PIA: KHI - SNN - JFK thrice weekly

donvito99

From a poster on Airliners

Its now conirmed SNN is coming back according to tender at PK website, JFK flights will be routed via there thrice weeklly.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5664611/#17

Nice for SNN to have drummed up this type of business already, hopefully others might follow suit.

Here's the tender; http://www.piac.aero/cms/tenders/1783_Tender%20for%20SNN.pdf

imurdaddy

donvito99 wrote: »

From a poster on Airliners



http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5664611/#17

Nice for SNN to have drummed up this type of business already, hopefully others might follow suit.

Here's the tender; http://www.piac.aero/cms/tenders/1783_Tender%20for%20SNN.pdf

Great news! on top of the chicago service it will be good for the airport and area.

I'm sure more to follow also.

christy c

Great news for Shannon, a step in the right direction.

Will we be able to book flights from Shannon or is it just stopping for the pre clearance?

donvito99

christy c wrote: »

Great news for Shannon, a step in the right direction.

Will we be able to book flights from Shannon or is it just stopping for the pre clearance?

I think its just pre-clearance. PIA would need 5th freedom rights or some sort of permission of that nature to allow that.

smurfjed

Is it 5th freedom or cabotage?

smurfjed

imurdaddy

donvito99 wrote: »

I think its just pre-clearance. PIA would need 5th freedom rights or some sort of permission of that nature to allow that.

Still hopefully more airlines will use the pre-clearance setup and services at SNN,

highlydebased

The tender has stipulation about check-in and bag delivery so that MIGHT mean something, or it might just be formality for the sake of tender

donvito99

highlydebased wrote: »

The tender has stipulation about check-in and bag delivery so that MIGHT mean something, or it might just be formality for the sake of tender

You're right there. What's the current arrangement at Manchester?

highlydebased

donvito99 wrote: »

You're right there. What's the current arrangement at Manchester?

It is possible to book onto their flights at MAN

Ennisman

PIA tried this in 1999 but abandoned the plan. 29 pax turned back in Shannon and not allowed onto US. Maybe things have changed.

Davidth88

Ennisman wrote: »

PIA tried this in 1999 but abandoned the plan. 29 pax turned back in Shannon and not allowed onto US. Maybe things have changed.

This actually crossed my mind , having been stuck at Newark in the queues for INS where an Air India flight had landed just in front of us.

How big is the US pre-clearance area in SNN ?

Ennisman

They've pulled back on operating hours but if the business was there, it would be big enough to deal with several flights a day.

TPMP

Any idea which type of aircraft we can expect to see?

highlydebased

TPMP wrote: »

Any idea which type of aircraft we can expect to see?

777

L1011

Ennisman wrote: »

PIA tried this in 1999 but abandoned the plan. 29 pax turned back in Shannon and not allowed onto US. Maybe things have changed.

Same people should be rejected in JFK if consistent rules are applied, so having them rejected in SNN should be no different - less distance to ferry them back if anything.

Local traffic isn't much use unless they do the return trip via SNN also, one way tickets aren't that useful.

mojave

MYOB wrote: »

Same people should be rejected in JFK if consistent rules are applied, so having them rejected in SNN should be no different - less distance to ferry them back if anything.

Less distance but more hassle. At JFK they would have a 777 of their own waiting to return to Pakistan within a few hours. At Shannon they'd have to arrange connecting flights back to Pakistan on other carriers.

These flights are great news - fantastic to see Shannon winning new passenger tech stop business even in 2013.

Jamie2k9

It will be 3 weekly.

USPC will not be an issue because flights arrive at 10.50 and depart at 12.50.

Ennisman

It 'might' be 3 times weekly.

They have to get permission from Irish and US Governments yet.

Every little bit for Shannon is a bonus.

CaptainSkidmark

I would have taught the return leg is via SNN also and the PAX go back on that flight if they dont make the cut. I cant imagine them being sent on to JFK just to go straight back to Lahore

Ennisman

No talk of stop on the return leg. Outbound flight stopping for CBP. No need on the way home.

murphaph

Who would be liable to pay for the flight to Pakistan if CBP reject them at Shannon?
Who would be liable to pay for the flight to Pakistan if CBP reject them at JFK?

Is it the US government or the airline that pays to send someone home?

Ennisman

The airline has to cover the cost. In 1999, when they tried to do this originally, 29 pax were sent back. The cost to the airline, as far as I know, was $4,500 per pax. PIA was also concerned with the delays to the flight because the bags have to be removed.

Flier

Ennisman wrote: »

The airline has to cover the cost. In 1999, when they tried to do this originally, 29 pax were sent back. The cost to the airline, as far as I know, was $4,500 per pax. PIA was also concerned with the delays to the flight because the bags have to be removed.

Yeah you're right there. The airline pays regardless of weather it's SNN or JFK, but the hassle of off loading pax at SNN must be an issue. Between the interogation at CBP and then finding the bags you could be looking at delays easily upto an hour. Thats not a great service for the rest of the pax, especially if many of them will be expecting to make a connection at JFK. Not sure if the ESTA would reduce the number of inads, but (and I don't know) I presume pakistan isn't part of the visa waiver program, so that doesn't apply.
What kind of baggage system does the 777 have? How easy is it to get bags off?

westdub

Flier wrote: »

What kind of baggage system does the 777 have? How easy is it to get bags off?

