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Demographic weakness of non cultist populations
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17-01-2013 8:20pm#1Demographic weakness of non cultist populations
First of all I am an extreme Fanatical atheist, Bearing this in mind it most be acknowledged by all the demographic strength of populations enthralled and enslaved by cults.
Cultists populations have stronger families, stronger local communities ties and higher birth rates.
Atheist/agnostic populations have weaker smaller family's , weaker communities and lower birth rates
Name one majority atheist/agnostic society
with a birth rate higher than replacement level?
example German birth rate graph , note the birth rate collapse in 1960s as a result of the social changes of 1960's
How can an en-lighted free society based on Atheism, education, science, logic and rationality improve it's demographic position to make to population stronger and more sustainable?
I would suggest a holistic review of all issues especially the changes that occurred in society in 1960's although great for individuals the effect on society as a whole is clearly negative perhaps a new understanding of life-work-balance and gender roles can be found.
Surely we can build a society free from the cults but with strong and sustainable demographics?
Will your awaking and enlightenment only last a generation?
For example Richard Dawkins the famous atheist spokesman has only produced a single child from 3 marriages. Demographic FAIL MrD.0
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Cork boy 55 wrote: »Demographic weakness of non cultist populations
First of all I am an extreme Fanatical atheist, Bearing this in mind it most be acknowledged by all the demographic strength of populations enthralled and enslaved by cults.
Cultists populations have stronger families, stronger local communities ties and higher birth rates.
Atheist/agnostic populations have weaker smaller family's , weaker communities and lower birth rates
Name one majority atheist/agnostic society
with a birth rate higher than replacement level?
example German birth rate graph , note the birth rate collapse in 1960s as a result of the social changes of 1960's
How can an en-lighted free society based on Atheism, education, science, logic and rationality improve it's demographic position to make to population stronger and more sustainable?
I would suggest a holistic review of all issues especially the changes that occurred in society in 1960's although great for individuals the effect on society as a whole is clearly negative perhaps a new understanding of life-work-balance and gender roles can be found.
Surely we can build a society free from the cults but with strong and sustainable demographics?
Will your awaking and enlightenment only last a generation?
For example Richard Dawkins the famous atheist spokesman has only produced a single child from 3 marriages. Demographic FAIL MrD.
I think Nodin is right, it's hard to know where to begin there's so much fail here.
First of all, I don't believe for a second that you're actually an atheist.
Secondly, you want a majority atheistic society with a TFR above replacement level, fine, North Korea has a TFR of 2.01. Of course it all depends on what you conisder to be a majority atheist or non-religious society. It has been pointed out before in this forum that census data is notoriously unreliable. For example, France which is ostensibly 45% Christian has a very low church attendance of about 15% indicating that just like here who just put down Christian on the census form out of habit rather than belief.
Next, I'm not sure why you picked Germany as an example. Firstly, tracing the history of Germany as evidence of the effect of atheism on society is misleading since we're talking about state enforced atheism during the Cold War and not a demographic shift. Secondly, Germany today is a majority (c. 63%) Christian country and so is representative of, well, not much.
Finally, your argument is fundamentally flawed in several ways.
1. You don't understand the factors which influence population growth and total fertility rate. These factors are well understood and yet you have ignored them in favour of a crude correlation between religion and babies. The factors which influence TFR include economic growth, women in the workforce, women getting education, infant mortality rate and conflict.
2. You are making the implicit assumption that the world's population needs to grow. It doesn't. Even if all countries were to be reduced to replacement level right now, the global population would still continue to grow to 10 billion before it stopped.
3. You are making an appeal to consequence of a belief, which is a logical fallacy. You seem to be suggesting that since religion has a beneficial effect (which it doesn't) on society that we should believe in it.
Finally, to explain in detail why your analysis is bogus, here's Hans Rosling:
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I think Nodin is right, it's hard to know where to begin there's so much fail here.
First of all, I don't believe for a second that you're actually an atheist.
