Career Change - DIT Pg Dip in Law or KI Dip?

BrBa

Hi

I was hoping to get some advice on a change of career to become a solicitor. I am currently working as a teacher and have a permanent post. I am in my mid-twenties and am considering going back to college to do a postgraduate diploma in law (I can take a career break to do so).

Do you have any advice on the Pg Diploma in Law offered by DIT and the Diploma in Legal Studies in Kings Inns and how they are perceived in obtaining a training contract. I know most people probably wouldn't do KI unless becoming a barrister due to price. The times of classes suit me better as I could substitute teach to earn some money.

Has anyone any experience of the Masters in Common Laws in UCD?

Do corporate firms hire people who have studied these courses or would they look for someone who has previously worked as a paralegal/legal executive too?

Your thoughts and experiences are much appreciated (I've read the threads on becoming a solicitor and the recent thread on unpaid traineeship etc. and understand it's not easy so bear in mind I have a fall back position too).

chops018

If you have a level 8 degree already, and I'm assuming you have due to being a teacher, then you don't need to do either of those courses to become a Solicitor, you just need to apply to do the FE1's and try pass them. However, if you haven't studied law before I would recommend one of the professional law courses aimed at passing the FE1's, Griffith, City, and Independent Colleges all offer such courses.

People are gonna call you crazy for giving up a teaching job in this economic climate but if you really want a career change then go for it and the best of luck. As has been mentioned, any career is hard to break into, if you're determined enough and keep at it there is no reason (bar financial of course) why you shouldn't be able to get in.

As for the two course you mentioned: the KI's dip is purely aimed for people without an approved law degree who want to enter the BL course and qualify as a Barrister, so unless that is what you want I would steer clear of it.

Strawberry Fields

Do you want to be a barrister or solicitor? If Barrister do Inns.
I did the DIT course, I know some who went on and got the Fe1s but the majority gave up after a couple of attempts and went to work. You certainly won't get legal work with the DIT course but it may give you a grounding in the subjects. Also it's not recognised for New York Bar, Inns.
Best bet is probably to do the prep courses unless you want a legal qualification on your c.v. As you could still work and study evenings.
I Don't know anything about the UCD masters.

BrBa

Thanks chops018 and StrawberryFields.

My concern with doing the FE1s by simply doing the revision courses is getting interviews afterwards. I thought a course and then FE1s would look better on the CV (as I haven't Commerce or Politics etc as my undergrad). I also think a course would give me a better foundation in law and some of the skills, legal system etc.

I like public speaking and wouldn't rule out becoming a barrister 100% but I think the route to solicitor would be easier as I could try obtain a position as a legal executive or assistant as a stepping stone. The KI diploma keeps both routes open for me as does the UCD Masters (but I think that is 2 years full-time so it would be difficult to earn money on part-time subbing work).

ResearchWill

BrBa wrote: »

Thanks chops018 and StrawberryFields.

My concern with doing the FE1s by simply doing the revision courses is getting interviews afterwards. I thought a course and then FE1s would look better on the CV (as I haven't Commerce or Politics etc as my undergrad). I also think a course would give me a better foundation in law and some of the skills, legal system etc.

I like public speaking and wouldn't rule out becoming a barrister 100% but I think the route to solicitor would be easier as I could try obtain a position as a legal executive or assistant as a stepping stone. The KI diploma keeps both routes open for me as does the UCD Masters (but I think that is 2 years full-time so it would be difficult to earn money on part-time subbing work).

In reply to the first issue, most solicitor firms just want to know you have passed the FE1's, having a law degree or course does not really come into it, getting an apprenticeship, is a lot to do luck and perseverance.

The route to a solicitor for you at its easiest would be do preparation course for FE1's then pass same at best maybe you could do that in a year, then find apprenticeship maybe if lucky another 6 months (very very very lucky) then wait to start Blackhall say another 6 months. Blackhall and in office to completion if I remember correctly 2 years 6 months open to correction on that, so with everything going your way 4 and a half years to qualify as Solicitor. So quilified all going well 2017.

The Bar would be start on Dip course next September, 2 years then all going well 1 year BL course (Full Time), then 1 year devilling maybe 2 so qualified 2016 finish devilling 2017/18.

chops018

BrBa wrote: »

Thanks chops018 and StrawberryFields.

My concern with doing the FE1s by simply doing the revision courses is getting interviews afterwards. I thought a course and then FE1s would look better on the CV (as I haven't Commerce or Politics etc as my undergrad). I also think a course would give me a better foundation in law and some of the skills, legal system etc.

I like public speaking and wouldn't rule out becoming a barrister 100% but I think the route to solicitor would be easier as I could try obtain a position as a legal executive or assistant as a stepping stone. The KI diploma keeps both routes open for me as does the UCD Masters (but I think that is 2 years full-time so it would be difficult to earn money on part-time subbing work).

From what you hear these days interviews are few and far between. The top 5 in Dublin take on people each year, and you hear of people with zero background in law getting taken on - without any FE1's, and everything paid for. When I finished my Master's I must have sent near 50 CV's looking for ANY work with a legal department/law firm. I got one call back and I was unsuccessful. So I decided to just tackle the FE1's (I've 4 exams down), and go hunting again and not stop till I get a TC.

Don't be fooled, academic law isn't that integral to procedural law, or so I hear.

