Legal to lock bedroom windows?

deebee08

I have a 3 storey house that I bought in 2004 and currently rent out. My tennants are looking for a key for the windows, specifically the 1st floor bedroom window as their child keeps opening it with risk of falling out. (why they are letting the child near it is another question completely). I was never actually given a key for the windows when I bought the house.

What I need to know is, is it even legal to lock bedroom windows? I have come across a few threads on this issue but have been unable to find a definitive answer.
I see that Ikea sell child latches for windows so I would prefer to provide these instead.

Thanks.

Paulw

For security, I always lock our windows. In an emergency, to get out, you just need to break the glass.

As for a child, if you don't have the key, just tell them that. They then either need to watch the child closer, or else they need to get those childproof window catches.

kkelliher

Paulw wrote: »

For security, I always lock our windows. In an emergency, to get out, you just need to break the glass.

I truely hope you never have to try and break double glazed units as you have no hope without a heavy lump hammer so you would want to be careful with your locking of windows

The simple advice is to get the old locks changed to push button handles which do not have keys but still have part safety with the push button. You can also fit child latches on the windows so the can be safely part opened.

Bottom line you should not lock bedroom windows in case of a fire, you may not be in a position or strength to smash your way out

D3PO

This is not a landlords responsibility. If they are worried they should get the locks themselves. Theres no difference between child locks and those plastic things to stop children getting at plug sockets.

Parents responsibility not a landlords.

kkelliher

D3PO wrote: »

This is not a landlords responsibility. If they are worried they should get the locks themselves. Theres no difference between child locks and those plastic things to stop children getting at plug sockets.

Parents responsibility not a landlords.

If a child was to fall from the window, it is possible that the landlord may be held part neglegent if all reasonable care had not been taken to prevent such an incident. the property in question is a three storey property therefore I would advise that child latches at least should be fitted by the landlord to the third storey (and why not the second storey whilst your atit) in order to prevent any liability for little cost of installation.

In the same vain the landlord might be held part neglegent if they supply the keys to the windows and a fire was to occur and someone got trapped in a locked room. Again for small money the fitting of push button handles is a reasonable approach.

In both cases of course you could argue you are not neglegent and enjoy your day in court but why take the chance for little cost of rectification.

Paulw

kkelliher wrote: »

I truely hope you never have to try and break double glazed units as you have no hope without a heavy lump hammer so you would want to be careful with your locking of windows

The glass breaking hammers are very good at breaking even double glazed windows, and they're cheap.

Aside from having a hammer close by, I tend to leave the keys in the locks, so easy to unlock from inside, but very hard to open from the outside.

D3PO wrote: »

This is not a landlords responsibility. If they are worried they should get the locks themselves.

Totally agree. Not for the landlord to deal with.

D3PO

kkelliher wrote: »

If a child was to fall from the window, it is possible that the landlord may be held part neglegent if all reasonable care had not been taken to prevent such an incident. the property in question is a three storey property therefore I would advise that child latches at least should be fitted by the landlord to the third storey (and why not the second storey whilst your atit) in order to prevent any liability for little cost of installation.

In the same vain the landlord might be held part neglegent if they supply the keys to the windows and a fire was to occur and someone got trapped in a locked room. Again for small money the fitting of push button handles is a reasonable approach.

In both cases of course you could argue you are not neglegent and enjoy your day in court but why take the chance for little cost of rectification.

I see your point but your stretching at it. Its not a legal responsibility for a landlord. Im not preempting what a court would rule but any parent worth their salt should do what they need to protect their child,

Paulw

kkelliher wrote: »

If a child was to fall from the window, it is possible that the landlord may be held part neglegent if all reasonable care had not been taken to prevent such an incident. the property in question is a three storey property therefore I would advise that child latches at least should be fitted by the landlord to the third storey (and why not the second storey whilst your atit) in order to prevent any liability for little cost of installation.
.

Sure, why not do it for all windows. Then again, by your logic, every landlord is then responsible for the activities of every tenant, to ensure that they is no way they can hurt themselves. Maybe install bubble wrap around the place too? Just in case.

The landlord is not responsible for having locks installed, over the standard legal building requirements. The parents are responsible for actions of the child.

Just curious though, do you sell these push button window locks?

kkelliher

Paulw wrote: »

Sure, why not do it for all windows. Then again, by your logic, every landlord is then responsible for the activities of every tenant, to ensure that they is no way they can hurt themselves. Maybe install bubble wrap around the place too? Just in case.

The landlord is not responsible for having locks installed, over the standard legal building requirements. The parents are responsible for actions of the child.

Just curious though, do you sell these push button window locks?

I think is is very clear from my signature what I do for a living....

Under Irish Law a Landlord does have a responsibility to do all that is reasonable to prevent injury to persons or property on or in their property and they are also responsible for the activities of their tenants in respect to their effect on neighbours etc

kkelliher

D3PO wrote: »

Im not preempting what a court would rule but any parent worth their salt should do what they need to protect their child,

I am not disagreeing with you on this in any way but that does not negate the responsibility that may be held against a landlord depending on the circumstances.

murphaph

kkelliher wrote: »

In both cases of course you could argue you are not neglegent and enjoy your day in court but why take the chance for little cost of rectification.

