Speed up (10k time)

just-joe

I ran a 40.19 10k at the end of October, and ran a 19.10 5k on st. stephen's day. I am signed up for a 10k on April 7th, and I'm wondering what goal time would be good to aim for.

Would 35 mins be too big a jump?

drquirky

Hard to know, what is your training like? 35 would most likely be a bit of a stretch w/ a 5k time like that

just-joe

I'm training for a marathon in February and not doing any 10k specific work. Running 4 or 5 times a week, about 50k+ a week. Will start some speedwork after February, not much time before April by then though!

RoyMcC

JJ if 40 was a genuinely run time in October then you won't run 35 now. It's a 12.5% improvement and I'd be surprised if you (or anybody) could do that without several years of very hard work.

Sub-39 you ought to be pleased with.

Krusty_Clown

We're all built differently, but it took me 3.5 years to go from 40:33 to 35:32 (and another 6 months to break 35 mins, if that's your goal). If one was dedicated to the goal, it could be done significantly quicker, but if you're like me, and focus on marathons and other distances rather than exclusively targeting a specific distance, it'll probably take a few years. Also, if you're new to running, then that progress will happen significantly quicker.

Nothing wrong with having 35 mins as a goal, but just don't set yourself the expectation that you'll be able to do it in three months time. I'm with Roy. Set your targets on cracking 39 mins, and run a few races (e.g. the Parkrun 5ks) to establish your progress, and adjust your target upwards or downwards.

ecoli

+1 on what KC says I mean on one side you are talking about running 5k nearly 100 seconds quicker and holding that for back to back 5ks. On the other hand Stephens day may not be an accurate fitness gauge depending on how over indulgent a X mas you had.

Best advice would bet to set short, medium and long term goals. Setting too aggressive short term goals can demoralize you or even worse make you push your body beyond its limits causing injury or illness

There are no short cuts in running (no pun intended) consistency over a sustained period of time (months to years) will pay off the main thing is enjoying what you are doing along the way

just-joe

Cheers everyone. It's mostly just a case of wondering what the average person would do. I have no idea how big a jump other people would expect. 3.5 years for 5 min improvement puts it in perspective.

I had run 45ish 10ks before but then decided to train properly, picked the 40min quite arbitrarily as many pick a 4 hour marathon etc and managed to do it. So that 5min gain is overly kind.

I would say I was definitely at my max for that 10k and almost max for st. stephen's day. (although I was getting reaquainted with guinness for the days before it since I was home for xmas, so maybe could have managed a small bit quicker)

So being more conservative sounds like a good idea, and aiming for as fast as 35 probably not one.

Krusty_Clown

just-joe wrote: »

I had run 45ish 10ks before but then decided to train properly, picked the 40min quite arbitrarily as many pick a 4 hour marathon etc and managed to do it. So that 5min gain is overly kind.

It's not really the 5 minutes improvement that is the problem (for example, moving from 50 -> 45 might only take a couple of weeks of training, if you don't have a background of running, or haven't previously done any speed-work). It is the particular 5 minute block that you were trying to shave off that is problematic. You have to bear in mind the laws of diminishing returns. As you get closer to your potential best time, the minutes become more and more difficult to come by. To put it into further perspective, if you plan on running a 35:30 10k time, you should probably be capable of running a 2:46 marathon. What is your goal time for your upcoming marathon?

Like I said, don't be put off. Don't put limiting factors on your potential. The best thing to do is to establish where you are right now, and what you need to do, to get where you want to be.

Moonfruit

Hi JJ
I got into running in March 2012 and run my first 10k followed by a couple of 5k's. My time then was 41mins and 20mins respectively ( can't remember the exact times). I really caught the running bug and trained as much as possible. I entirely stopped drinking alcohol, give up Dairy, caffeine and ate very healthily. In sept 2012 I came third in a 10k with 36:04 and 17:01 in a 5k around the same time.
I also concentrated on changing my running style to a more efficient one which made a big difference. I ran for my county in intercounty cross country and got on the score sheet.
I feel with enough sacrifices and determination it is possible to dramatically reduce your time and make significant progress.
Keep at it and good luck.

just-joe

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

To put it into further perspective, if you plan on running a 35:30 10k time, you should probably be capable of running a 2:46 marathon. What is your goal time for your upcoming marathon?

Woah yeah, that's massive perspective! There's no way I'll be running a 2.46 marathon anytime soon?!

