Seborrheic Dermatitis

AdamOHare

I wasnt sure where to put this... but I think it might be OK here.

I found out last week I have seborrheic dermatitis. Not that it really matters what the doctors chose to call it as I have being successfully treating it with selsun for years now. Amongst my social circles Im the only person that has it (or anything close to it). But what has gotten me curious is the experts reckon Im not alone and that its actually a very very common ailment, and a lot of times, remains undiagnosed for decades.

Since its apparently so common I thought maybe Id ask here, does anybody else have it? Is it really that common? What are you using for it? Hows it working out? Any hints/tips or tricks to share?


(Incase you may be one of these undiagnosed people wondering just what the hell is seborrheic dermatitis, in my own experience as soon as my scalp/face gets greasey in the slightest (read: skip a daily shower some time) then I break out. My face and scalp goes red, itchy, flaky like a very thick dandruff and just a horrible greasey feeling all over.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i have rosacea and seb derm is a pretty common add-on that is sometimtes installed with it. i've been treating mine with honey for the past two or three weeks and it's a lot better than it was. rosacea is still rosacea but the seb derm is pretty much gone, or at least so reduced compared to what it was that I don't even notice anymore.

AdamOHare

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

i have rosacea and seb derm is a pretty common add-on that is sometimtes installed with it. i've been treating mine with honey for the past two or three weeks and it's a lot better than it was. rosacea is still rosacea but the seb derm is pretty much gone, or at least so reduced compared to what it was that I don't even notice anymore.

Yeh I have tried the manuka honey in the past myself but I find it a bit hit and miss. Im glad its working out for you What brand of honey did you use?

I was using Manuka Doctor (from memory I think its 20+, its kinda pricey though at nearly 40euro a jar from H&B :eek: )

BTW: I read online a lot of people have had great success stories from shaving their heads. Not sure I'd fancy it myself... especially since my Seb Derm is fairly controllable.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

oh yeah i shave my head too. started getting real bad dandruf a while back so I just decided to shave it all off and see if that helped. it did, plus it makes my scalp easier to moisturise.

i dont use a particular brand of honey...just grabbed a squeezy bottle of some organic brand. that irish one I think. it's worked well enough for me that I don't need to moisturise after a shower anymore. before i started using the honey the only thing I'd really found that did any good was coconut oil and that was a bit time consuming, waiting for it to soak in and it was actually ages before I realised I could just wipe the excess off instead of waiting a couple of hours for it all to soak in.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Esoteric_

Don't have any form of dermatitis myself, thankfully. A few friends have, and they swear by Lush's Dream Cream. It's fairly pricey (around 13 euro for a small tub), but according to them, it works wonders.

Piliger

Is this medical advice ? I hope not ... just my experience. I myself found that mine was greatly influenced by my diet ... especially dairy and sugar. I found Cocois very effective once I reduced the guilty food.

fighterman

I had SD until a few weeks ago, having had the condition for about the last five years.

For the last three weeks, my skin has cleared up completely and the sides of my nose, in between my eyebrows, the eyebrows myself, and my chest area are amazingly free of flaking.

Delighted. Because as anyone who has had it knows, it looks terrible.

It's only been a few weeks so I can't say that I've gotten rid it for sure but I am hopeful that I have stumbled on the cause.

One of the posters above alluded to it and I now believe it is a dietary issue.

For the last month since Christmas, I've given up wheat, dairy and sugar. A bit extreme but it does seem to have done the trick. I do not believe that all three are the cause but something amongst those three groups must trigger off my SD.

I would agree with most of what is said in the link below

http://www.seborrheic-dermatitis.co.uk/?page_id=2

Only after changing my diet to one consisting entirely of natural, unprocessed foods did I see a solution after five years of trying various surface treatments.

I hope the moderators do not construe this as medical advice, because all advice given by medical practicioners is to use topical treatments like creams to cure the condition. This does not, in my opinion, address the cause of the problem and is akin to painting the cracks on a wall.

Call Me Jimmy

So then, what do you eat? No bread? Meat?

fighterman

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

So then, what do you eat? No bread? Meat?

Meat, veg, fruit. There's a diet called the Paleo diet which, if adhered to rigidly, is a little extreme and anti-social. But I do believe that the root cause of a lot of individual's skin conditions is dietary.