...because where on earth do you stop with this?

Fit bump stops on every kitchen press door in case someone bangs their head? Provide a fire extinguisher in every single room? Buy metal framed bedsteads instead of wooden ones because they won't burn? You could argue almost anything was negligent on the landlord's part. You do have to trust to luck and hope that if ever sued that a court will show some common sense (they don't always do this of course).

At some point this nanny state business is enough. Personal responsibility is long overdue a bit of a comeback.

Victor

kkelliher wrote: »

I think is is very clear from my signature what I do for a living....

Under Irish Law a Landlord does have a responsibility to do all that is reasonable to prevent injury to persons or property on or in their property and they are also responsible for the activities of their tenants in respect to their effect on neighbours etc

Realistically, more people die in fires than from falling out windows.

Tell them to keep the child out of those rooms and prevent them from getting at the windows in rooms they have access to, e.g. put a table (no readily climbable) in front of the window instead of a chair (readily climbable).

ted1

Not sure of the exact rule of it applies retrospectively.

But you can not lock upstairs windows and they have to be able to open and allow some one with B.A gear climb in

BostonB

kkelliher wrote: »

If a child was to fall from the window, it is possible that the landlord may be held part neglegent if all reasonable care had not been taken to prevent such an incident. the property in question is a three storey property therefore I would advise that child latches at least should be fitted by the landlord to the third storey (and why not the second storey whilst your atit) in order to prevent any liability for little cost of installation.

In the same vain the landlord might be held part neglegent if they supply the keys to the windows and a fire was to occur and someone got trapped in a locked room. Again for small money the fitting of push button handles is a reasonable approach.

In both cases of course you could argue you are not neglegent and enjoy your day in court but why take the chance for little cost of rectification.

If you provide latches what happens if there's a problem with them? Push button handles doesn't solve the problem, its the same as an unlocked window. Provide keys and they'll get lost, and it can be difficult if not impossible to find replacements.

Would a window company fit child proof latches?

BostonB

Victor wrote: »

Realistically, more people die in fires than from falling out windows.

Tell them to keep the child out of those rooms and prevent them from getting at the windows in rooms they have access to, e.g. put a table (no readily climbable) in front of the window instead of a chair (readily climbable).

Do you have stats for that?

Quite young kids can climb like monkeys. It doesn't take much to forget to lock a door (fire hazard in itself) or a stair guard, and be surprised by a child exploring.

Paulw

ted1 wrote: »

Not sure of the exact rule of it applies retrospectively.

But you can not lock upstairs windows and they have to be able to open and allow some one with B.A gear climb in

Can you provide a link to any legislation on this? Do you mean that the windows must be able to open, rather than cannot be locked?

cookie1977

we have tiny latchs on our windows which we got installed. They're basically a hook to stop the window opening wide enough to get out. they're difficult for young children to fiddle with but in the event (god forbid) of a fire we as adults can easily disconnect them to open the window wide. I'll post pics later for those interested.

djimi

kkelliher wrote: »

Under Irish Law a Landlord does have a responsibility to do all that is reasonable to prevent injury to persons or property on or in their property and they are also responsible for the activities of their tenants in respect to their effect on neighbours etc

I dont think that this extends to have to put any kind of locks or safety catches on windows tbh. If the window has a normal latch that allows it to be closed securely and not be opened from the outside then that should be sufficient; beyond that its up to the parents to have responsibility for their kids safety as they see fit. Would you say its also the landlords responsibility to provide a gate for the bottom of the stairs?

housetypeb

i don't know myself,but is it possible for you to get an universal type key to lock/unlock the windows from a hardware store or the window manufacturers?

BostonB

housetypeb wrote: »

i don't know myself,but is it possible for you to get an universal type key to lock/unlock the windows from a hardware store or the window manufacturers?

Depends on the window, some are more common than others. I've not beeen able to find any spares for ours.

ted1

Paulw wrote: »

Can you provide a link to any legislation on this? Do you mean that the windows must be able to open, rather than cannot be locked?

Here You go: (source: http://www.windowsafety.ie/2010/07/safety-regulations/ )

Q: Are window restrictors permitted under fire safety regulations?

A: Escape windows from dwellings are an important secondary means of escape from bedrooms in the event of fire. Minimum dimensions were revised in under Part B (Fire Safety) building code in 2006 to require an unobstructed opening area of at least 0.33m2, with a minimum width and height of 450mm.

In the amended regulations the fitting of restrictors is recommended to restrict the initial opening of escape windows, in the interest of child safety, as recommended by the National Safety Council.

To comply with the code our window safety restrictors limit the initial opening of the window to 100mm such that exit cannot be gained by small children.

NB: Under section 1.5.6 (e) of the regulations the use of locking mechanisms is prohibited.

“Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be released by removable keys or other tools, should not be fitted to window opening sections.”


Here's the actual code (page 59): http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

Paulw

Building Regulations 2006, which are do not apply to buildings completed before then.

Interesting though, where it says that locks "should not" be used, rather than "must not".