Fancy your insurance company monitoring you?

biko

Having a browse on the various insurance sites as it's getting that time of year.

I stumble upon Axa.ie's DriveSave.

What is DriveSave?
We will install a small box inside your car. This box will relay back to us information about your driving. We can then base your premium on your own driving ability - pay for how you drive, not how others drive

The Unit will measure and record all of your driving characteristics, including speed, distance, cornering and stopping force. A summary of this will appear on your Drivesave Customer Portal.

Now, is this a good idea? I suppose for me it could be as I usually don't speed much and would be a fairly safe driver (no bangs ever).
Suppose the idea of being monitored is putting me off a bit but then again if it helps "personalise" my insurance according to my own driving I suppose it could be good.

Here's the kicker though:
Including web discount for Comprehensive I get €436.53
Now if I tick the little box for DriveSave the price jumps up to €529.55!
Am I supposed to pay about €100 for the privilege to get monitored, wtf!

Edit, explained in post 12..

bobin fudge

be like doing your driving test, everytime you set inside your car

dgt

Eh, no. No monitoring please

Ardennes1944

Not this again!

PrzemoF

The Big Brother is watching you... I'd not do it even if they gave me insurance for free.

Another thing is how they are measuring the parameters i.e. staying within speed limit, but accelerating hard will give you better discount then soft acceleration, but with speeding sometimes? It's like invitation to play a game, but you don't know the rules and you have to trust that the rules are OK.

Scortho

If I made my car insurance cheaper I'd go for it alright. I drive a polo! Hardly the fastest thing to drive. That said Itd have to make it significantly cheaper! At least 20%! At least I'm not getting punished for the actions of some muppet my own age

Edit:
Just did mine there! Not only did it cost me 300 more than my current policy, by ticking the box it only decreased their quote by a measly 20 euro! A measly 1.8% to have my driving monitored? At a more expensive price than my current policy? Eh no thanks!

fasttalkerchat

biko wrote: »

Here's the kicker though:
Including web discount for Comprehensive I get €436.53
Now if I tick the little box for DriveSave the price jumps up to €529.55!
Am I supposed to pay about €100 for the privilege to get monitored, wtf!

I would imagine someone paying more would get a discount. eg. €1000 would be €800.
For you, the cost of the equipment is greater than the saving.

piston

Nice idea in theory but it's giving drivers a piece of rope to hang themselves with.

If they see something like heavy braking, they could potentially conclude you are a dangerous driver but you were actually taking avoiding action when a drunk falls of the pavement.

ThisRegard

Norwich Union trialed it years ago in the UK and I think it's common enough over there now.

Mar4ix

it would make everyone drive like 90 years old grandma with micra. ... thats what insurance try to get. they not give a sh1te about anyones safety, they are looking for strong and regular income. without any payout and hassle. They would be delighted if you buy insurance, and keep car parked.

Mr Benevolent

Not a fupping chance would I have a black box fitted just to save a few euro.

biko

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I would imagine someone paying more would get a discount. eg. €1000 would be €800.
For you, the cost of the equipment is greater than the saving.

Installation is free acc to the website.

piston wrote: »

Nice idea in theory but it's giving drivers a piece of rope to hang themselves with.
If they see something like heavy braking, they could potentially conclude you are a dangerous driver but you were actually taking avoiding action when a drunk falls of the pavement.

Axa.ie website wrote:

We know that sudden hard breaking is occasionally necessary, this will not be counted against you. We will consider your driving against data collected from other drivers.

I actually rang to inquire and it turns out that because I had entered an age over 17 to 24 the computer gave me a wrong quote.
www.axa.ie/Promotions/Drivesave doesn't mention any ages on the page so an honest mistake by me.

I did a quote and gave my age as 22
Comp €741.66
Drivesave €730.32

Seems if you go outside the age group the computer fecks up.
Crap programming and bad testing of that computer system...

dr.fuzzenstein

So your next meeting with the insurance would be along the lines of "Yeees, weeel, we don't quite like what we're seeing here. On the 3rd you accelerated a tad hard and I really don't like those G-forces on the 15th. Your premium is going up by 20%"
Insurance companies don't give a damn about anyone, they just want a handy tool to beat us over the head with and jack up our premiums.
Soon there will be limiters.
Imaging having a camera pointed at you, whilst being monitored in real time for your every move behind the wheel, in your car that's now limited to 60 km/h, with someone's hand on the button that kills your engine if you go over your 12 points whilst paying per KM and having points and fines applied in real time for every tiny mistake.
Because that's where this is leading. No thanks to the total surveillance society.

beazee

Confused.com + MyDrive (Company that developed mobile app which can be installed and used on iPhone and android mobile devices to measure your driving behaviour) offer a free app for trial*

http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/motormate

*it's locked for UK unfortunately ;(

Yakuza

Not in a million years would I allow such a device in my car.

