The meaning of "Republican Socialism" in our times

Thomas_I

Inspired by some posts on another thread from SoulandForm I thought to start this thread for anyone who´s interested in discussing the meaning of "Republican Socialism" in our times.

Given that the political idea of Socialism and in this term as an political ideology is most considered as outdated. The reason fot that thinking is the abuse of the term "Socialism" by the former European Communist regimes and their collapsing in the years from 1989 to 1992.

Most of these former communist regimes used to call themselves "Socialist" and they explained their state policies in disguise on the grounds to achieve a either / or

- Socialist Republic
- Democratic Socialism
- Peoples Democracy

but it was just a communist dictatorship, nothing more.

These ideas still exists among the far-left political movement and the results they get in elections shows how small they are and how backwards they´re perceived by the electorate.

The meaning of "Republican Socialism" is imo based on the ideas of James Connolly and the times he lived and the influences from the experiences he got during his political live in Ireland and the USA are from the 19th Century mainly. Even the Soviet Union wasn´t established yet when he joined the Easter Rising in 1916. Just the Labour Party founded in 1912 by himself, James Larkin and William X. O´Brien. So there was no real existing state in which Socialism got the place for practising these ideas. But his ideas continued to live and were part of the declaration of the Irish Republic of 1916.

Taking a look on the list of political parties in the Republic of Ireland and how they are sectioned, it´s interesting to see how many "left-wing parties" still exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

I´ll keep this OP with the focus on the Republic of Ireland, but it doesn´t mean that something from NI can´t be brought in, because - I´ll come to that later - the thread itself is intended to get a wider view and thus including some international relations on other issues of our times.

What is not listed there, because the people organising themselves outside the common known parties to express their political will, are some movements we´ve recently seen during the bank crisis. The people I´m referring to are those of the "Occupy movement". From what I´ve seen, although I admit not much read, these people are not only recruiting themselves from the younger generations, they might also have people of different ages too in their company.

Their aim is, as I perceive it, to change the political agenda and they´re expressively anti-captalist in their attitudes. IMO it is also a left-wing political movement but it doesn´t uses the "Socialism" label to define itself. Despite that, their aims are not far from what one understands of Socialism. But it also seems to me, that they regard the party political system as being outdated altogether.

What is the meaning of "Republican Socialism" in our times anyway when in this global world we´re living the international connections on trade and economy are so far-reaching that it affects many people and to be honest, the meaning of "Republicanism" is more on a decline in the public when it doesn´t refers to a united Ireland. If that is so, then this had been deminished to that purpose and other points in that meaning are obsolete because they really exist already in the RoI.

I think that most people are seeking for the opportunities to earn a good living, have a peaceful life and a stable state which safeguards that.

What are the opinions of the people on here in regards of what can be learnd from the past and where one might find answers to our present problems in our times?

SoulandForm

Republicanism is an Irish context means the belief in a 32 county independent Ireland and a rejection of the two nation thesis. This doesnt mean an end to co-operation with other countries or trade, just that Ireland should decide her own destiny- not Brussels, Whitehall or multinational corporations.

Socialism means that the means of production and distribution are socially owned rather than by private individuals; it can take various forms.

There was a lot good about the old USSR and there was a lot evil about it; however Ireland in 2013 is not Russia in 1917.

goose2005

SoulandForm wrote: »

Republicanism is an Irish context means the belief in a 32 county independent Ireland

And that's a problem - our idea that "republic" just means an absence of monarchy, and nothing to do with actual republicanism in terms of civil society, the social contract, liberty, civic virtue, etc. Just so long as our masters meet in a grey building in Dublin instead of a brown building in London, we'll be content.

and a rejection of the two nation thesis.

But doesn't that amount to a rejection of reality?

This doesnt mean an end to co-operation with other countries or trade, just that Ireland should decide her own destiny- not Brussels, Whitehall or multinational corporations.

But what does that even mean? Ireland will always be dependent on oil prices and international trade. Being in the EU means that we at least have some voice. "Brussels" isn't some dictator, it's made up of the representatives of 27 countries, including the Irish.

Thomas_I

SoulandForm wrote: »

Republicanism is an Irish context means the belief in a 32 county independent Ireland and a rejection of the two nation thesis. This doesnt mean an end to co-operation with other countries or trade, just that Ireland should decide her own destiny- not Brussels, Whitehall or multinational corporations.

Socialism means that the means of production and distribution are socially owned rather than by private individuals; it can take various forms.

There was a lot good about the old USSR and there was a lot evil about it; however Ireland in 2013 is not Russia in 1917.

What was the "lot good about the old USSR"? Quite frankly, I can´t find any good there.

The problem with the socialist theory and it´s disciples is that it doesn´t work to make the people in such countries queal wealthy, it works that way to make the most of them poor and the ruling oligarchy rich. That´s the way it worked in socialist countries, that´s the way some say it works in capitalist countries. The difference between these systems is, that in capitalist countries you´ve other chances and are more or less free to decide yourself what you´re going to do with your capital. Look at how these former socialist countries thought to invest with their public owned production and distribution for the good of their people. It´s the socialist systems weakness to "plan for the economic future" and not to adopt a system of social economy which means a slightly regulated free market. What I´m talking about here is the latter and in this context it is the meaning of "Social Democracy".

Thank God that Ireland in 2013 is not Russia in 1917. Still the people you´re supporting need to give the electorate updated answers to these nowadays more complicated questions.

The Occupy movement is imo a protest movement in the first place. They might seem to seek for an alternative answer to the global market problems, but it´s not that easy and if one comes up with Marx and Engles as to find the solutions in their books, it is an backward suggestion and therefore outdated, because the whole theory provides that this system is working at its best (or even at all) after a world revolution has past successfully.

Look at the still communist run countries like China or Cuba. They´d to face their realities and open their countries for Western investors and their prosperity grows by providing these investors the facilities for their production and by providing them the cheap labourers. They had to make concessions for fear that another revolution by their own people might sweep them away into history. Never underestimate the core of human nature for this has proved that in theory it all works but by the test of reality much fails.

The challange in which we already are and which is the issue of the near future is to develop a new system which has both in it, some capitalism and some socialism. The point in that is to get the balance between both of them.