Having tried for five or six years to find a cure to my own SD (which looks desperate, as anyone who has suffered from it knows) this is the first lasting cure I have stumbled upon.

I also think if I had visited 100 GP's or dermatologists, not one would have prescribed this as a cure to my issue.

Not saying diet is going to cure 100% of cases of SD, but you're not going to be less healthy in any case by avoiding processed foods and sticking to a natural foods diet.

Piliger

fighterman wrote: »

Meat, veg, fruit. There's a diet called the Paleo diet which, if adhered to rigidly, is a little extreme and anti-social. But I do believe that the root cause of a lot of individual's skin conditions is dietary.

Having tried for five or six years to find a cure to my own SD (which looks desperate, as anyone who has suffered from it knows) this is the first lasting cure I have stumbled upon.

I also think if I had visited 100 GP's or dermatologists, not one would have prescribed this as a cure to my issue.

Not saying diet is going to cure 100% of cases of SD, but you're not going to be less healthy in any case by avoiding processed foods and sticking to a natural foods diet.

Great news. Mine is not 'exactly' the same as yours but one thing I would say is (based on my experience over 30 years now) that as you clear out your system of the poison from the offending foods and your skin gets better - beware that you also become MORE sensitive to the guilty foods. However the affects will also pass quicker.
Over time the discipline will test you every day and you will give in from time to time ... but you will also learn which ones affect you most and which ones you can live with having a little taste of now and then.

Good luck.

Call Me Jimmy

I think it would be helpful for myself and other sufferers if you's could name some of the biggest dietary triggers in your own life (I know everyone's different) so we can benefit from your experience and maybe try it ourselves?

Obviously loads of sugary crap is not good but are there any slightly less obvious ones along the lines of say wheat etc. that people wouldn't necessary think are 'bad' foods?

Piliger

Everyone can be different - but for me it all surrounds dairy and cereal (and flour) and yeast. Sugar feeds yeast.....and sausages have yeast too. Chocolate is the nuclear bomb

Call Me Jimmy

Piliger wrote: »

Everyone can be different - but for me it all surrounds dairy and cereal (and flour) and yeast. Sugar feeds yeast.....and sausages have yeast too. Chocolate is the nuclear bomb

Well there's absolutely no way I could give up rashers/sausages at this stage, they keep me alive! :P And yeast by itself what would that usually come in? I take it you eat very little bread?

Thanks for the answer by the way

Piliger

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Well there's absolutely no way I could give up rashers/sausages at this stage, they keep me alive! :P And yeast by itself what would that usually come in? I take it you eat very little bread?

No bread. No sausages except on occasions. I avoid free sugar, pastry etc.

It's all about balance. How bad the skin thing is VS how bad avoiding a few food things is.

I am lucky now though. I suffered a major Psoriatic arthritis thing several years ago (directly related to psoriasis) and my joints seized up. But I got in to see the great team in Vincents who put me on Methotrexate, which suppresses the immune system. The joints are fantastic now and a side effect is that it cures 80-90% of the skin problem. I still have to avoid bread and sugar etc. but the effects are not nearly as real.

That is NOT medical advice - only relating what happened with me.

Call Me Jimmy

Piliger wrote: »

No bread. No sausages except on occasions. I avoid free sugar, pastry etc.

It's all about balance. How bad the skin thing is VS how bad avoiding a few food things is.

I am lucky now though. I suffered a major Psoriatic arthritis thing several years ago (directly related to psoriasis) and my joints seized up. But I got in to see the great team in Vincents who put me on Methotrexate, which suppresses the immune system. The joints are fantastic now and a side effect is that it cures 80-90% of the skin problem. I still have to avoid bread and sugar etc. but the effects are not nearly as real.

That is NOT medical advice - only relating what happened with me.

Bread is probably the biggest problem for me, I live on the stuff (in different forms). I actually don't know how to come up with breakfast lunches etc. without it but admittedly I've not given it a world of thought.

Just out of curiosity is that medication now permanent?

mathepac

I've had similar experiences to those listed - prescribed useless steroid creams, etc but no review of diet / lifestyle and no mention of food or ingredient sensitivity.

For me, my dietary choices were kinda complicated by another condition. The wheat, dairy and sugar mentioned above all feed the yeast culture at the root of most SD infections.

