Cork to Croatia Route Recommendations

t1mm

Hi there,

I'm in the planning stages of cycling to Croatia this summer after finishing college, beginning at the start of June. I'm no tour de france candidate at the moment but I'm going to put in a good bit of training in the meantime. I'd hope to cover an average of 100km a day, and I'm trying to keep it as cheap as possible and do as much wild camping as I can. I'd like to cross some of the Alps also for the scenery and challenge, but I don't want to spend a month cycling up vertical inclines either. I speak acceptable French and I'd ideally like to avoid big cities (a synonym for expense!).

I guess the big two questions are:

1. What route to take through France.
2. Where to cross the alps. I had been thinking about Geneva or Lucerne (Switz) -> Lugano (Italy).

I'll be getting the ferry from Ringaskiddy to Roscoff, so any tips on which routes to take anywhere along the way from there would be fantastic

Ryath

Brother did it in 2010 I went with him for the first week. He didn't cross the alps though. I'll pm a link to his blog don't want to stick it up here with out his permission. Blorg did it to Istanbull a few years ago thread on here and blog on crazy guy on a bike worth searching for.

t1mm

Thanks very much Ryath - I'll go and read his blog Cheers!

Ryath

Found Blorgs he didn't pass through Croatia buts it's still a good read.
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1&doc_id=7459&v=ML

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Could try some of this route:
http://en.eurovelo6.org/?set_language=en

Well worth looking at:
http://www.eurovelo.org/

Tonyandthewhale

I did the similar route back in 2009 just after the leaving cert. Got the ferry to Cherbourg, headed southeast through alencon, orleans and the Loire Valley, crossed the Rhone and skirted the jura mountains and into Switerland via Geneve. Did the lenght of Switzerland (sticking to the northern plateau, avoiding the major climbes), through liechenstein and over the Aalborg pass (at least I think that's what it was called) and then downhill 100km to Innsbruck. Brenner pass (which is very easy by the standards of an alpine pass if you're worried about climbing) into Italy, crossed back into Austria then back into Italy and ended up in Trieste, crossed the border into Slovenia but didn't actually make it to Croatia (tried to but got lost on the way to the border).

There are a fair few routes you could take, we chose ours on the basis that it was pretty straight forward, was climby but not too climby and I had an uncle in Innsbruck who I wanted to visit.

Is this your first tour?

t1mm

Thanks a million for the replies everyone! Tonyandthewhale, your route sounds very interesting. How long did your trip take? Do you mind me asking how much you spent? Do you have a blog or a journal of your trip?

It is indeed my first tour

Tonyandthewhale

It took about 2 and a half weeks doing about 100km a day on average with a rest day in Geneve and another in Innsbruck. We spent between 10 and 20e a day (food and accommodation) and camped everynight, usually in campsites but with some wild-camping.
In more recent tours I've largely given up on paying for a place to sleep and I know bring a small camping stove which means food is less expensive and more varied so don't take 10 to 20e as an ideal figure, nowadays I normally max at about 10e a day for touring in western europe.

I don't have a blog or journal but feel free to pm me if you have any questions that don't get covered in this thread.

t1mm

Cheers! I'll be going down the wild camping with a gas stove route myself hopefully. Think I'll do a short tour in Cork/Kerry before I head off to test out all the gear and highlight anything I'm forgetting. What item were you really glad you brought, and what did you regret not bringing?

Would you have any practical tips on route planning? (not from a sightseeing perspective). For example following rivers / canals, using only particular roads (i think "G" is the letter that designates low-traffic ones in France), and so on?

Any tours planned for this summer yourself?

Tonyandthewhale

What item were you really glad you brought, and what did you regret not bringing?

You'll figure out yourself fairly quickly what you need to bring and what's unnecessary if you're methodical in your packing and do a short domestic warm-up tour. I would say don't be afraid to cut stuff out. You'd be surprised how little you can pack and if you realise there's something you desperately need you can usually pick it up along the way. Having empty space in your panniers will make things a lot easier when the road points up and it also means you can carry more food and water when you need to as well as having space for souvenirs. Water-proof panniers are dead handy though. Although breathable panniers combined with a couple of water-proof stuff-sacks are arguably even better.

