Any Ladies want to have a neanderthal baby?

Freddy Smelly

Come on ladies, loan your womb to this scientist.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/21/neanderthal-baby-save-humanity

Antar Bolaeisk

Why do they need to go to such lengths, can't they just collect a few chavs.

Still, be pretty cool/interesting if they pull it off.

starlings

There is a sort of precedent among Europeans and Asians:

http://www.dailytech.com/Neanderthal+Sex+Gave+Europeans+and+Asians+Stronger+Immune+Systems/article22555.htm

But *ethical meltdown* I think even Mary Shelley would baulk at this idea.

donvito99

You could just shag a lad from Longford.

Sky King

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Why do they need to go to such lengths, can't they just collect a few chavs.

Still, be pretty cool/interesting if they pull it off.

Jeremy Kyle show yeah. That would be good alright.

smash

Last time I asked a woman to lend me her womb for science she called the bouncers over...

WindSock

I'm only giving birth to a Neanderthal if I get to ride a Neanderthal and not be branded a prehistoric bestial pervert.

Sarky

That is unimaginably awesome. SCIENCE!

crockholm

WindSock wrote: »

I'm only giving birth to a Neanderthal if I get to ride a Neanderthal and not be branded a prehistoric bestial pervert.

Wash my socks woman!!!!!
ready when you are

WindSock

crockholm wrote: »

Wash my socks woman!!!!!
ready when you are

:pac:

Wondering now if I will go down the immaculate conception route instead. Give birth to a Neandergod. I'd make a huge prophet out of it. C-section though, fuck that.

crockholm

WindSock wrote: »

:pac:

Wondering now if I will go down the immaculate conception route instead. Give birth to a Neandergod. I'd make a huge prophet out of it. C-section though, fuck that.

good luck with gettin the paternity cheque using that ol chestnut

Fr_Dougal

Would their massive heads not tear the vagoo out of a normal woman during childbirth?

WindSock

crockholm wrote: »

good luck with gettin the paternity cheque using that ol chestnut

Holy Spirit? Holy Pockets, more like!!!

LordSutch

Will be amazing if the neanderthal baby goes full term and is actually born as a healthy neanderthal baby! add to this the ongoing Mammoth work being done in Japan, re the promising birth of a healthy baby Mammoth within the next four years (African elephant to be surrogate mother).

Wibbs

WindSock wrote: »

I'm only giving birth to a Neanderthal if I get to ride a Neanderthal and not be branded a prehistoric bestial pervert.

Well they were big muscley lads, but they might have been lacking in the loincloth dept so...

crockholm wrote: »

good luck with gettin the paternity cheque using that ol chestnut

Still if you managed to get a paternity cheque off the creator if the universe you're quids in.

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Would their massive heads not tear the vagoo out of a normal woman during childbirth?

Possibly. I don't think they've found a female Neandertal pelvis, they might have been wide hipped, larger pelvic opening. IIRC the neandertal infants they've found had the same sized heads as us near enough but they had a bigger growth spurt in childhood. Beyond the ethical issues there are huge practical issues to overcome. About the biggest is that we don't have a fully complete genome for one. It's a cobble together(though an amazing one). Then we can't be sure if the child would go to anything like full term. There may be rhesus factor, or immune issues we've no clue about.

Then let's say the kid does go full term and survives. Would they be like us if raised in a modern setting? Probably, however they may not be. EG take dogs and wolves. Same species, can have viable young and dogs came from wolves. However if your lovable pet labrador was implanted with and gave birth to a pure wolf pup/cub you're gonna have great fun with the result. They would be tame, but not domesticated and a right bloody handful. Dogs are (very basically)wolves with the "wolf" behaviour bit toned down. Maybe modern humans are Neandertals toned down? Maybe we're "domesticated humans". Yes we still "bite", but we've more physchological and cultural brakes on us. Brakes that have developed over the last 40 odd thousand years, brakes that may have not been present in Neandertals or even our own ancestors back in the day?

Look at the sheer physicality of Neandertals*. They are massive(they weren't that short either, one guy was near 6 foot). Huge muscle bulk. That takes a lot of testosterone and feeding. That may well translate into aggression in dealing with conflict. Every one of their skeletons so far found has suffered trauma. Now that's likely from their hunting tactics, but some of it could be from fighting. Even if brought up in a modern setting, he(or she) might not be able to dial that stuff back. Just like a wolf brought up in a house would be a handful and make the most demented dog look like Snoopy. Look at how quite a number of young men go a bit nuts in adolescence, now imagine same only two or three times the strength and someone who could take a punch from Mick Tyson at his best. Scary. On the other hand he or she could be incredibly peaceful compared to us, who knows.

Then you have the ethical consideration. He or she would be on their own. A freak and worse an intelligent one. Major headwreck for them. I'd love to see even meet a Neandertal, but that cost would be waaaay too much for me.






*or earlier versions of us. Over the last 40,000 years we've become more weedy, with thinner skulls and smaller teeth etc

dj jarvis

bad idea

for a start we would have another bloody special interest group , looking for minority status ( mind you it would really be a minority group/person )
a new quango for them , special toilets , all the films would have to be either dubbed or sub titled for it, its own dating site , new laws just for it as it would not be covered under existing laws seeing its not a human , christ the list goes on and on

and in fairness , brain cowan would loose out on all the stand in work doing ads movies and voice overs - jeez that bloke has some feckin head on him

no good will come of this

starlings

Wibbs wrote: »

Look at the sheer physicality of Neandertals*. They are massive(they weren't that short either, one guy was near 6 foot). Huge muscle bulk. That takes a lot of testosterone and feeding. That may well translate into aggression in dealing with conflict. Every one of their skeletons so far found has suffered trauma. Now that's likely from their hunting tactics, but some of it could be from fighting. Even if brought up in a modern setting, he(or she) might not be able to dial that stuff back. Just like a wolf brought up in a house would be a handful and make the most demented dog look like Snoopy. Look at how quite a number of young men go a bit nuts in adolescence, now imagine same only two or three times the strength and someone who could take a punch from Mick Tyson at his best. Scary. On the other hand he or she could be incredibly peaceful compared to us, who knows.

