Saab 95 opinions?

Mr Benevolent

Right, my research has narrowed my options right down to a 95, 2002 or 2003 model. I've done my homework and the big thing is the engine, listening for knocks, whines etc at all RPMs is crucial, as is fully synthetic oil etc. The problem is that most guides recommend dropping the sump to look for sludge. That's fine on a car that costs €10k but the ones I'm looking at can be had for €1500 easily. Has anyone any experience of these cars and can say what to look for without dropping the sump? An endoscope down the dipstick tube might be an option, or am I mad?

Jimdagym

Confab wrote: »

Right, my research has narrowed my options right down to a 95, 2002 or 2003 model. I've done my homework and the big thing is the engine, listening for knocks, whines etc at all RPMs is crucial, as is fully synthetic oil etc. The problem is that most guides recommend dropping the sump to look for sludge. That's fine on a car that costs €10k but the ones I'm looking at can be had for €1500 easily. Has anyone any experience of these cars and can say what to look for without dropping the sump? An endoscope down the dipstick tube might be an option, or am I mad?

An endoscope won't tell you anything. You are looking at the filter mesh that feeds the turbo. You can only do it with the sump off. You also want to check for aircon faults. Very common. Hold off and auto and it will run a diagnostic. Faults 08,11,&13 are common. Generally distributing flaps and stepper motors go. In 02 or 03 they changed to timing belt from chain so be wary of that.
I have an 01 since last April. I love it but I got it gor a grand so I haven't justified spending 300 dropping the sump yet. Taking a gamble I suppose but keep the fully synth oil changed every 6k miles and if it has been taken care of you have a chance. If you can do it yourself its meant to take 6 hours DIY time. Very messy though.

OldGuysRule

I had three 9-5s over the years, absolutely loved them, does not take long in one to see why they instill such brand loyalty in their followers. The last one I had was of the era you are looking at, lovely cars, great seats. You could look into the service history to make sure the breather pipe recall was done, worth trying to get one with service history, most owners looked after their cars. See if you can find an estate, they are the best versions, in my eyes.

Also, the petrol engined 9-5s have always had timing chains.

goochy

I have a 9-5 2001 as 2nd vehicle and love it but fuel consumption Is terrible on short journeys even for 2litre dont know how anyone could run one as main transport ! Is it normal ?

166man

This oil sludge issue seems to be such a common issue, I'd be dropping the sump even on a €2000 car rather than a €10k.

If you're only keeping it for a few months maybe then you could chance it but if keeping it for longer, haggle a few quid off the asking and get it done. It's not a massive amount of money and means that the car should run fine.

I think it's plain stupid not to get it done if you're holding onto the car. However I thought you weren't going ahead with a car Confab?

Mr Benevolent

166man wrote: »

However I thought you weren't going ahead with a car Confab?

Changed my mind.

tantipie

hope I can just drop in on this thread:)what does dropping the sump tell you..I'm new to all this and looking at an 06
9 3 Saab

biko

If oil has been changed religiously you're probably ok.
Look at the rest of the car and the owner. If it's a guy that loves his car he's probably kept it in good shape. If it's some guy that hasn't a clue about the car it might not be a good idea to buy it.

Dropping the sump let's you look at the inside and if you see "sludge" caked in there you shouldn't buy the car.

Some say you can hear a whine at startup or that the oil lamp takes a little bit longer to go out if there is a sludge problem.
But the only way to be sure is to check the sump/screen.

I would think that by 2006 the slugde problem was fixed. It's the earlier models that suffered from this issue.

Mr Benevolent

goochy wrote: »

I fuel consumption Is terrible on short journeys even for 2litre dont know how anyone could run one as main transport ! Is it normal ?

Define 'terrible'.

hope I can just drop in on this thread:)what does dropping the sump tell you

It tells you if the oil is ruined ('sludged') and if the engine is coated in that sludge. This in turn will tell you if the engine has been looked after properly.

galwaytt

goochy wrote: »

I have a 9-5 2001 as 2nd vehicle and love it but fuel consumption Is terrible on short journeys even for 2litre dont know how anyone could run one as main transport ! Is it normal ?

What's your idea of 'terrible' ? My brother's was about 27mpg (2.0t Petrol saloon, Auto) and I get 38mpg from my diesel (2.2 Estate, Auto).

Currently thinking - thinking - of changing back to petrol, as mileage p.a. is now low.

readytosnap

i had a 95 griffin jobbie it was a beautiful car to be in and it could shift ( 2 seconds after you floored it) but i had nlots of problems with electrics especially lights blowing, it was a money pit, but i did like driving it.

anthony4335

The sludge issue was resolved by 2004 with an update to the PCV pipes. Around town the car will return low 20's ,if you do a good deal of mixed driving you should see about 29MPG with the auto, anyways. Do as suggested with the ACC system, the blend doors do go but it is a relative easy fix (cheap) with plenty of diy guides on how to fix. Other things to look out for are the heated seats, they seem to be a week point ,level sensors on any with the xenons. Bushings are another thing .Also check the DIC (ignition module) with the 02's there was a batch of dodgy ones, so it should have been replaced by now, if not this could cost 500 euro new for a genuine part. (you can get second hand ones)
Great car but I will be selling my 07 this year soon as I get a new NCT, really sick of big cars at this stage, might try looking for a nice 3 door.

biko

Confab wrote: »

An endoscope down the dipstick tube might be an option, or am I mad?