Would you have any practical tips on route planning

I'd say keep it simple. Small roads are nice to ride on but are often easy to get lost on. Big roads are easier to find but not as nice to ride on. I try and go for a happy medium and I usually avoid bike paths and the like unless I've heard good things about them as they usually take the scenic route and you never know where you might end up or how many unexpected hills you might have to climb.
Ride with gps is a good site for meticulously mapping out your route. You can lay out your route, colour code it day by day and get information on altitude and gradient. Then when you roll off the ferry, take out your compass and your road map of France and just head vaguely south-east until you're somewhere else.

Any tours planned for this summer yourself?

Nothing planned per say but I'll probably spend a few weeks or months on the road between now and next autumn.

t1mm

Water-proof panniers are dead handy though. Although breathable panniers combined with a couple of water-proof stuff-sacks are arguably even better.

Think I'll go for cheaper breathable ones with some dry bags that I have from sailing etc. Can't justify spending 175+ euro on Ortliebs for this summer trip!

Could try some of this route:
http://en.eurovelo6.org/?set_language=en

Well worth looking at:
http://www.eurovelo.org/

Thanks for these links - I'll definitely be looking into no. 6 and perhaps no. 1 also Cheers!

zico10

I'm far from a touring veteran, but I do happen to be the brother that Ryath speaks of.

If you're planning on going over The Alps, you'll be taking a much different route through France than the one I took. So I can't really advise you there, other than to say I only ever used road maps for plotting my route. On occasion it was difficult figure out exactly where I was and what road I should take, but I never felt like ripping up my map and trowing it in the bin. Whereas I often wanted to fnck a Garmin I used to own out my car window when it led me astray.

There were times I did get lost, especially in big cities, but if you want to avoid these, then it's not something you need to worry about. If you have a GPS unit already I'd take it, but at least for me personally they are not essential. Depending on the time frame you're giving yourself as well, and unless you have to be in exact places on exact dates, I think a methodical day by day plan is also unnecessary. You'll be on an adventure, just go with it.

If you speak acceptable French, you should be fine for communicating there. If travelling solo, you'll find that most people you encounter are very welcoming and eager to help. If unsure whether you're camping on privately owned land, asking the nearest house for permission is a good idea. Just for civility's sake, if nothing else. They might even let you pitch a tent in their front garden, if you ask nicely.

On wild camping in general; it only costs in or around €3 to pitch a tent in a proper campsite. Hygiene or personal cleanliness do not need to be at the top of your list of priorities whilst on a cycling tour, but there is a lot to be said for a warm shower at the end of full day in the saddle. You'll be able to get one at a campsite, whereas if wild camping the best option would probably be to just roll up and go to sleep. The time of year you're going means you're going to sweating a lot. And if, as I'm guessing you are, you're the typical white skinned Irishman, daily applications of sunscreen are going to be essential. You could take a dunk in a river at the end of each day, but I don't think wild camping night after night is going to be doable.

Also I didn't bring any cooking equipment. If you're happy to eat cold food, you'll find plenty of Lidls, Aldis, or other discount stores along the road. It will be hard to carry all the water off with you, but €10 spent here, would buy you enough food for two days. Just bring a collapsible pyrex bowl, a sharp knife, a spoon, and a fork, and you'll be able to eat like king.

Canis Lupus

You do NOT need as many items of clothing you might think you do.

Wildcamping FTW, babywipes by the bucketload to stop your crotch rotting off if it's a few days between showers. 5 days out without showering/washing clothes is really the maximum you should allow. By day 5 you'll feel minging and your clothes will stand up on their own.

Finding a campsite by a river/lake is f*cking awesome after a day on the bike.

Ortlieb water bags are pretty awesome or alternatively, seeing as you'll be in civilisation bungee straps to hold down water bottles. (always try to hit up Aldi/Lidl if you must buy water it's wahay cheaper than other chains but don't feel bad about rocking up to a house. Even if you can't speak the language waving an empty water bottle is pretty universal).