Their bones tell us about their size and we can extrapolate strength from this. But in some places - modern-day Israel, I think - their bones were found in graves with pollen, so we know they were deliberately buried, with flowers. Some bones are from individuals crippled with deformity or injury, who lived a good life span after the trauma, indicating that they were cared for by their community.

Maybe they were like our mutual cousin the gorilla - huge and scary, yet generally peaceful and capable of good inter-species relationships.

But, you're right, we'll never find out by creating a single specimen in isolation. Poor lonely creature, I pity the very hypothesis of it.

Wibbs

starlings wrote: »

Their bones tell us about their size and we can extrapolate strength from this. But in some places - modern-day Israel, I think - their bones were found in graves with pollen, so we know they were deliberately buried, with flowers.

Well that's still contentious. The pollen found is also found in modern and ancient rodent burrows in the area, so it's well possible it was them that carried them in. Other "burial" sites are equally debatable. The jury's still out on that. Then again lack of burial doesn't mean lack of respect as you point out they clearly cared for some members of the community who would have objectively been a liability if they were heartless. Plus that caring is in us for a very long time. A million plus year old Erectus girl was cared for in the last month of her life after she got vitamin A poisoning.

Maybe they were like our mutual cousin the gorilla - huge and scary, yet generally peaceful and capable of good inter-species relationships.

Maybe, though what DNA we do have seems to show they rarely encountered others of their species in Europe anyway so don't seem that social. Then again that could be down to we don't have enough of a sample size and they were rare in the landscape compared to when moderns show up. Unlike us, they lived in areas for hundreds of thosands of years and no large mammals go extinct. We show up and they all do pretty much(except in Africa).

But, you're right, we'll never find out by creating a single specimen in isolation. Poor lonely creature, I pity the very hypothesis of it.

+1000 and They could tell us nothing about their vanished culture and we may clone a psycho one. If aliens in a million years cloned me as the only example of modern humanity I'd be a right let down

crockholm

What happened to this thread being about tapping some hairy neanderthal chicks?
Isn't that what science is for?
Damn it wibbs, you make me feel like a barely trained chimp reading your posts.

starlings

Thanks Wibbs -back to the bookshelves with me.

This one is delightful - mostly because the scarcity of evidence allows for speculation along sympathetic lines.

The Singing Neanderthals:
http://books.google.ie/books/about/The_Singing_Neanderthals.html?id=5N-5ufxUuJkC&redir_esc=y

Wibbs

crockholm wrote: »

What happened to this thread being about tapping some hairy neanderthal chicks?
Isn't that what science is for?

Damn straight. It would be an "experiment" of "scientific import". I'm sure if you hopped in your Tardis and went back in time there were the odd ones who were cute enough I reckon. Plus if you got into any bother with moderns in the area, you could get out of it by tellin them the wife is gonna soooo kick your arse Ted. As far as I recall the DNA shows that it went from Neandertal men to our women, so maybe the ladies in their Tardis would have a better time.

Damn it wibbs, you make me feel like a barely trained chimp reading your posts.

That's my 3% Neandertal genes talking. Sadly I didn;t get the muscles...

starlings wrote: »

Thanks Wibbs -back to the bookshelves with me.

This one is delightful - mostly because the scarcity of evidence allows for speculation along sympathetic lines.

The Singing Neanderthals:
http://books.google.ie/books/about/The_Singing_Neanderthals.html?id=5N-5ufxUuJkC&redir_esc=y

Yea we know more about them than any other archaic humans, but we also know so little with it and every discovery tends to be surprising. Maybe they had music, though the famous Neandertal "flute"(no sniggering down the back) is more likely to be scavenger damage. Then again if all we had of the Native Australians was their stone tools we'd think of them the same as or even maybe even more "primitive" than Neandertals, yet they have an incredibly rich cultural history. It's easy to rattle off figures like "40,000 years ago" but it's so incredibly long a time away on a human scale and god knows what we've lost of that time.

tan11ie

It would be a serious case of "a face only a mother could love"

Freddy Smelly

they could name the baby "Bam Bam" :P

MetalDog

WindSock wrote: »

I'm only giving birth to a Neanderthal if I get to ride a Neanderthal and not be branded a prehistoric bestial pervert.

Just ride Wayne Rooney but don't sell your story to the tabloids!

Smiles35

'Cave art' starts popping up around 35,000. This is around the time of the last of the Neanderthals going away from the warming planet. I think those paintings were like the missed scene of something else. A going away from the main culture for some who found the groups were getting very ritualised.

Seaneh

WindSock wrote: »

I'm only giving birth to a Neanderthal if I get to ride a Neanderthal and not be branded a prehistoric bestial pervert.

There's always this guy...

crockholm

Sorry Wibbs,me ol china, I've got an astra, not a tardis,though I have been called something similar.
Anyways, I was kinda hoping that they would be more of the hanoi jane "1,000,000 B.C." type, not the soviet short-putt,arm wrestling types you are suggesting.