How has no radio station closed down ?

JDunphy

How is it that century radio folded years ago but since the economy crashed 5 years ago no station has closed down? Surely stations like 4fm and sunshine that are losing money and have poor listenership should have folded by now.

Lapin

Nova ?

Loafing Oaf

JDunphy wrote: »

How is it that century radio folded years ago but since the economy crashed 5 years ago no station has closed down? Surely stations like 4fm and sunshine that are losing money and have poor listenership should have folded by now.

AFAIK radio stations have a more robust business model than other media operations. I believe the overall number of people listening to radio is holding pretty steady, in contrast to the number of newspaper readers.

Even so, I think media watchers are waiting for the first shoe to drop vis a vis the likes of Phantom and 4FM...

hufpc8w3adnk65

Is 4Fm really in that much trouble?

Knutsack

Don't forget to watch the local stations.

Irish Press plc (De Valera) owned Tipp FM continues to loose it's bollix. How the only commercial local radio station in Tipperary can't wash it's face is beyond me.

Clare FM has posted a small loss in 2011 - 90,000 euro approx.

Those two stations now share the same CEO and will share certain other non broadcasting services.

Thomas Crosbie Holdings, owners of WLR fm, Beat 102 103, Mid West Radio and Red FM is said to be edging closer to making a tough decision on it's financial resturcturing.

Loafing Oaf

And of course we're forgetting the elephant in the room, Newstalk, which AFAIK has never made money. Seemingly it's some sort of trophy asset for Dobbie the house mogul but if he moves to take full control of INM this year, the Broadcasting Authority may force himself to divest himself of it, which would almost certainly mean closure...

Hidalgo

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

AFAIK radio stations have a more robust business model than other media operations. I believe the overall number of people listening to radio is holding pretty steady, in contrast to the number of newspaper readers.

Even so, I think media watchers are waiting for the first shoe to drop vis a vis the likes of Phantom and 4FM...

Even if listenership figures are holding steady could a station still not be in trouble?

With the amount of businesses closed down throughout the country, surely that equals less advertising revenue for radio stations and therefore less money coming through the door.

Loafing Oaf

Hidalgo wrote: »

Even if listenership figures are holding steady could a station still not be in trouble?

With the amount of businesses closed down throughout the country, surely that equals less advertising revenue for radio stations and therefore less money coming through the door.

Of course yes, and I'd be fairly sure we will see radio stations closing down over the next few years. Just putting out that the financial pressures on radio are not as severe as in other areas of the media.

serfboard

Also don't forget that some stations are paying piss-poor or even no money to some presenters - specially the younger ones.

So even though they haven't much revenue coming in the door, there's not a massive wage bill going out the door either.

Knutsack

Yep. That seems to be the business model. Pay 12 grand a year to the 'talent'. if they don't like it, they can try Burger King for a more grandiose lifestyle.

Get some aul lads/ladies who like the sound of their own voices to do stuff like arts or sports commentaries for next to nothing.

And mercilessly expolit young, recently graduated journalists/programme makers in the name of helping them build a CV.

Hidalgo

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Of course yes, and I'd be fairly sure we will see radio stations closing down over the next few years. Just putting out that the financial pressures on radio are not as severe as in other areas of the media.

Yeah I guess if listenership figures remain steady businesses will still advertise on radio as its still an important medium to get your ad out there.
Others will suffer more than radio stations, if a business has to cut back on its advertising costs, radio probably won't be the first.

mike65

Didn't the original station for Carlow/Kilkenny close?

ThisRegard

CKR FM ? What was the nightclub they used to broadcast live from on Friday or Saturday nights I think it was ?

thebeertalking

Think it was The Foundry that CKR used to broadcast from via a UHF link every Friday and Saturday night. Speaking of UHF, I don't know why stations don't make more use of it for Outside Broadcasts. It would be far more preferable to the 'wishy washy' sounding POTS codecs in use now, which, no more than the exploitation of young presenters and staff, is used because it's cheap - not because it's good - and to keep costs low, which brings me back on topic. Phew.

CKR closed as a result of the franchise area change, not because of financial difficulties, though I don't believe it was exactly raking it in either.
KFM were awarded the new Kildare franchise, and KCLR won the Carlow and Kilkenny franchise, much to the disgust of the military wing of Radio Kilkenny, who continue to pine for its existence, even embarking on a broadcast under a temporary license a couple of years back. History and memory play funny tricks on the mind...it wasn't that good lads.