How does it work if you've someone else on the policy using the car, or you lend it out to someone (who's driving it on their policy) - are they subject to the same restrictions? Can you switch it off when appropriate? I doubt it very much.

I'm surprised the high horse brigade haven't appeared yet - "you should never be going over the speed limit or accelerating hard" waa waa waa.

Reg'stoy

Damn insurance companies, next they'll want us to fit smoke alarms in our homes, ba*tards :mad:. Ever since my wife caved in to their false promises, I now walk around with naked flames going from room to room with no concern for safety where as before these 'safety' features I wouldn't dare leave an electrial appliance plugged in before going to bed.

Maybe those worried about big brother don't know that tinfoil blocks the signal.

If you want the savings, give it a go; if you don't, don't simples.

mickdw

Ive a nice tractor that the gadget could be fitted to when nobody is looking. Top speed 28.

Indricotherium

Scortho wrote: »

If I made my car insurance cheaper I'd go for it alright. I drive a polo! Hardly the fastest thing to drive. That said Itd have to make it significantly cheaper! At least 20%! At least I'm not getting punished for the actions of some muppet my own age

Edit:
Just did mine there! Not only did it cost me 300 more than my current policy, by ticking the box it only decreased their quote by a measly 20 euro! A measly 1.8% to have my driving monitored? At a more expensive price than my current policy? Eh no thanks!

I presume once there was a years worth of data the savings would be more significant.

SouperComputer

Progressive over in the US have a similar scheme. The device in that case just logs speed/distance and time. They were looking at the hours\time you drive and how often you accelerate or brake hard. You could login online and see your progress day-by-day. Most important thing was "hard stops". Any deceleration in excess of 7mph/s and you get dinked for it, you get an allowance, but the closer you are to zero in hard stops the better. Also I think speeds in excess of 70mph counted. It didnt track location, so the posted speed limited were irrelevant.

Worked well for us except in the car that had a speedo signal that would suddenly drop, invoking a hard stop and also spinning wheels in snow did same, when the came to rest.

Indricotherium

I also imagine the data collected would be pretty rudimentary.

Speed vs speed limit

Mileage

Where you drive.

Taking things like g forces and acceleration into account would be pretty drastic for what is a pretty conservative industry.

That might be the plan further down the road (ahah), but for now I'd say it'll just be confirming the info you already give insurance companies when you sign up.

Yeah why not?

visual

why give the insurance company another reason to attempt to put up your premium
your history is the amount of claims made against the insurance policy.
Even on first year with or without a monitoring device everyone should be treated equal after first year it should be on your record of claims you made or made against you.
Its like penalty points shouldn't be the insurance companies business but they have made it theirs so they can push up premiums
as far as I'm concerned its a money racket why given them more rolls of the dice when your looking for a fair price.

Capt'n Midnight

Don't all cars in Russia have cameras now ?

And all trucks in Germany have GPS ?


It's only a matter of time before GPS monitoring is more common , they'll bring it in for road tolling - talk of it in the UK

Reg'stoy

visual wrote: »

why give the insurance company another reason to attempt to put up your premium
your history is the amount of claims made against the insurance policy.
Even on first year with or without a monitoring device everyone should be treated equal after first year it should be on your record of claims you made or made against you.
Its like penalty points shouldn't be the insurance companies business but they have made it theirs so they can push up premiums
as far as I'm concerned its a money racket why given them more rolls of the dice when your looking for a fair price.

They're in the business of risk assessment, if you drive while on the phone, don't wear a seatbelt and have been caught speeding; well then you are a higher risk. Your premium is based on all available factors, Age, Car/engine size, Job, Location and number of points.

They wouldn't stay in business too long if they didn't look at the most obvious data for risk assessment.

visual

they are in the insurance business where they insure large volume of customers knowing a smaller number will have a claim.. the balance between what taken in and claims paid out = profit.

If you think its really all about risk then living in a flood area would be listed ??