Don't always sweat the distance. Most nights you wild camp you can find an adequate spot. Every once in a while you'll discover a perfect place, flat, with shade and covered from the road (and as above lake/river optional extra). Take the opportunity on a good day to get off your bike and set up camp and enjoy just relaxing out in the middle of nowhere with a book, it's good for soul.

Oh and wide brimmed hat is a must regardless of whether you think you look stupid in one or not.

t1mm

I'm far from a touring veteran, but I do happen to be the brother that Ryath speaks of.

If you're planning on going over The Alps, you'll be taking a much different route through France than the one I took. So I can't really advise you there, other than to say I only ever used road maps for plotting my route. On occasion it was difficult figure out exactly where I was and what road I should take, but I never felt like ripping up my map and trowing it in the bin. Whereas I often wanted to fnck a Garmin I used to own out my car window when it led me astray.

There were times I did get lost, especially in big cities, but if you want to avoid these, then it's not something you need to worry about. If you have a GPS unit already I'd take it, but at least for me personally they are not essential. Depending on the time frame you're giving yourself as well, and unless you have to be in exact places on exact dates, I think a methodical day by day plan is also unnecessary. You'll be on an adventure, just go with it.

If you speak acceptable French, you should be fine for communicating there. If travelling solo, you'll find that most people you encounter are very welcoming and eager to help. If unsure whether you're camping on privately owned land, asking the nearest house for permission is a good idea. Just for civility's sake, if nothing else. They might even let you pitch a tent in their front garden, if you ask nicely.

On wild camping in general; it only costs in or around €3 to pitch a tent in a proper campsite. Hygiene or personal cleanliness do not need to be at the top of your list of priorities whilst on a cycling tour, but there is a lot to be said for a warm shower at the end of full day in the saddle. You'll be able to get one at a campsite, whereas if wild camping the best option would probably be to just roll up and go to sleep. The time of year you're going means you're going to sweating a lot. And if, as I'm guessing you are, you're the typical white skinned Irishman, daily applications of sunscreen are going to be essential. You could take a dunk in a river at the end of each day, but I don't think wild camping night after night is going to be doable.

Also I didn't bring any cooking equipment. If you're happy to eat cold food, you'll find plenty of Lidls, Aldis, or other discount stores along the road. It will be hard to carry all the water off with you, but €10 spent here, would buy you enough food for two days. Just bring a collapsible pyrex bowl, a sharp knife, a spoon, and a fork, and you'll be able to eat like king.

Thanks for your advice zico10, your wise words are much appreciated I think I'll bring some simple cooking gear - a pot/pan and one of those small gas stoves. I guess a tin of beans or something along those lines would be welcome here and there, and they shouldn't add much weight. I'm working my way through your blog by the way, great read, pity about your knee though man! Any future endeavours planned?

You do NOT need as many items of clothing you might think you do.

Wildcamping FTW, babywipes by the bucketload to stop your crotch rotting off if it's a few days between showers. 5 days out without showering/washing clothes is really the maximum you should allow. By day 5 you'll feel minging and your clothes will stand up on their own.

Finding a campsite by a river/lake is f*cking awesome after a day on the bike.

Ortlieb water bags are pretty awesome or alternatively, seeing as you'll be in civilisation bungee straps to hold down water bottles. (always try to hit up Aldi/Lidl if you must buy water it's wahay cheaper than other chains but don't feel bad about rocking up to a house. Even if you can't speak the language waving an empty water bottle is pretty universal).

Don't always sweat the distance. Most nights you wild camp you can find an adequate spot. Every once in a while you'll discover a perfect place, flat, with shade and covered from the road (and as above lake/river optional extra). Take the opportunity on a good day to get off your bike and set up camp and enjoy just relaxing out in the middle of nowhere with a book, it's good for soul.

Oh and wide brimmed hat is a must regardless of whether you think you look stupid in one or not.