Part of the reason no station has so far failed, is that the BAI has done everything in its power to ensure no station will. Why? Because the BAI has licensed too many stations. Ireland is TINY. Yes, we're well known around the world and have a high 'profile' internationally, but WE ARE TINY, and there are TOO MANY radio stations here, particularly in Dublin.

When Lite FM, now Q102, first launched, there was a proviso that they could not change their format or name or ownership for the first 2 years, just as had been the case previously with Radio Ireland when it launched - now Today FM.
But when Lite FM's melancholic mix of wrist slashing 70's and 80's power ballads failed to draw the attention of Dublin's listeners, and advertisers, the BAI allowed them to change their name and format, just as they had done with Today FM. Although the BAI was the BCI at this point, just to keep the pedants happy.

Then we had Sunshine. I mean Sunshine Mix. I mean Mix 106.8. I mean Country Mix. I mean Sunshine Country Mix 106.8 - or whatever the jingle company is singing this month. A format change, countless name changes (see above) and mostly poor quality voice-tracked output. Gee whiz. A country music station that isn't successful in the thriving metropolis of Dublin - who'd of thought.

Then there's Phantom. Oh dear. The 'phantom menace' of the BAI's licensing ethos rears its ugly head again. I'm not sure what they were thinking here. Personally, I liked Phantom when it was a pirate, but never thought for a second that it could be commercially viable. XFM in London (it's nearest format neighbour) can compete, but that's in a city with, er, 5 / 6 / 7 times the population. Go figure.

There was an interesting article about the history of the station recently (pre and post pirate) by Patrick Freyne called "Phantom 105.2: The pirate that went straight". It's long (much like this post) but is well worth the read if you have time (possibly unlike this post.)

Recent changes to broadcasting / ownership agreements include the 'merger' or whatever term you wish to use, of Clare FM and Tipp FM. Though with their huge accumulated losses, and questionable output, there remains a massive uncertainty that these stations can really pull it around, especially with LIve95 next door making over 650,000 profit last year - how does that happen!

And finally (collective sigh of relief), there's iRadio. A great station. Or at least, it was. Still is, in parts, though some of the new (cheap) on-air 'talent' is letting it down. It originally broadcast from two sites - Galway and Athlone, under i102-104 and i105-107. The Galway studio was closed in 2010, with most programmes being simulcast across the entire 'iRadio' network. Originally, the BAI insisted that iRadio deliver live news to both regions separately, but this has been relaxed in order to cut costs.

So, for now, the BAI has staved off the inevitable and made every effort to stop stations from 'going under'. But for how long more?
You can speculate on their reasons for these actions. If a station fails, there'll be some very sweaty and frustrated shareholders who might feel they have been sold a bucket of steam - maybe it would be possible that one of them would take the BAI to court? If the business plan or franchise area was unable to support the license, then why was it advertised / awarded? I doubt this would stand up in court, but it's a fair question to ask the BAI. The dogs on the street knew that Phantom and Sunshine would never work. The BAI is supposed to be staffed with clever, educated, well-informed people, who know the broadcast industry - and as any solicitor would tell you, I'm sure it is - but how could they make so many mistakes and how can they continue to shift the goalposts and change the rules, purely to support radio stations that can't make money?

And why can't those radio stations make money? As mentioned above, Live95 made a huge profit last year, and given the atrocious trading conditions and an increase in their operating costs of around €300,00 (no wage cuts), was an exceptional achievement.
Contrast that, with successive losses at Clare FM and Tipp FM, who have now joined their toxic debts at the hip. Are these stations really capable of turning things around? You can cut staff, costs, budgets and wages, but eventually you have to start investing in people and programming, and paying your bills, and I personally can't see these stations having the capacity or ability to do so, regardless of how much 'protectionism' the BAi engage in.

Interesting times ahead, and sadly, more enthusiastic, brilliant and talented radio people, out of work.

road_high

ThisRegard wrote: »

CKR FM ? What was the nightclub they used to broadcast live from on Friday or Saturday nights I think it was ?

The Foundry in Carlow I think...

end of the road

ThisRegard wrote: »

CKR FM ? What was the nightclub they used to broadcast live from on Friday or Saturday nights I think it was ?

it was from the foundry of a friday night

LeakyGee

I'd hate to see any station fold. We're a radio nation,its the strongest medium in the country. If any station shuts it's down to really bad management and planning. Music radio is really cheap to do, take FM104 - 8 presenters across 24 hours of radio ( The Ray D'arcy show has 8 people working on it )

JTMan

How has no radio station closed down ?

