Is a demo in UDK enough to present to a Game Development Studio looking for a job?

actuallylike

How do,

9 months ago, I decided to focus my career on game development. I have an engineering degree that gave me the basics in coding and 3d modelling and the programs used for this. I wrangled my way into a software development internship for the last 8 months and I've been learning C++ as well (VB was the language I used but it's not really applicable in the gaming industry).

Anyway, they say that your education isn't worth a damn unless you can put together a demo. Well, although my C++ skills have greatly improved, there's still a while until I can put that into practice in the gaming field. I'm looking for a quick way into the industry at this stage as there's only so much I can learn on my own. I took a look at UDK and warmed to it pretty quickly. Very similar to the programs I'm used to in engineering. I can put together a level pretty easily in it.

For the intricate details, I know different programs are needed (Maya, etc.). I have never used these but I can whip up any intricate designs in Solidworks which I think I can probably transfer over.

Basically, would a level of my own, encorporating all elements (lighting, terrain, objects, etc.) be enough for a demo to show to a developer? Is this too basic? Any advice would be appreciated.

Colonel Panic

Depends on the job. For a programming job, you'd be better off having a little portfolio of demo code on GitHub and a blog talking about development.

Esterhase

A demo of a whole level would be great to have. It doesn't need to look fancy. You're not an artist so they would not be looking for intricate designs, nice 3D models and the like.

Having said that, I think you might be better off creating a number of small specialized demos rather than one large one. For example, one demo showing off shaders/visual effects, one demonstrating a simple physics simulation, one showing collision detection, a blackjack sim etc. The demo code doesn't even need to be specifically game related; things like finite state machines, networking, efficient data structures are all useful too.

It would be best if the bulk of your code is in C++, but there should be no problem submitting code in other languages if you have any useful stuff from college assignments. For a junior dev role, they won't expect you to be an expert in any particular language (you'll need decent C++ though), they'll want to know that you have an understanding of basic software development and maths.

srsly78

I have an Ogre3D demo in my portfolio from years ago, I also have some opengl-es demos I can run on my phone to demonstrate. These come in useful for ANY development interview, not just game development ones.

satchmo

Like Colonel Panic said, it depends on the job. What area of game development are you looking to get into?

If you're looking for a level design job, then what you describe might be worth showing. But even then, the emphasis should be on playability (eg., "This is a level for an FPS - here's a choke point, here's a sniper spot, here's a good place for an ambush, etc.") and how play would flow through the level, more than how nice it looks. If you spent a lot of your time on the textures or models, then you're doing yourself a disservice - that's what texture artists and 3d modellers are hired for.

If it's for a programming job then they won't be interested in what you've put together using the Unreal engine, unless the meat of the demo is in a C++ DLL that you've written yourself. Potential employers will be more interested in the code than the end-product. If I'm interviewing two candidates for a junior programming job, one who has done a very nice-looking demo level using only UDK tools and UnrealScript, and the other who has written a fairly simple multithreaded scheduling system, I'm going to be much more interested in candidate B. He's shown that he understands what goes into making a game, and that he has skills that can be applied to a real game programming job.

Basically a demo is definitely a nice thing to show, but you have to consider how applicable what you're showing is to the job you want to get.

actuallylike

Thanks everyone for the replies. The area I'd like to get into would be the area that incorporate my strengths, 3D modelling, coding and physics/maths. the UDK demo I liked because the program came naturally to me but it doesn't really incorporate any of my strengths apart from the use of 3d rendering software. I initially thought my strengths would point in part to a collision detection area (coding and maths I imagine are a big factor of this) so Havok was the obvious choice. And as I said, my C++ skills have greatly increased but the link from C++ to Game Design is still that little bit beyond me.

I guess a UDK level looks good to the layman but at the end of the day the area I want to get into is the nuts and bolts of design, not the presentation so perhaps this isn't the way to go. I was told a simple game (pacman/tetris) made entirely in C++ would be a sufficient demo but as I said, this is still a little beyond me. The UDK demo I could have done by the end of the month. I really want to be surrounded by the industry while I still hone my C++ ability so I think I'll concentrate the next two weeks on a demo in UDK incorporating everything I know (I have a level design book in transit to me as we speak so I'll take the advice in construction from that) and see how I go from there. Thanks again everyone.

satchmo

The thing is, unless you're going to be part of a small (<10 people) indie team, you're not going to have to do both C++ and game design at the same time. Those are two very different disciplines, and are rarely covered by the same person in game teams of any decent size. Game programmers only write code, whereas game designers only write documents, spreadsheets, and in-game scripts. Of course this is a simplified view, but programmers and designers don't have much overlap - if you're trying to be both, you're not going to get a job being either.

If you're looking to get into the nuts and bolts, this means C++ alright. But if you wouldn't feel comfortable writing a simple game like Asteroids by yourself, then unfortunately I don't think it's realistic to hope you're going to get a job in games while you work on your coding skills. It'll have to be the other way around - work on your skills first, then use them to get a job. And that means ignoring the UDK/game design aspect, and concentrating on coding. Especially if you want to work somewhere like Havok - game design is irrelevant to them, they're only looking for good coders with solid maths skills.