I'm actually not sure what time I am aiming for in the marathon. If it's ok I'll take the chance to get some advice on that too. I ran a half marathon at the start of October in 1:50:09. So recent race history is

Oct 7th half marathon 1:50:09 (definitely not at max)
October 28th 10k 40:19
Dec 26th 5k 19:10

I have also ran one marathon ages ago as my first running experience, dublin in 07 and finished in 3:57. Googled and found mcmillan pace caculator. If I use the 10k time it suggests aiming for 3:08 and if I use the half marathon it suggests aiming for 3:51. Quite a big gap and not very useful. 3:08 seems way too quick so it feels like I shouldn't aim that fast. But hopefully I could manage faster than 3:51 so kinda aiming for a square 3:30. So my main question is whether I should try to push for faster than that?

Donelson

just-joe wrote: »

I ran a 40.19 10k at the end of October, and ran a 19.10 5k on st. stephen's day. I am signed up for a 10k on April 7th, and I'm wondering what goal time would be good to aim for.

Would 35 mins be too big a jump?

I would think a high 37 would be a good performance. but it depends how new to the sport you are and what plan you have.

estariol

my experience is that as my marathon times came down my 5 & 10K times have crept up, though to be fair I'm really bad at disciplined training and avoid speed work as much as possible! When I did manage to get my 5k down to 18:30 (dont think I coud go any faster) it was with 6 months of interval work, now I'm back at 21 mins and focusing mainly at distance which seems to suit me better.

Krusty_Clown

just-joe wrote: »

Oct 7th half marathon 1:50:09 (definitely not at max)
October 28th 10k 40:19
Dec 26th 5k 19:10

I think you can disregard any races from 2007, albeit bearing in mind any lessons you may have learned from the experience. The half marathon time is a little more relevant to your upcoming marathon, but if you didn't run it to the best of your ability, then it becomes slightly less useful, so your 10k time becomes a little more relevant.

As part of any marathon plan you should probably have some tune-up races (e.g. 5k, 10k, 10 mile etc), and use these to guide your training paces and goals for the marathon. Are you following a specific plan? Have you done any training at planned marathon pace, and if so, how did it feel?

Donelson

Moonfruit wrote: »

I also concentrated on changing my running style to a more efficient one which made a big difference.

Hi Moonfruit, Could you expand on this a little for me please?
I to think that there is a difference in running mechanics between say 4min/km and 3:30min/km but I've never been able to put my finger on it.
But maybe it's different speed for different people?

just-joe

I haven't done any races in preparation apart from the 5k which doesn't really count. It is only one month away now too (Tokyo, feb 24th) so there won't be any races, I just hope I can get a few more long runs in!

So far I have run long runs (20k/24/46k) at 5-5.30/k pace, and it felt fine, and good recovery. I was thinking of using that as race pace but given you normally do long runs slower than race pace, maybe I should aim a tiny bit higher like 4.45. I haven't ran past 10k at that pace though, so I feel like I should try at least one long run at that faster race pace.

Krusty_Clown

just-joe wrote: »

I haven't done any races in preparation apart from the 5k which doesn't really count. It is only one month away now too (Tokyo, feb 24th) so there won't be any races, I just hope I can get a few more long runs in!

So far I have run long runs (20k/24/46k) at 5-5.30/k pace

Should that read 26k? If that's the case, it sounds like you may be a little undertrained from a long run perspective. If you have 4 weeks remaining, I would try to get a 30k and 32k completed and then taper. You should start the race conservatively (particularly if your endurance is not up to scratch), e.g. 5-5:30/k pace, and then after 32kms, if you're still feeling good, then increase the pace. Don't start out fast and then face the risk of a long, slow grind to the finish. Also next time, consider following a more structure training plan.

just-joe

Yes that's definitely 26 not 46!

Yup I was following a plan (hal higdon intermediate 1) to the note before I went back to Ireland for xmas and new years, and it went straight out of the window. I missed long runs for about 4 weeks which threw the progression out of the window. Regret not doing it a lot now! I should have run that 30 or 32 before now but needed to bridge the gap a bit, so I did my first long run of the year last sunday with 26km.

Do you think it would be ok to go from 26 to 30?

Thanks again for the solid advice.

Krusty_Clown

just-joe wrote: »

Do you think it would be ok to go from 26 to 30?

Better to go from 26kms -> 32kms than from 26kms -> 42kms!

Given that you completed the 26kms last Sunday, you should be fine to do 29 or 30kms this weekend, and 32kms next weekend. This will leave you with the standard three week taper. Just slow it down. You will gain more by running your last couple of long runs slower, so you spend more time on your feet and reduce the risk of injury. Would love to do Tokyo marathon. I hope you take the time to do a write-up afterwards. Would love to know how you go about signing up, where to stay etc.

just-joe

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Better to go from 26kms -> 32kms than from 26kms -> 42kms!