The risks that insurance companies come up with are all related to making additional profit... charging 7K for a young male driver in a 1 liter car had less to do with the risk and more to do with profiteering

1 liter cars aren't safer than a 2 liter cars, petrol isn't safer than diesel but these risks are ignored.

Penalty points can be given out for may reasons including not displaying road tax. while this might not be right it is not an insurance risk.

So while we discuss risk what is risk to an insurance company,
reduced profits . This is the same risk all business run and if you walked into a shop to buy milk would you like to be charged different prices based on shop assistant thoughts. May be over simple example but it makes the point.

We need to question big business and be prepared to call them on it when its wrong.
And when insurance companies make a claim that its a risk they need to charge for let them use proof of paid out claims rather then just take their word.

challengemaster

I wonder how they'd take going sideways around corners.. :pac:

srsly78

This is not new in Ireland, has been on offer from certain insurance companies for years now (not sure which sorry). I know some people that had it, would beep loudly if you went over the speed limit.

SouperComputer

challengemaster wrote: »

I wonder how they'd take going sideways around corners.. :pac:

You'd probably throw a hard stop when you stop the back wheels spinning
The device im talking about plugs into the OBD II (computer diagnostic) port. It just logs the parameters above and sends them daily via GSM. It doesnt track G force, but if a decelleration of more than 7MPH per second (I think it was 7, not sure) is noted, then you get a hard stop

Reg'stoy

visual wrote: »

they are in the insurance business where they insure large volume of customers knowing a smaller number will have a claim.. the balance between what taken in and claims paid out = profit.

HAVEN'T A BALDIES what you're saying?

visual wrote: »

If you think its really all about risk then living in a flood area would be listed ??

If you live on certain streets in certain Towns you don't get home insurance due to repeated flooding.

visual wrote: »

The risks that insurance companies come up with are all related to making additional profit... charging 7K for a young male driver in a 1 liter car had less to do with the risk and more to do with profiteering

7K....really

visual wrote: »

1 liter cars aren't safer than a 2 liter cars, petrol isn't safer than diesel but these risks are ignored.

Acceleration, 0-60, top speed, etc... many reasons why statistically speaking a 2 litre car is considered more of an insurance risk, as for petrol/diesel...?

visual wrote: »

Penalty points can be given out for may reasons including not displaying road tax. while this might not be right it is not an insurance risk.

Would the person who doesn't pay road tax, be more likely or less likely to service their car correctly...just asking

visual wrote: »

So while we discuss risk what is risk to an insurance company,
reduced profits . This is the same risk all business run and if you walked into a shop to buy milk would you like to be charged different prices based on what the shop assistant thoughts. May be over simple example but it makes the point.

AGAIN HAVEN'T A BALDIES?..... but......nope I've got a nosebleed.

visual wrote: »

We need to question big business and be prepared to call them on it when its wrong.
And when insurance companies make a claim that its a risk they need to charge for let them use proof of paid out claims rather then just take their word.

Insurance works this way, it's spread over everyone ok! but not everyone is charged the same (risk). You have an accident, insurance pays out (possibily '000K ) your next premium does not recoup this amount, but rather reflects your increased risk. By your thinking if you have an accident should your insurance go up by '00K rather than hundreds.

Yakuza

I have some actuarial training, and one of the things drummed in at the statistics classes is that drawing inferences from a small sample size (in this case basing a premium on what is observed when you and you alone are driving your car) not necessarily a good thing. Small sample sizes lead to large variances in estimates and possibly a bad inference from the data. You need a large sample size to produce a statistically unbiased set of data. Unless you drive like Miss Daisy, you'd probably be better off not having one of these in your car!

SouperComputer

Yakuza wrote: »

I have some actuarial training, and one of the things drummed in at the statistics classes is that drawing inferences from a small sample size (in this case basing a premium on what is observed when you and you alone are driving your car) not necessarily a good thing. Small sample sizes lead to large variances in estimates and possibly a bad inference from the data. You need a large sample size to produce a statistically unbiased set of data. Unless you drive like Miss Daisy, you'd probably be better off not having one of these in your car!

I think it depends on how its being offered to you. In our case we already had a very competitive quote and had an opportunity to bring it down further by using this device for a month. So we used it for a month and got an additional "discount". There was also no risk of the quote going up if I drove the bejasis out of the car while it was in there.

Iwannahurl

Black Box and DriveCam-type event recording ought to be standard, perhaps.

Or at least an option for those who want cheaper insurance and better driving behaviour from people who use their car, eg their teenage offspring.