By all means, read up on game design and incorporate some of those ideas into any game you write yourself. Even programmers need to have a good idea of what makes games playable and fun. But always keep in mind that if you're writing the game as a portfolio piece for a programming job, there are only really two things you are showing off - the quality of the code, and your ability to manage yourself and finish a project. Concentrate more on those, and less on everything else.

Of course if you want to go out on your own and make your own games, all the above goes out the window. Then you need to know how to be a programmer, designer, modeller, texturer, and many other things besides. But that doesn't sound like the direction you want to go.

actuallylike

satchmo wrote: »

Of course if you want to go out on your own and make your own games, all the above goes out the window. Then you need to know how to be a programmer, designer, modeller, texturer, and many other things besides. But that doesn't sound like the direction you want to go.

Correct, I want to be part of a large scale team to be honest. I just don't trust myself in an independent role. I think I would need discipline from above, always have. I really have no problem been a gear in the machine, at least until I understand the industry (which as you've all probably guessed, I know jack all). I think you're right and i may need to knock the coding on the head for a while. Although I was good at it in college, warmed to it better than most, we really didn't spend enough time on it in the broad engineering education. To focus on a coding section of game development I know I would be competing with people that have coded from a young age and do nothing but code. I just can't compete with that right now.

The design part is what I would be more suited too at the moment but I would love to pursue the programming side of it but realistically speaking that's just not going to happen at the moment. I'm moving to London in a month and I want to have something for applications then. I guess the sensible thing would be to push aside the C++ books and concentrate solely on design because in a perfect world I could have all the time in the world but that's not reality. I'll have to think about my options right now but thanks everyone for your replies. Got some great info.

Tiddlypeeps

actuallylike wrote: »

Correct, I want to be part of a large scale team to be honest. I just don't trust myself in an independent role. I think I would need discipline from above, always have. I really have no problem been a gear in the machine, at least until I understand the industry (which as you've all probably guessed, I know jack all). I think you're right and i may need to knock the coding on the head for a while. Although I was good at it in college, warmed to it better than most, we really didn't spend enough time on it in the broad engineering education. To focus on a coding section of game development I know I would be competing with people that have coded from a young age and do nothing but code. I just can't compete with that right now.

The design part is what I would be more suited too at the moment but I would love to pursue the programming side of it but realistically speaking that's just not going to happen at the moment. I'm moving to London in a month and I want to have something for applications then. I guess the sensible thing would be to push aside the C++ books and concentrate solely on design because in a perfect world I could have all the time in the world but that's not reality. I'll have to think about my options right now but thanks everyone for your replies. Got some great info.

Getting into game design can be tough. Fewer designers are usually required on a project than any other role and it's often the job most people want to do so competition can be fierce.

I would disagree with what everybody else is saying about programming, I don't think you need as much as they say. It totally depends on what you actually want to work on.

If you want to work on a large triple A game then the job a UDK demo is likely to get you would be game play programming, which involves a lot of scripting and not really a lot of if any C++. An understanding of game design would also make you more desirable for that role because you would be directly implementing a lot of what a designer requests and interpreting that information correctly can sometimes be difficult.

If you want to work on a game engine or developing tools then you will need strong language skills. Typically C++ for engine stuff and C# or similar for tools stuff.

In my opinion the easiest place to get a job in games at the moment, both in Ireland and the UK, is mobile. It's also much easier to put together a half decent portfolio for mobile than it is for larger console/PC games. Unity 3D would probably be the easiest way to put something together for that, although if memory serves I think UDK might now have mobile support? Unity is probably more desirable in the mobile space especially in Ireland at the moment.

Worth considering anyway because the skills you learn developing for mobile can translate fairly well to larger games. It's a nice stepping stone with a shallower learning curve.

C++ isn't the most important thing in the world anymore. It's a great thing to have on your CV because it's one of the toughest languages to learn but it's not used nearly as much as it used to be. C# has become very popular in recent years too. I can only think of two games companies in Ireland at the moment that you would need strong C++ for, Havoc and Playfirst. All the others I can think of require either Objective-C, C# or Javascript. There is a heavy focus on mobile in the Irish games industry tho.

If you have your heart set on game design then your best approach for that is probably to get a job doing QA in a games company you would like to work with. Prove yourself in that role by making good suggestions and you have a good chance of getting promoted to a junior designer position. I don't know any designers who have gotten to where they are any other way. I only know 5/6 designers tho so that could be just a coincidence.

satchmo

I've always known gameplay programmers to be much more engine coders than scripters, but I'm sure it varies from place to place and depends on the engine being used.

Some great suggestions there, you're much more likely to get your foot in the door going for mobile jobs than doing UDK levels and trying to go straight into AAA. Mobile probably gives you a much better chance of doing both programming and design too.

Also Unity is a good idea - I don't know the numbers, but based on the licensing/royalty setup I'm sure there are a much larger number of studios using Unity than UDK. And if you like UDK, you'll love Unity.