That's for sure! But yeah just in case 26 -> 28 -> 30 would be better but there isn't really time for that so 30 then 32 sounds cool.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Would love to do Tokyo marathon. I hope you take the time to do a write-up afterwards. Would love to know how you go about signing up, where to stay etc.

I will indeed let you know how it goes! I'll check out some other write-ups as not sure what the usual details are, and basically think of any details that might be useful.

Really excited for it!

MickFleetwood

would it be good for an asthmatic to run this length in an hour and twenty minutes? at 15 years old?

Krusty_Clown

MickFleetwood wrote: »

would it be good for an asthmatic to run this length in an hour and twenty minutes? at 15 years old?

Who is the asthmatic and who is 15 years old? What distance? Confused.

I'm an asthmatic and distance is largely irrelevant. Age is relevant though. Typically you have to be 18 years of age to register for a marathon and there's probably a good reason for that. Yes, there are examples of people who have been running marathons since they were knee-high, but generally speaking it is not a good idea, particularly if that 15 year old does not have a solid running base. Nothing wrong with a 15 year running 5k and 10k races though.

A really good idea for a 15 year old would be to join a running club, where that 15 year old will get advice in line with their current level of exercise/fitness and provide a path of progression that limits the risks of injury.

MickFleetwood

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Who is the asthmatic and who is 15 years old? What distance? Confused.

I'm an asthmatic and distance is largely irrelevant. Age is relevant though. Typically you have to be 18 years of age to register for a marathon and there's probably a good reason for that. Yes, there are examples of people who have been running marathons since they were knee-high, but generally speaking it is not a good idea, particularly if that 15 year old does not have a solid running base. Nothing wrong with a 15 year running 5k and 10k races though.

A really good idea for a 15 year old would be to join a running club, where that 15 year old will get advice in line with their current level of exercise/fitness and provide a path of progression that limits the risks of injury.

thanks for the advice. I do martial arts though and around three times in the past i've taken part in 10 km runs, my most recent one I completed in an hour and 20 minutes.

I can run an 8 minute mile with no training for months beforehand in any sport whilst suffering from mild asthma, would you consider this a decent level of fitness?

Krusty_Clown

MickFleetwood wrote: »

thanks for the advice. I do martial arts though and around three times in the past i've taken part in 10 km runs, my most recent one I completed in an hour and 20 minutes.

I can run an 8 minute mile with no training for months beforehand in any sport whilst suffering from mild asthma, would you consider this a decent level of fitness?

Hi Mick, I would say that if you do martial arts a couple of times a week and get out for a couple of runs every week too, then you have a decent level of all-round fitness.

As to your other question about the 8 min/mile, there is really no right or wrong answer. Everybody is built different. For some people who post in this forum, an 8 minute mile will be a life-long ambition. For most others, an 8 minute mile would not present any kind of challenge, and many of the posters here will run 50-80 miles per week a good deal faster than that pace. If you don't train for a few months and then go out and run an 8 minute mile, the real question is 'why'? It serves no purpose. Better to start with a specific goal in mind (like getting your 10k time under 60 minutes) and start training appropriately for that goal. Running more regularly will improve your overall level of fitness (just as martial arts will improve your running etc). Joining a running club would be a great way of ensuring that you hit your targets, whether they be 'improving your fitness', 'complimenting your martial arts', 'running a mile as fast as you can', or 'improving your 10k time'. The asthma is irrelevant.

MickFleetwood

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi Mick, I would say that if you do martial arts a couple of times a week and get out for a couple of runs every week too, then you have a decent level of all-round fitness.

As to your other question about the 8 min/mile, there is really no right or wrong answer. Everybody is built different. For some people who post in this forum, an 8 minute mile will be a life-long ambition. For most others, an 8 minute mile would not present any kind of challenge, and many of the posters here will run 50-80 miles per week a good deal faster than that pace. If you don't train for a few months and then go out and run an 8 minute mile, the real question is 'why'? It serves no purpose. Better to start with a specific goal in mind (like getting your 10k time under 60 minutes) and start training appropriately for that goal. Running more regularly will improve your overall level of fitness (just as martial arts will improve your running etc). Joining a running club would be a great way of ensuring that you hit your targets, whether they be 'improving your fitness', 'complimenting your martial arts', 'running a mile as fast as you can', or 'improving your 10k time'. The asthma is irrelevant.

right, thanks!
I don't really partake in running aside from the occasional 3 mile jog I might do every few weeks on a Saturday morning and some 10km runs our martial arts club may do. but, thanks for the advice anyway, i'll take it on board.