If I eat out I can get a flare-up which I control using diet and washing (hair, face & chest) with the Uriage D.S. washing preparation and moisturising with the emulsion (Uriage makes a range of cosmetic non-prescription skin treatments) Their D.S. range works for me better and quicker than any of the steroids used to. The Uriage stuff is expensive at about €12 for the wash and the same for the moisturiser.

Sunshine helped me as well. I'd routinely shave my head and eyebrows on sun holidays for a bit of relief.

So that's my cosmetic and dietary advice for today and no medicines, diagnoses or medical advice given.

Piliger

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Bread is probably the biggest problem for me, I live on the stuff (in different forms). I actually don't know how to come up with breakfast lunches etc. without it but admittedly I've not given it a world of thought.

Move on to something else. It's worth it. Life does go on :-)

Just out of curiosity is that medication now permanent?

Yes. Just a few tabs once a week. But I now move like a 40yo, instead of a 50+yo

Call Me Jimmy

Piliger wrote: »

Move on to something else. It's worth it. Life does go on :-)

Yes. Just a few tabs once a week. But I now move like a 40yo, instead of a 50+yo

Aye I just don't quite have the discipline yet but it's something I'm working on. Having said that, my parents always go for breakfast on a saturday morning and bring me back the absolute top breakfast roll you can imagine so in a few hours i'll be wolfin' it.

I was very harsh on my skin externally as a teenager, I used to scrub the **** out of the areas around my nose and I've gone the other way in adulthood which means that often it probably hasn't been as clean as it should be.

I've tried every combination of medical/homemade treatments you can imagine. At the moment it's vaseline-honey plus my ma's toner. The toner is actually having a good effect because I tried to keep alcohol free for the past few years but my skin was getting out of hand moisturiser-wise and if I scrub in anyway my skin nearly bleeds!

EDIT: And it's looking like diet/exercise will be next. I think it might often get overlooked because it is the real hard work that probably would cure 90% of cases (well not cure but change the nature of the illness) but as we all know hard work is hard and its easier just to blame lack of success on doctors/creams

Piliger

Again my issues may not be your issues and this is NOT medical advice, but I offer these bits of experience of MY skin:

- The side of the nose thing: Wash gently EVERY day and make sure the dry skin comes off - DON'T scrub it ... soak it and slide it off. Then apply a non-allergenic moisturiser like "Simple - hydrating light moisturiser". This worked VERY well for me and if I don't do it, it starts to revert.
- Generally: The key is removing the scales. They really seem to be active agents of spreading in and of themselves, if you know what I mean. The solution I FOUND is using a softening cream such as Dovonex in the morning and then 45 minute baths in the evening - twice a week to start with. NOT hard scrubbing ... long soaking. Remove the scales with circular firm motion, and after drying, but BEFORE the skin dries, apply whatever cream your derm people advise. I find COCOIS very effective at this stage. It's cheap and non prescription. It stings at first but over time it is very effective at reducing inflammation and hence scale forming.

However - in MY experience, if your food is poisoning us at the same time, this treatment will barely hold back the tide. It is critical to start cutting back on the nasties - and by the way it takes a full month for any cutback to show results. The body is so full of it, it takes time to recover.

Call Me Jimmy

Yea I've also tried different techniques as you said like not scrubbing but trying to get the scales off through soaking etc. but I can't remember the outcome.

Today I'm trying cucumber for the first time.

I think you're right about the diet though, I don't think I can ignore it any longer.

Piliger

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

but I can't remember the outcome.

Someone is getting old ........ :cool:

I think you're right about the diet though, I don't think I can ignore it any longer.

Do it. In my experience also ..... this is all about momentum. If you can cut stuff out for a few weeks ... you start gaining strength and can keep going. Do it

JoePie

Mine showed up about... 2 years (?????) ago at this stage. I got really into hats, so I thought it was that at first. Not getting enough sunlight or something. Well, that wasn't the case anyway.

Strangely enough, I was at my GP 2 or 3 times with it, and he was telling me the right meds to get, but never once gave me the name of what I had.

Only get it on scalp really. It's shown up briefly down the side of my firehead once or twice, and my eyebrows seem to get a bit flakey every 2 months or so.

Nizoral was prescribed to me, but I found it did nothing except extend my time in the shower and leave me with smelly hair. In my experience anyway, slapping a big load of Cocois on before I go to bed (stick a towel on my pillow, wash it out in the morning), seems to clear it up for a few days.