Secondly, you want a majority atheistic society with a TFR above replacement level, fine, North Korea has a TFR of 2.01. ....snip..... Secondly, Germany today is a majority (c. 63%) Christian country and so is representative of, well, not much.
Finally, your argument is fundamentally flawed in several ways.
1. You don't understand the factors which influence population growth and total fertility rate. These factors are well understood and yet you have ignored them in favour of a crude correlation between religion and babies. The factors which influence TFR include economic growth, women in the workforce, women getting education, infant mortality rate and conflict.
2. You are making the implicit assumption that the world's population needs to grow. It doesn't. Even if all countries were to be reduced to replacement level right now, the global population would still continue to grow to 10 billion before it stopped.
3. You are making an appeal to consequence of a belief, which is a logical fallacy. You seem to be suggesting that since religion has a beneficial effect (which it doesn't) on society that we should believe in it.
Yes I am an atheist
North Korea is a freak country IMO
IMO Germany is Post-1960's is an Atheist/agnostic country :cool:
1)
Yes I do understand the all the factors( I never mentioned any) many for example the liberation of woman for example is correlated to decline in religious orders powers.
All these factors are interrelated increased wealth causes education causes atheism.
I was just making the point that religious people/societies have stronger demographics than non-irreligious ones societies I will add a generally speaking
I think that's a fair thing to say. It not just birth rate other issues like divorce
and looking after the elderly and stronger local communities IMO
This is the atheist forum!
Orthodox jews in Israel have stronger demographics than secular jews for example.
2)
There is no problem globally with demographics clearly but I think its fair to say that some local countries have issues like parts of Europe, South Korea Japan etc and governments are introducing polices all over the place to address it. Also within some countries religious communities are growing at the expense of secular ones like the Orthodox Jews in Israel for example.
I was not advocating a baby boom just sustainable and stronger communities.
3)
No I did not say that.
Never said that we should believe in a sky fairy because it may give stronger demographics just pointing out that Atheist populations are weaker than cults populations ones in certain marco areas and calling for a rational holistic review of the structure of society.
Just because we despise religion does not mean we should not acknowledge that it may have macro benefits if we believe they exist
You seem to have assumed I am someone I am not and then said things I did not say.
O will refine my point
I think its fair to say that while acknowledging the other factors
(wealth, birth control technology, education) that the more religious
a population is the stronger the demographics, families and communities are,
We as atheists should acknowledge this weakness and address it in a scientific and rational fashion in order to maintain sustainable populations and social cohesion as the old order dies away.0 -
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Maybe you should have a read of this post.Cork boy 55 wrote: »Yes I am an atheist
IMO Germany is Post-1960's is an Atheist/agnostic country :cool:.Speigel Online wrote:A 25-year-old possible rape victim was reportedly refused a basic exam at two Catholic hospitals in Cologne last month.0 -
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I submit that cultish societies breeding policies are directly related to the rise of atheists.
Huh?Where else have they come from?
Less of the THEY darling.
We spring from the lilywhite loins of devout Roman Catholic ladies, just like homosexuals do.The church needs to wake up to this!
Which church?stop breeding now!
Good advice, I wish theists would follow it, or at least allow non-believers access to contraception and abortion so the godly types can outbreed us
In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.
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How odd. How does that work? Do you wear a uniform while not going to mass? I'm an atheist too, but I wasn't aware there were levels. How do you manage to extremely fanatically not believe in something. I just get on with my life. Am I letting the side down? I'm confused.Cork boy 55 wrote: »First of all I am an extreme Fanatical atheist,
Have you considered sitting down with a nice cup of tea? Things are always easier after a nice cup of tea.
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I've just had an interesting thought OP. We used to have a regularly intermittent visiting poster over her called J C. I don't know if you've come across him at all...? Anyway, if it could be arranged, would you be up for having a one-on-one debate with him. We could set up a thread specially? You could get it all off your chest? That would be cool, and probably very entertaining.
If ye ever met and shook hands, I bet you'd both just pop out of existence in a sparkly fizzle of +outrage meeting -outrage! Now that would be a funny youtube clip...
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