they find out what points you have or haven't got when you give them a copy of your license?

Because the licence should be endorsed with them

OldmanMondeo

oldyouth wrote: »

Because the licence should be endorsed with them

No. I had 2 a few year back, nothing on my licence. The endorsed system is either gone or just not used any more.

Someone never got points so....

PoopyMcDildo

No where on the new plastic licences to record endorsements.

MugMugs

tossy wrote: »

So how do they find out what points you have or haven't got when you give them a copy of your license?

Easy.

Hi Tossy. As a condition written into your policy and before we indemnify you for this accident you just had costing near 20k we require you to submit a statement of penalty points which you will obtain from the RSA, Cordially, your insurance company.

MugMugs

Anan1 wrote: »

Tell them immediately - there's no point in paying for insurance while giving them an excuse to wriggle out of paying out.

By the way OP. This is the best advice you'll receive here today.

PoopyMcDildo

Dear Licence holder,

We have no record of any penalty points on your Bermuda driving licence.

Kind Regards
RSA

Insurance company stuffed.

3DataModem

Your policy probably has a clause stating your excess is increased in the event of non disclosure. A policy I had before listed a 2k excess for non-disclosure of 2 points.

MugMugs

PoopyMcDildo wrote: »

Insurance company stuffed.

Why? Why would the RSA hold records for Bermuda drivers?

Also, assuming the Insurer discriminate against policyholders who are using foreign driving licences for having foreign penalty points could ask for a statement from the foreign licencing authority.

PoopyMcDildo

Excesses don't matter where 3rd parties are concerned.

PoopyMcDildo

MugMugs wrote: »

Why? Why would the RSA hold records for Bermuda drivers?

Also, assuming the Insurer discriminate against policyholders who are using foreign driving licences for having foreign penalty points could ask for a statement from the foreign licencing authority.

There would be no verify it. I can't see them ringing Ulan Bator.

MugMugs

PoopyMcDildo wrote: »

There would be no verify it. I can't see them ringing Ulan Bator.

Does the OP have a foreign driving licence?

Jimdagym

PoopyMcDildo wrote: »

There would be no verify it. I can't see them ringing Ulan Bator.

Of course they wouldn't. It's in Mongolia, not Bermuda.

AltAccount

PoopyMcDildo wrote: »

There would be no verify it. I can't see them ringing Ulan Bator.

Do you think someone with an unverifiable Bermuda licence pays the same premium as someone with a full, clean Irish licence?

ThreeLineWhip

MugMugs wrote: »

Easy.

Hi Tossy. As a condition written into your policy and before we indemnify you for this accident you just had costing near 20k we require you to submit a statement of penalty points which you will obtain from the RSA, Cordially, your insurance company.

It would not matter as the insurance company could not welch on the 3rd parties damage.

AltAccount

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

It would not matter as the insurance company could not welch on the 3rd parties damage.

But they could invalidate any comprehensive cover and possibly pursue to recover the 3rd party-related costs?

ThreeLineWhip

They could but in reality it is very unlikely.

tossy

MugMugs wrote: »

Easy.

Hi Tossy. As a condition written into your policy and before we indemnify you for this accident you just had costing near 20k we require you to submit a statement of penalty points which you will obtain from the RSA, Cordially, your insurance company.

Do you work in the industry ? is that standard practice? i've never heard of it and i know of a few people involved in big enough claims on their policies.

Look i'm not really condoning not telling them (although my original comment was don't worry about it) but the fact of the matter is to the best of my knowledge outside of a worst case scenario court case the insurance companies have no way of finding out what points you have and that more or less makes a mockery of the entire penalty points system and highlights how useless it is.

The amount of people who i know who apply the following logic is many.. get 2 points for speeding not a bother,get 4 points take it more handy,get 6 ok that's enough for now i'll calm down till the first 2 go away. if we had an insurance system linked to the penalty points register it would in one year do more for reducing speed than the penalty points have done since their introduction i'e get 2 points for speeding and a couple of weeks after you pay the fine you get a further letter from your insurer informing you that are aware of your points.

AltAccount

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

They could but in reality it is very unlikely.

And this opinion is based on....

ThreeLineWhip

Personal experience and knowing too many within the industry.

They are not going to chase some 17 year old for €50000 if he does not have it.

oldyouth

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

Personal experience and knowing too many within the industry.

They are not going to chase some 17 year old for €50000 if he does not have it.

But they are likely to refuse indemnity for any own damage claim. Then they can force a cancellation for non-disclosure and the whole thing snowballs for the policyholder for years to come

ThreeLineWhip

And all he has to do is stay off the road for a few years and the whole thing blows over.

I know a lad that happened to. 5 years later he started over again with a clean slate.

Senna

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

They are not going to chase some 17 year old for €50000 if he does not have it.

Grand if your 17, but if you are an adult with an average or above average wage job they could (and have done) peruse you for the costs.

Del2005

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

They are not going to chase some 17 year old for €50000 if he does not have it.

And there in lies the problem. The insurance company just increase the premiums for the honest folks. If they did go after people, even if there's no chance of getting the money straight away, it would reduce a huge amount of the fraud currently happening.

If a 17 year old with no money has a €50k judgement against them and the money deducted at source from whatever source of income they have , even if it's only €10 a week for the rest of their life, it would immediately reduce our premiums as it would actively discourage fraud.

MugMugs

tossy wrote: »

Do you work in the industry ? is that standard practice? i've never heard of it and i know of a few people involved in big enough claims on their policies.

Is it done? From time to time. Standard practice? Generally not.... There's generally an underlying reason why the question is asked or the Insurer is just looking for enough ammo against the Insured.

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

Personal experience and knowing too many within the industry.

They are not going to chase some 17 year old for €50000 if he does not have it.

I'd happily get a judgement marked on somebody for 50k if they acted the mick enough. Perhaps not for declaring points but something serious enough like a ban or claim history. Paying 200 a month for the rest of their life will keep them on the straight and narrow with future matters and teach their friends not to act the maggot either.

ThreeLineWhip

Lads, debts cannot be collected for the rest of someone's life. 12 years is the limit set by law.
Gotta love the moral outrage and sense of entitlement. Your place in heaven is assured.

Oh yes there is a little thing called bankruptcy. You can whistle then for your money.

AltAccount

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

Lads, debts cannot be collected for the rest of someone's life. 12 years is the limit set by law.
Gotta love the moral outrage and sense of entitlement. Your place in heaven is assured.

Oh yes there is a little thing called bankruptcy. You can whistle then for your money.

So your solution now amounts to bankruptcy and not driving for 5 years, and then you'll be grand?

Seems easier to disclose the points and other material facts tbh.

ThreeLineWhip

I honestly couldn't give a toss.

If a person has a large enough claim it is often cheaper to stay off the road for 5 years rather than be subservient to a bunch of parasites that want everything their way.

People claiming they will make them pay forever, who the fcuk do you think you are? The Viper?

AltAccount

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

I honestly couldn't give a toss.

If a person has a large enough claim it is often cheaper to stay off the road for 5 years rather than be subservient to a bunch of parasites that want everything their way.

People claiming they will make them pay forever, who the fcuk do you think you are? The Viper?

Relax there Whippy, you're taking this all a bit personal!