Thanks for posting Canis Lupus! I reckon aiming to stay at a real campsite around every 5 days could be the best option for me. I know 3 or 4 euro isn't that much but if you multiply it by 40 or 50 then it could go a long way spent otherwise.

Your wild camping in a nice spot with a book description sounds very appealing Do you have any touring journals of your own that I could take a read through?

Seaneh

Is route 6 pretty much the only one that has proper info online?

I've been searching for info on route 1 for ages now but it's fecking hard fin anything.

t1mm

Seaneh wrote: »

Is route 6 pretty much the only one that has proper info online?

I've been searching for info on route 1 for ages now but it's fecking hard fin anything.

Agreed. I guess you have to buy one of their maps or something to get all the details?

Planet X

Seaneh wrote: »

Is route 6 pretty much the only one that has proper info online?

I've been searching for info on route 1 for ages now but it's fecking hard fin anything.

Have a look here, I have this book but it only goes a relatively short way along the Euro routes from Roscoff.....


http://www.reddogbooks.com/gw.html

zico10

t1mm wrote: »

Thanks for your advice zico10, your wise words are much appreciated I think I'll bring some simple cooking gear - a pot/pan and one of those small gas stoves. I guess a tin of beans or something along those lines would be welcome here and there, and they shouldn't add much weight. I'm working my way through your blog by the way, great read, pity about your knee though man! Any future endeavours planned?

Thanks for reading. My knee though? What are you talking about?

I spent a month cycling around Thailand a little less than a year ago. It was on a road bike and I packed very lightly indeed. There's a blog on crazyguyonabike about that one as well.
I had planned to start a cycle from Thailand, through Malaysia, and on into Singapore a few weeks ago, but that got shelved. I'll complete it at some stage before I return to Ireland, only the return to Thailand bit might be by train. I'll see.
There's many other plans in my head about travelling places, with or without a bicycle. Anything long term would have to see me return to Ireland to get reacquainted with my Dawes Galaxy, and I've no idea when that's going to happen.

t1mm

zico10 wrote: »

Thanks for reading. My knee though? What are you talking about?

I spent a month cycling around Thailand a little less than a year ago. It was on a road bike and I packed very lightly indeed. There's a blog on crazyguyonabike about that one as well.
I had planned to start a cycle from Thailand, through Malaysia, and on into Singapore a few weeks ago, but that got shelved. I'll complete it at some stage before I return to Ireland, only the return to Thailand bit might be by train. I'll see.
There's many other plans in my head about travelling places, with or without a bicycle. Anything long term would have to see me return to Ireland to get reacquainted with my Dawes Galaxy, and I've no idea when that's going to happen.

Ah, I've been reading so many of these journals I think they've all melded into one in my head! I've gotten to the stage now where I've told so many people about my idea I'll have no choice but to go through with it. Really looking forward to heading off

t1mm

Another question for ye lads - what sort of money did ye spend on a tent? Any recommendations?

Seaneh

Planet X wrote: »

Have a look here, I have this book but it only goes a relatively short way along the Euro routes from Roscoff.....


http://www.reddogbooks.com/gw.html

Cheers, I found this site too, eventually, http://www.velodyssey.com/, covers all the way to the boarder with Spain.

Thinking I might do the inverse route.

Tonyandthewhale

I spent about 40 bean on a gelert one man tent before my first tour although nowadays I mainly use a bundeswehr poncho that I got for 20 quid in Army Bargains on Capel street. Gelert is great, ridiculously good value, 1.5kg and lightweight, well designed but very small inside. The poncho's even lighter, cheaper, unbreakable and very versatile, but it takes getting used to.

On tour with the beoir I'd bring a mountain hardware two-man tent which is light for its size, good quality and spacious but cost real money and I don't really see the point in the extra luxury (and weight and pack space) when it's just me sleeping in it.

Canis Lupus

If you're going for a short time in summer then anything will get you by. Vango is a reasonable 'cheap' brand.

I used the MSR Hubba Hubba. It's pricey enough (think I paid circa 250 sterling for mine)but a real good quality tent, easy to put up/down and doesn't weigh a tonne.