Jimdagym wrote: »

An endoscope won't tell you anything. You are looking at the filter mesh that feeds the turbo.

Seems it could work, but go in the sump hole (sounds diiirty). If sump itself is clean there is no sludge issue imo.

USB cameras can be got on ebay etc..
http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Endoscope-Borescope-Inspection-Camera/dp/B007UZ6RVO
http://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Inspection-Microscope-Borescope-Endoscope/dp/B007ROP3FO/ref=pd_sim_p_1

Yawlboy

I ran an 07 9-5 2.0t Auto for six months last year - averaged 23.12MPG

anthony4335

Yawlboy wrote: »

I ran an 07 9-5 2.0t Auto for six months last year - averaged 23.12MPG

I take it that it was mainly short trips? as I have the same car at the moment and over the last 5 months I have averaged 29MPG, with a good mix of short and long drives.

Anan1

I had a 98 9-5 20 turbo auto for a while a few years back and loved it. It had had a replacement engine before I bought it, and it did eventually die from oil starvation after I sold it to a friend who didn't maintain it. At €1500 i'd take a chance on a well-maintained car that drove well, but that's just me.

Yawlboy

anthony4335 wrote: »

I take it that it was mainly short trips? as I have the same car at the moment and over the last 5 months I have averaged 29MPG, with a good mix of short and long drives.

Nope - mainly 100km a day commute on main roads (not Motorway)

Pottler

I've passed 2 already this week, one being winched onto a tow truck, the other with the bonnet up at the side of the N4. Going by my "Oh look, that's broken down" ometer, they can be troublesome.:) Some spares are a bit scarce too... mentioned that before though and got slagged, but it still stands..

166man

Pottler wrote: »

I've passed 2 already this week, one being winched onto a tow truck, the other with the bonnet up at the side of the N4. Going by my "Oh look, that's broken down" ometer, they can be troublesome.:) Some spares are a bit scarce too... mentioned that before though and got slagged, but it still stands..

Fuel economy seems to be miserable too. they are a cool car though...

biko

biko wrote: »

........
Dropping the sump let's you look at the inside and if you see "sludge" caked in there you shouldn't buy the car................

Can't see too many sellers allowing a sump drop tbh pre purchase

Even if the sump has been dropped prior to purchase (a year or two back for instance) there's really no way of knowing was the car ever oil starved to any extent.

That aside as it's a bit of a worry admittedly, the 9 - 5 are a great bus, so so comfy and unique

Mr Benevolent

*sigh*

Well, the forces of economy and sanity have finally prevailed, and after much soul searching, I have to stick to the Corsa. To compensate, I'm going to have the Corsa converted to LPG as one of the conversion companies are offering 250L of free LPG to everyone that books their car in before Feb 1st. That's 2-3 months of driving for me.

Sometimes I really hate being a sensible adult, but the money saved will probably go on city breaks and cocktails, so it's not all bad.

anthony4335

Pottler wrote: »

I've passed 2 already this week, one being winched onto a tow truck, the other with the bonnet up at the side of the N4. Going by my "Oh look, that's broken down" ometer, they can be troublesome.:) Some spares are a bit scarce too... mentioned that before though and got slagged, but it still stands..

Alot of breakdowns seem to be due to owners skipping the AUX belt and pulleys change every 60k miles. Had mine done soon after buying as you could see the tensioner pulley wobble. Skipping this may save you 340 plus labour but will at best leave you stranded at worse take out the oil and water pipes.
This one could be worth a punt and would not cost much more than the LPG conversion.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4447266

Mr Benevolent

anthony4335 wrote: »

This one could be worth a punt and would not cost much more than the LPG conversion.

It's not the cost of the car, it's the cost of running in. Already my Corsa costs less the half the overall running costs of a 2L car, Saab or whatever. It'd cost €1340 even before fuel costs came into it.

galwaytt

Pottler wrote: »

I've passed 2 already this week, one being winched onto a tow truck, the other with the bonnet up at the side of the N4. Going by my "Oh look, that's broken down" ometer, they can be troublesome.:) Some spares are a bit scarce too... mentioned that before though and got slagged, but it still stands..

What nonsense: I saw an 07 D reg X5 on a flatbed on the M50 yesterday - so can I say they're rubbish as well now ?

And, near Athlone, a Prius.

But I saw a 00 reg Punto chugging along at 100kph on the M6

So, using pub-maths, does that make X5's or Priiiiiii twice as reliable as 9-5's ?? Or prove that 13 yr old Punto's are more reliable than either.... ??

Er, no.

No shortage of parts out there for up to 9-5's. There again, mine has been reliable enough to need nothing outside a light bulb relay and a drive shaft CV joint, which cost me a total of........... £10 and £90 respectively (internet)

Pottler

galwaytt wrote: »

What nonsense: I saw an 07 D reg X5 on a flatbed on the M50 yesterday - so can I say they're rubbish as well now ?