Answers:
Rich owners, (example: Denis O'Brien)
owners with large cash from the boom, (example: UTV)
owners staying aflot via the banks, (example: Thomas Crosbie Holdings for now) and
the owners are the state. (example: RTE)

TCH stations might be on their last legs, if the Sindo article at the weekend is correct.

L1011

mike65 wrote: »

Didn't the original station for Carlow/Kilkenny close?

Lost its licence in the renewal process, as did Radio Kilkenny and NWR in Sligo. Not quite the same as going bust.

padd b1975

ThisRegard wrote: »

CKR FM ? What was the nightclub they used to broadcast live from on Friday or Saturday nights I think it was ?

I have a vague recollection of one of their DJs running for the Dail, possibly in the '97 election.

I think his name was Christy ?????, he used be on in the mornings in the 'Gerry Ryan' slot.

As far as I recall, he got something like 100 votes:o

Losty Dublin

There was plenty of close shaves over the years. Northern Sound went as good as bust before it launched in 1990 before the then IRTC let it merge with Shannonside. Easy 103 also came close to the wall before it and quasi community station Horizon merged around 1992. CKR would have hit the wall had it's licence been extended while closer to home the then Rock 104 went a while in the mid 90's when it was on a day to day basis. I wonder what happened to it?

Losty Dublin

padd b1975 wrote: »

I have a vague recollection of one of their DJs running for the Dail, possibly in the '97 election.

I think his name was Christy ?????, he used be on in the mornings in the 'Gerry Ryan' slot.

As far as I recall, he got something like 100 votes:o

Christy Walsh was his name.

end of the road

Losty Dublin wrote: »

closer to home the then Rock 104 went a while in the mid 90's when it was on a day to day basis. I wonder what happened to it?

went a while? day to day basis? tell me more
the station is now fm104

SimonMaher

thebeertalking wrote: »

Part of the reason no station has so far failed, is that the BAI has done everything in its power to ensure no station will. Why? Because the BAI has licensed too many stations. Ireland is TINY. Yes, we're well known around the world and have a high 'profile' internationally, but WE ARE TINY, and there are TOO MANY radio stations here, particularly in Dublin.

.......


Then there's Phantom. Oh dear. The 'phantom menace' of the BAI's licensing ethos rears its ugly head again. I'm not sure what they were thinking here. Personally, I liked Phantom when it was a pirate, but never thought for a second that it could be commercially viable. XFM in London (it's nearest format neighbour) can compete, but that's in a city with, er, 5 / 6 / 7 times the population. Go figure.

.......

There was an interesting article about the history of the station recently (pre and post pirate) by Patrick Freyne called "Phantom 105.2: The pirate that went straight". It's long (much like this post) but is well worth the read if you have time (possibly unlike this post.)

.......

Interesting times ahead, and sadly, more enthusiastic, brilliant and talented radio people, out of work.

Some really interesting posts on this topic and fair play to thebeertalking for covering it all so comprehensively and the OP for bringing the topic up.

Couple of things I don't neccesarily agree with him on though, but first my declaration of interest for those who don't know! I was one of the founders of Phantom, its General Manager and a full time presenter up until February 2010 when I was relieved of my duties when Communicorp was given control of the station. I was a shareholder of a company that held shares in Phantom until last year.

Now, to business. I don't agree at all that Ireland has "too many" radio stations. I think Ireland has far too many radio stations trying to operate a business model that is unsustainable though which is quite a different thing.

In any business, the size of the operation has to match the revenues available on a bad day but if everyone is expected to operate at the same business model then come the bad days the changes, dilutions, redundancies etc are inevitable. For example, Phantom in its first couple of years performed very well, turning over more than a million euro in 2008 which is not to shabby for any small business. However, its overheads were more than that.

When the rainy day came, revenue dropped and costs eventually had to be cut and in the end, in Phantoms case, the original owners were bought out and the station is now drip fed by its main benefactor (in this case Communicorp). This has meant that at least some people are still in work in the station and that is a good thing. Long may that continue.

However, the constant downsizing and focus on keeping its head above water has meant the station is a real diluted version of its former self and will, in my opinion, struggle to recover. Recent developments, like the cut in the 20% news and current affairs requirement have helped the bottom line, but not neccesarily the output. The comparison with XFM is interesting, in that under the ownership of a major media group (in this case Global) that its audience has fallen, much like Phantoms and even in a large city like London, it really struggles financially and performs far below the level it did when it was an independent operation years ago.