NoQuarter

chops018 wrote: »

Don't be fooled, academic law isn't that integral to procedural law, or so I hear.

Completely true.

BrBa

Thanks guys.

On the point re academic law - I am close to someone who has completed PPCI in Blackhall and is in the office of a big law firm and they have said the majority of their work, if not all, is done based on "on the job training/experience" which they have obtained within the department (maybe not research) and then procedural stuff they learnt in Blackhall.

While it's comforting to know I won't be at a disadvantage when (hopefully one day) a trainee just because I didn't do 3/4 years law at an undergrad, I was unsure whether corporate firms viewed it this way. I wouldn't expect anyone to take a punt on me without at least some exams or legal experience. Given my work schedule it's unlikely that I would attempt any FE1s until March 2014 but was hoping to attempt interview applications in late 2013 and use whatever course I do as a CV boost - otherwise my CV might look irrelevant to them at that stage.

Maybe I should look into the revision courses and attempt the Autumn sitting of FE1s (maybe try pass 3 out of 4 subjects, and use that on my CV)?

NoQuarter

BrBa wrote: »

Thanks guys.

On the point re academic law - I am close to someone who has completed PPCI in Blackhall and is in the office of a big law firm and they have said the majority of their work, if not all, is done based on "on the job training/experience" which they have obtained within the department (maybe not research) and then procedural stuff they learnt in Blackhall.

While it's comforting to know I won't be at a disadvantage when (hopefully one day) a trainee just because I didn't do 3/4 years law at an undergrad, I was unsure whether corporate firms viewed it this way. I wouldn't expect anyone to take a punt on me without at least some exams or legal experience. Given my work schedule it's unlikely that I would attempt any FE1s until March 2014 but was hoping to attempt interview applications in late 2013 and use whatever course I do as a CV boost - otherwise my CV might look irrelevant to them at that stage.

Maybe I should look into the revision courses and attempt the Autumn sitting of FE1s (maybe try pass 3 out of 4 subjects, and use that on my CV)?

Pop onto the big firms sites this month and apply for all their summer internships. You've nothing to lose but an hour or two on the applications. At least youll have a small idea of the responses you get in relation to getting a traineeship. I understand your CV is a bit irrelivant at the moment but sure its worth a try in any way.

BrBa

NoQuarter wrote: »

Pop onto the big firms sites this month and apply for all their summer internships. You've nothing to lose but an hour or two on the applications. At least youll have a small idea of the responses you get in relation to getting a traineeship. I understand your CV is a bit irrelivant at the moment but sure its worth a try in any way.

That sounds like a good idea actually.

Procrastastudy

A lot people doing academic law grab the KI or FE1 manuals an learn out of them anyway. If you want to become a solicitor go and do an FE1 prep course or barrister go to the Inns in my opinion. Inns Dip course is supposed to be PT in practice I think the workload is the same a FT degree somewhere like GCD.

Just be aware training contracts are like rocking horse droppings. Who knows you might even have an advantage coming from the non-traditional backgrounds.

Procrastastudy

Something that sprang to mind. If you are insistent on doing an academic law degree from scratch and are in your position of having a degree - do the FE1s alongside your law degree. I know a solicitor that did this after switching into law from Hospitality.

Hunchback

Now there is a seriously good idea!

chops018

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Something that sprang to mind. If you are insistent on doing an academic law degree from scratch and are in your position of having a degree - do the FE1s alongside your law degree. I know a solicitor that did this after switching into law from Hospitality.

+1.

randomchild

I did the pg dip in law and then did the fe-1s. I recommend it, the diploma has great lecturers and has an expansive amount of subjects, if you want to have credentials in non fe-1 subjects.

El Sid

Hi BrBa,

I'm in a relatively similar position to yourself. Finishing up my non-law undergrad this year and debating which route to go down with regards to doing the FE1s.

At the moment i’m leaning towards DIT over the professional law courses, if only that at least i’ll get PG Dip out of it at the end of the year. Also, if you ever want to go for a LLM, you’ll most likely need the Dip to qualify.

NoQuarter

Lads, take from this what you will but in my opinion, you are mad.

If I was in your shoes, Id just get the fe1 manuals and learn them cover to cover. If you dont have a law background, you may need to take the short prep courses to have some of the principles explained to you or even get someone to give you grinds, that would probably work out cheaper anyways and be 1 on 1.

Forget about academic law, if you pass the fe1s you know the law, simple as that.

Now the important part, during this time or after you get them, find a niche law course that interests you. There are lots of specialised post grad diplomas through the law society or do a commercial masters or something like that. Youll get to that position in half the time it takes to get the dip done and you will stand out from the very very large crowd with plain ole law.

Imo, if I looked at a CV with someone with 8 fe1s passed and a different degree, and a CV with 8 fe1s passed and a law degree, the non-law degree is right up there.

All of the above is premised on the solicitor route as a law degree/KI dip is essential for the Bar.

Thedogsgone

To add my tuppence worth.

I am currently doing the BA in Law in DIT which I am finding very good and it has hopefully put me on a path (albeit very slowly) to one day changing career and doing something in the Law. It essentially covers all 8 FE1 subjects plus a core module. It does take at least 2 years however and if you want to apply to Kings Inns you will have to continue on to the LLB.

However It may be worth considering if you have work committments during the day.