And, near Athlone, a Prius.

But I saw a 00 reg Punto chugging along at 100kph on the M6

So, using pub-maths, does that make X5's or Priiiiiii twice as reliable as 9-5's ?? Or prove that 13 yr old Punto's are more reliable than either.... ??

Er, no.

No shortage of parts out there for up to 9-5's. There again, mine has been reliable enough to need nothing outside a light bulb relay and a drive shaft CV joint, which cost me a total of........... £10 and £90 respectively (internet)

X5? Yep, find me a happy owner. Thirsty, regretted and for sale is their usual status. Prius? Who cares, hateful washing machine. Saab is a "unique and wonderful" car? Yeah, up to the 9000 maybe, the newer ones are Vectras with lipstick. And I don't hear too many raving about their "exciting" Vectra. Oh and your pub maths is not too far wrong, as it happens, which is amusing.

biko

Confab wrote: »

*sigh*

Well, the forces of economy and sanity have finally prevailed, and after much soul searching, I have to stick to the Corsa. To compensate, I'm going to have the Corsa converted to LPG as one of the conversion companies are offering 250L of free LPG to everyone that books their car in before Feb 1st. That's 2-3 months of driving for me.

Sometimes I really hate being a sensible adult, but the money saved will probably go on city breaks and cocktails, so it's not all bad.

Sorry to hear that. Saabs are great cars with a bad rep for the sludge.
I'm a fan of Swedish cars but would probably go with a Volvo over a Saab from the "sludge years", particularly a 9-5.
I am currently drooling over S80's on donedeal

One source say the issue happens in 1998 to 2000 9-5 models and 2000 to 2003 9-3 models. (However the design wasn't changed until 2004 so cars up to 2004 will be vulnerable)

Another source adds more
1998-2003 SaabH engine B205/B235I4
1998-2003 Saab 9-5 B235 2.3 L
1999 Saab Viggen B235 2.3 L
2000-2002 Saab 9-3 B205 2.0 L
2000-2003 Saab 9-3 convertible B205 2.0 L

Pottler

biko wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. Saabs are great cars with a bad rep for the sludge.
I'm a fan of Swedish cars but would probably go with a Volvo over a Saab from the "sludge years", particularly a 9-5.
I am currently drooling over S80's on donedeal

One source say the issue happens in 1998 to 2000 9-5 models and 2000 to 2003 9-3 models. (However the design wasn't changed until 2004 so cars up to 2004 will be vulnerable)

Another source adds more
1998-2003 SaabH engine B205/B235I4
1998-2003 Saab 9-5 B235 2.3 L
1999 Saab Viggen B235 2.3 L
2000-2002 Saab 9-3 B205 2.0 L
2000-2003 Saab 9-3 convertible B205 2.0 L

I'm also a Volvo fan, possibly moreso when they were a bit more "Volvo" and I've had a few. For S/V 40 petrol owners especially, pay attention to the PCV and its associated pipework. A lot of engine and driveability problems come down to this system clogging solid and it not the easiest thing in the world to clean, let alone renew. If you are buying one, check to see if it is pressurising its crankcase and if it is, negotiate a good discount or walk away.:)

Mr Benevolent

Pottler wrote: »

the newer ones are Vectras with lipstick. And I don't hear too many raving about their "exciting" Vectra.

The Vectra OPC maybe? And the 95 doesn't share many bits with the Vectra anyway. You may as well avoid Bentleys because they share a VW platform.

Pottler

Confab wrote: »

The Vectra OPC maybe? And the 95 doesn't share many bits with the Vectra anyway. You may as well avoid Bentleys because they share a VW platform.

Agree fully. The Phaeton is a much cannier buy.:)

tu2j2

Pottler wrote: »

I've passed 2 already this week, one being winched onto a tow truck, the other with the bonnet up at the side of the N4. Going by my "Oh look, that's broken down" ometer, they can be troublesome.:) Some spares are a bit scarce too... mentioned that before though and got slagged, but it still stands..

Do you mind me asking what spares are scarce for them?


I love my 95, unfortunatly I've been through one engine already not long after I bought it. Dropped the sump on the second engine the minute it was put it and this is what greeted me



This is what causes the oil starvation,


Sludge isn't really an issue if the oil is changed regularly and the breather system is in good condition.

Other than that its been pretty reliable for the last year, does need looking after and they really are not cheap to run, mine has a Hirsch performance upgrade and I've never seen more than 32mpg on the obc and thats optimistic. Very comfortable though and deceptively fast as well, everybody knows fast estates are cool

I reckon you got that just in time tu2j2. Did you check the top end for sludge?

tu2j2

samih wrote: »

I reckon you got that just in time tu2j2. Did you check the top end for sludge?

Ya, plenty of gunk where the oil settles in the head but its all cleaned out now. I learnt the hard way the first time when a conrod came out through the block at 80mph.

I'll be taking the rocker cover of again tomorrow as its due another service and I want to change the upper chain guide so I'll get a look inside it again, hopefully its all still good.