Whatever you get aim for free standing ideally with a mesh inner and preferably get a 2manner. One man really doesn't give you enough room. If you're filthy rich Hilleberg are the Ferrari of tent makers but the price tags are hilarious.

Seaneh

I have an REI Quaterdome 2 Plus (2.1kg) which I plan on using. It's more than big enough for me and absolutely bombproof, so I know it won't fail, has lasted 3 years already with a lot of use in the US, South America and Europe.

t1mm

I spent about 40 bean on a gelert one man tent before my first tour although nowadays I mainly use a bundeswehr poncho that I got for 20 quid in Army Bargains on Capel street. Gelert is great, ridiculously good value, 1.5kg and lightweight, well designed but very small inside. The poncho's even lighter, cheaper, unbreakable and very versatile, but it takes getting used to.

On tour with the beoir I'd bring a mountain hardware two-man tent which is light for its size, good quality and spacious but cost real money and I don't really see the point in the extra luxury (and weight and pack space) when it's just me sleeping in it.

So you just lie down under a tree with a sleeping bag and a poncho on? Fair dues! I think I'll stick to a tent for the time being though.

If you're going for a short time in summer then anything will get you by. Vango is a reasonable 'cheap' brand.

I used the MSR Hubba Hubba. It's pricey enough (think I paid circa 250 sterling for mine)but a real good quality tent, easy to put up/down and doesn't weigh a tonne.

Whatever you get aim for free standing ideally with a mesh inner and preferably get a 2manner. One man really doesn't give you enough room. If you're filthy rich Hilleberg are the Ferrari of tent makers but the price tags are hilarious.

Those MSR Hubba Hubba tents look sweet alright, lot of tourers seem to be using them. Price is a small bit prohibitive for me though I'm afraid. 2man mesh freestanding sounds the right job though. Those 1man yokes are like coffins!

I have an REI Quaterdome 2 Plus (2.1kg) which I plan on using. It's more than big enough for me and absolutely bombproof, so I know it won't fail, has lasted 3 years already with a lot of use in the US, South America and Europe.

Bit out of my price range but I'm sure I'll find something decent

Thanks again for the replies!

Tonyandthewhale

t1mm wrote: »

So you just lie down under a tree with a sleeping bag and a poncho on? Fair dues! I think I'll stick to a tent for the time being though.

You don't wear the poncho, you set it up as an A-frame tent or lean-to or a bivvy, possibly as a hammock or whatever way you want and you lay out a ground sheet (I use an emergency blanket, just to keep my sleeping bag dry) or a sleeping pad if it's cold. Nice airy shelter (although you can set it up close and snug if the weather's bad), you can look at the stars as you drift off to sleep and you can set it up pretty much anywhere. Obviously it's not for everyone and it's not ideal for bad weather but I think it's great, especially for summer time.

Canis Lupus

I slept in just the bag in the desert a couple of times. I won't lie, I didn't enjoy it that much. Was expecting some creepy crawly to kill and eat me.

Ryath

Used the gelert 1 man myself for the week in France. Great tent for the price think I got it for around €30 it is tiny though absolutely no room for kit. I'm only 174cm tall and it was a tight fit. Lying on my back my toes could touch the top of the tent. Zico has the huba huba and it seemed like a great tent only weighs 1lb more and was spacious I was lucky to be able to throw my kit in it. It is pricey though most cheaper 2man tents weigh a lot more. When I do it again I may just do the credit card option and carry the gellert for emergencies. A bivy sac would be a much lighter option for this though.

Gelert 1man would do if your only going to use it some nights or are hardcore and don't mind leaving most of your gear outside at night. Personally camping everynight I'd need a two man I'd spend the money on a huba huba or similar to get a light weight tent. You'll appreciate not having to lug that extra 2kg when you have a long climb.

I had a triple on the bike I used and had never used the granny ring in Ireland but I tell you I was glad to have it in France. A lot was probably to do with I was only back cycling regularly a few months and my longest spin before going was 50k. Glad I had Zico to tow me around, should be able to return the favour next time.