I thought they would have to unload the baggage anyway.. I cant see the customs just looking at the people and letting their bags through unchecked...

Flier

westdub wrote: »

I thought they would have to unload the baggage anyway.. I cant see the customs just looking at the people and letting their bags through unchecked...

No, Pax check in as normal and their bags are loaded. When the get to CBP, if the officer has a query he can ask to see the bag. Then the fun starts and you have to off load that bag/or bags. Or the officer can flat out refuse entry, and then it's bags off time again. If you have even one or two pax who the CBP guys are interested in, it can cause significant delays. (Also they're usually the ones that come through last - Murphy's Law!)

E.S.T.

Seems a bit weird that people would go through customs with their checked baggage still on board the aircraft. Isn't the whole point of customs that you are presenting yourself and your items for inspection? They don't even leave you into the US on a bus without unloading your baggage and each person take ownership of their property.

galwayjohn89

E.S.T. wrote: »

Seems a bit weird that people would go through customs with their checked baggage still on board the aircraft. Isn't the whole point of customs that you are presenting yourself and your items for inspection? They don't even leave you into the US on a bus without unloading your baggage and having the person take ownership of the luggage.

But in Ireland & Canada, when going to America, you don't present yourself to customs with your bag. They only see a photo (in Canada, 99% sure its the same in Ireland). So it's no different from all the other flights going from Ireland to America

Flier

At check-in, a picture is taken of your bag. You fill in a customs declaration. At CBP, you are asked to identify your bag from the photo (which is linked to your boarding pass). So that is taken as you identifying your bag. If the customs officer wants to see inside your bag, they get it off the plane.
Normally going through customs, there is no reason for a bag search, so the vast majority go through without issue.

E.S.T.

Vuzuggu wrote: »

But in Ireland & Canada, when going to America, you don't present yourself to customs with your bag. They only see a photo (in Canada, 99% sure its the same in Ireland). So it's no different from all the other flights going from Ireland to America

But US customs are on the ground in Ireland and Canada and have agreements between the governments relating to this. Are US customs going to be on the ground in Pakistan?

Flier

The Pax will clear CBP in SNN. So long as they have a system of photographing the bag and linking that info to the passenger, then the clearance will be done in SNN. Much the same way as BA 1 flight works (LCY - JFK - pre clears in SNN).

E.S.T.

Flier wrote: »

The Pax will clear CBP in SNN. So long as they have a system of photographing the bag and linking that info to the passenger, then the clearance will be done in SNN. Much the same way as BA 1 flight works (LCY - JFK - pre clears in SNN).

I don't think many people on that BA flight have checked baggage but also not sure that they don't just take the checked baggage off to be checked.

I was among the first dozen people off the plane and proceeded down a series of long halls containing dozens of banners proudly exclaiming that Shannon has the first US Customs & Immigration pre-clearance facility. Good for them. I was kind of excited to see how it all worked.

Before entering the queue for C&I there was an agent at the door asking anyone with a checked bag to take a seat in the nice waiting area they had set up. Fortunately I didn’t have any checked bags, so I ended up being the first to the immigration desks.

Link

galwayjohn89

E.S.T. wrote: »

Seems a bit weird that people would go through customs with their checked baggage still on board the aircraft. Isn't the whole point of customs that you are presenting yourself and your items for inspection? They don't even leave you into the US on a bus without unloading your baggage and each person take ownership of their property.

Actually yes you do have a point. Not sure if the US would allow them to photo bags at check in Pakistan

Flier

As far as I know, BA pax don't collect their bags, but I've nothing to do with that operation, so I'm open to correction. EI have flights originating in Dublin, and clearing CBP in SNN and pax do not have to collect their bags.
I can't see why the TSA wouldn't be happy for the photos to originate in pakistan. They can still search who ever they want, just like as if they had arrived directly in JFK.

Shamrock231

Flier wrote: »

As far as I know, BA pax don't collect their bags, but I've nothing to do with that operation, so I'm open to correction. EI have flights originating in Dublin, and clearing CBP in SNN and pax do not have to collect their bags.
I can't see why the TSA wouldn't be happy for the photos to originate in pakistan. They can still search who ever they want, just like as if they had arrived directly in JFK.

Are there any flights that originate in Dublin but use the SNN CBP? I had thought the days of the SNN Stopover were long gone at this stage?

westdub

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Are there any flights that originate in Dublin but use the SNN CBP? I had thought the days of the SNN Stopover were long gone at this stage?

So did I...
According to EI all the flights to the US either clear in Dublin first or on arrival in the US...
http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/movetoterminal2atdublin/usimmigration/

Flier

Wouldn't that be a fine thing! None on the current schedule, not sure what the plan is for the summer (haven't looked tbh). But when it has happened, bags were checked straight thru and not picked up in SNN.

L1011

Flier wrote: »

Wouldn't that be a fine thing! None on the current schedule, not sure what the plan is for the summer (haven't looked tbh). But when it has happened, bags were checked straight thru and not picked up in SNN.

Is this pre- or post- full US CBP?

When we only had immigration preclearance in Shannon that would have been normal as you'd have cleared Customs & Agriculture in the US, with your bags.