There is a strong argument to be made that different business models be allowed for different types of radio station. In my view, it is pointless to expect a niche station (be that Phantom, Sunshine or anyone else) to operate at the same level as a general interest station whose potential income is very much higher. Doesn't really happen in any other business - in the regular world, companies have to match their scale to their potential revenues and nobody dictates that an operation has to be of a certain size to be allowed to trade.

The regulator has to decide what it wants in terms of content, output and diversity of ownership and alter its business model level expectations from there.

Simon

JTMan

This week, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland put several licenses out to tender.

Some of the existing radio licenses belong to parties who are less then financially stable. Maybe this tender process might lead to some stations closing?

RadioRetro

Missed this thread first time round.

Good post with SimonMaher, very good points, succinctly put. Some good points, too, from thebeertalking, but I would take exception with some points of view but each to their own and honest opinions are good.

marno21

The recent cut in required 20% current affairs output is long overdue, there's no point in the regional "music driven" youth services having 20% current affairs. It made no sense and the cut to 10% has improved stations (in particular the one I listen to mostly, Beat).
Beat had no talk show, so they had to squeeze in the current affairs output elsewhere. This meant that during the "more music drive" show there was 5 minute news bulletins at 15:50, 16:20, 16:50, 17:20 and 17:50, and a 30 minute news roundup at 18:30. This meant 55 minutes of the drivetime show were being spent on news, and this is before advertising was factored in. Now that there's been a cut on current affairs output, there's now 5 minutes of news at 15:50, 16:55 and 17:50, and 15 minutes at 18:30. The result is a much better show with more music and the right amount of news.

Spin Southwest is another station with a similar problem, the talk show in the middle of the day sounds way out of place on Spin. All morning it's "the most music station", "the most music in the morning" or whatever, then after all that promotion of music, there's 2 hours of talk. Me, and I'd imagine a lot of others who can, flick over to RedFM/Beat/96FM at this stage (I often count myself very lucky that I spend most of my time where I have the radio on that I can pick up at least 3 of Spin/Beat/96FM/RedFM)

With regards to the new licences as outlined above, I really can't see any new stations being licenced, and I'd see it being unlikely that anyone will even make a serious application. With the failure of i105-107 I can't see a new station being licenced in the south east.

JTMan

marno21 wrote: »

With regards to the new licences as outlined above, I really can't see any new stations being licenced, and I'd see it being unlikely that anyone will even make a serious application. With the failure of i105-107 I can't see a new station being licenced in the south east.

There are existing, rather than new, licenses which are out of tender due to the expiry of the existing contracts.

Agreed that there are unlikely to be many new entrants for the existing licenses. The big question is will the existing license holders, many of whom are well under water, even apply to buy a renewed license?

Niles

Knutsack wrote: »

Irish Press plc (De Valera) owned Tipp FM continues to loose it's bollix. How the only commercial local radio station in Tipperary can't wash it's face is beyond me.

Might be the only local one but would it not face considerable competition from Beat?

marno21

Niles wrote: »

Might be the only local one but would it not face considerable competition from Beat?

Tipperary is the one county in Ireland where there was already a sizeable part of the market listening to a community station (Tipp-MWR). Tipperary Mid West Radio's 104.8 can be picked up here in North Cork no bother (North West Cork mind) so it wouldn't surpise me if a lot of Tipp could pick it up and thus it could cause a dent in Tipp FM's listener figures.

Also it's not only Beat, Spin South West covers North Tipp (and most of South Tipp too)

Infoanon

Fungus wrote: »

The big question is will the existing license holders, many of whom are well under water, even apply to buy a renewed license?

The existing stations will reapply - if they wanted out they would have pulled the plug long ago.
For many the only way out is to continue on and hope that the market turns (and then dispose of the station at a profit).

Its a rarity for any station but the incumbrent to have its licence renewed.

I would agree with a lot that Simon Maher has written - I would also be of the view that there are not enough stations and there is room for more stations - once they are allowed operate their own business model.

In my view the 20% rule has been used by the bigger stations to affectively block new entrants.

JTMan

Do you have to pay for a new radio license/license renewal? What is the cost? Thanks.

cml387

marno21 wrote: »

Tipperary is the one county in Ireland where there was already a sizeable part of the market listening to a community station (Tipp-MWR). Tipperary Mid West Radio's 104.8 can be picked up here in North Cork no bother (North West Cork mind) so it wouldn't surpise me if a lot of Tipp could pick it up and thus it could cause a dent in Tipp FM's listener figures.

Also it's not only Beat, Spin South West covers North Tipp (and most of South Tipp too)

The question is why Tipp has two radio stations?

I vaguely remember there was some reason, but I've forgotten

brettmirl

cml387 wrote: »

The question is why Tipp has two radio stations?

I vaguely remember there was some reason, but I've forgotten

It was meant to have three! The IRTC back in the day, issued licenses to Active Link for North Tipp and Suirland for South. Plus Tipp Mid West which covered Cashel and Tipp Town.

Active Link never made it on air, but merged with Suirland to become Tipp FM.

Bebo Rocks

Makenna Lively Spatula wrote: »

Is 4Fm really in that much trouble?

http://radionation.ie/2013/12/11-million-losses-at-classic-hits-4fm/#more-5737

Infoanon

mike65 wrote: »

Didn't the original station for Carlow/Kilkenny close?

No - lost its licence.

While no station has closed , there has been significant changes in the ownership of a number of stations in attempts to avert closure.

Bebo Rocks

Did any station come very near closing down ?

Radioman44

padd b1975 wrote: »

I have a vague recollection of one of their DJs running for the Dail, possibly in the '97 election.

I think his name was Christy ?????, he used be on in the mornings in the 'Gerry Ryan' slot.

As far as I recall, he got something like 100 votes:o

It was Christy Walsh RIP "Hello Caller"... Very unprofessional in presentation BUT it worked. It was the most popular show during the day. It was 869 Votes :-)...

doughef

Radioman44 wrote: »

It was Christy Walsh RIP "Hello Caller"... Very unprofessional in presentation BUT it worked. It was the most popular show during the day. It was 869 Votes :-)...

Poor oul Christy..:)

Wasnt his catch phrase "mornin' all" aswell??
And he always spoke about only having 9 listeners

I can hear the theme tune in my head but dont know the name of it.

Fuzzy Clam

Mr. G wrote: »

Well Nova did.

4fm would have been close I would say. But I cant see any commercial station winding down anytime soon to be honest.

Tell us more about Nova.

Fuzzy Clam

Mr. G wrote: »

Well Nova did.

4fm would have been close I would say. But I cant see any commercial station winding down anytime soon to be honest.

Tell us more about Nova.

Losty Dublin

Infoanon wrote: »

No - lost its licence.

While no station has closed , there has been significant changes in the ownership of a number of stations in attempts to avert closure.

There actually have been casualties over the years. Century closed in 1991, Horizon and Easy 103 were allowed to merge a commercial and a community based licence into what is now East Coast Radio. Radio Kilkenny was also closed down, Radio Limerick had it's licence revoked for numerous breaches, North West is also no more as well. Shannonside and Northern Sound were separate entities; cases were pleaded and they merged in 1995.

And this is not giving mention to some of the community type stations that have bitten the dust; Tallaght FM, 9-7-11 FM, West Dublin Community Radio and Dublin Weekend Radio to name but a few or the many stations that are a figment of their IRTC applications in 1989-1990.

Mr Williams

Real 80s closed down.

Mr. G

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Tell us more about Nova.

Just to clarify, I was referring to the previous pirate station, which would have been known enough around Dublin. This pirate station is no longer broadcasting.

Radio Nova 100FM are still in existence and is still in business. As far as I know, they never came near to closing down.

Apologies for the confusion. I suppose a pirate station doesn't really matter, but there are not many stations that have closed. It would have been one of those memories more than anything else.

ford fiesta

Mr Williams wrote: »

Real 80s closed down.

Shame:(

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly

JDunphy wrote: »

How is it that century radio folded years ago .

The biggest reason for Centurys demise was the fact that very few people could actually hear it.

Legally they were dependent on a competitor (RTE) to distribute their signal and there were regular disputes regarding how much they should be paying. The inevitable result is that their signal/coverage was absolutly woeful which was a shame because their programming was for the most part actually not that bad .

Radio Ireland/Today FM had the sense to insist on performance clauses in their contract with RTENL but after the embarrasment of seeing their flagship station go under the IRTC/BCI/BAI have ever since been terrified about letting any of their licencees (with the exception of the odd inconsequential community station) go under to the extent of allowing all of them to merge with neighbouring franchise areas and/or commit the most flagrant breaches of the promises made in their licence applications and abandoning all meaningful controls on ownership.

In a healthy functioning market underperforming stations would ocassionaly go to the wall (or have their licences revoked for failing to live up to conditions) and licence applications would be invited in replace said stations in a timely manner.

Bongalongherb

And also the fact that a lot of radio stations are taking on interns of which they don't have to pay. This is part of the reason.