I'm using some other ointment I can't remember the name of very intermittently at the moment. Not sure if it's doing anything.

Overall, my seb derm isn't haslf as bad as it was when it first showed up, but I'm still an absolute divil for scratching. I did notice that when I started eating somewhat better after college, it did get a little better, easier to manage, etc.

I used to shave my head to force myself to not scratch so the scabs would heal up, but that I ended up being a lost cause. Now I just rock a sweet do instead.

Also, I;m pretty sure I saw some rugby player or something fronting a campaign to get more people to talk about this recently.... Can't find it online. Definitely remember hearing something on newstalk a few weeks ago.

Again, this is all stuff I've experienced.

fighterman

In my experience, any of the prescribed topical creams are useless. As I said previously, they are akin to painting the cracks on a wall and do not address the issue which I believe is internal and diet-related.

If I were you (and I had the SD condition for about 5 or 6 years myself), I would experiment with a Paleo type diet. Even if it doesn't cure the condition, you won't be any less healthy anyway.

Can always go back to your old diet after a few weeks in any case.

Piliger

fighterman wrote: »

In my experience, any of the prescribed topical creams are useless

Well to be fair they are not prescribed to cure the problem. They are prescribed to alleviate the symptoms and they do that, on the whole.

Remember that modern medecine still doesn't really understand psoriasis and it's causes and is in denial about it's connection with food.

I agree with you about exploring the diet - it is critical. After 25 years with Psoriasis - though not the exact same as SD - I can testify to have absolutely no doubt.

BlazingSaddler

Hi all. I have been suffering with Seb Derm & Rosacea for almost 20 years now, for a number of years I treated the scaling around my nose / cheeks with a hydrocortisone cream - Big mistake - It was prescribed in the early days, probably just for 14 days but I kept on using it, almost daily. It ended up thinning the skin and is probably responsible for permanent redness. The diet tips that people have discussed are probably on the money, I have never gone as far as eradicating dairy, wheat and sugar all at once, although this may be worth trying. I have focussed on spicy foods, hot drinks, alcohol in the past and it has helped but not been the definitive solution. I also find tomatoes / pizzas cause flare ups.
I now use La Roche Posay Rosaliac on and around the nose morning and night (this also contains an SPF), it has been excellent for me and the best moisturiser that I have used in the 20 years. It really seems to keep the scaling at bay and is fairly good with the redness. I have started a course of laser treatment, 1 down 3 or 4 remaining so I'll report back on this after each treatment. Fairly pleased with the first.
Can anybody recommend decent snacking alternatives, I am a devil for the crisps and biscuits which must go, I suppose these should be replaced with fruit but I get so bored with apples & bananas and wouldn't be too keen on other fruits. Also any tips on replacing bread?, would wraps do the job?

fighterman

I guess it depends on how much you want to get rid of the Seb Derm.

Having eliminated wheat, dairy and sugar for a few weeks, I have gradually re-introduced dairy which I don't think is a problem for me.

Think the main culprits for me are sugar, either refined, or the sugar contained in biscuits, chocolate bars, sweets etc and wheat in the likes of pizzas, rolls and sliced pans.

I think they are the biggest triggers for my flare-ups.

http://thepaleodiet.com/

Try this for a few weeks and I'm sure you will notice improvements. It is extreme, but it all boils down to how much you wish to get rid of the SD. It's a very healthy diet in any case so even if it doesn't work you can revert back to your old diet after a few weeks and you're not going to be any worse off.

Topical creams may alleviate the redness or dryness, but they're not addressing the main problem in any way, which I am convinced is diet-related.

This guy Dr. Perricone would seem to support the views of me and other contributors that this problem is diet-related.

http://www.peertrainer.com/diet/dr_perricone_diet.htm

Dr. Perricone presents himself as a radical in the dermatological community, repeatedly encouraging his audience to challenge the status quo. He compares his work relating diet to skincare with Ignaz Semmelweis's work on handwashing and the spread of disease in the 1800s. Most dermatologists simply perscribe drugs, rather than work to get to the root cause of your problem. His views are mostly aligned with Dr Joel Fuhrman, author of "Eat to Live." Dr. Fuhrman views proper diet as critical to both preventing and reversing many diseases. Interestingly both doctors have come under fire from the medical and pharma establishement.

The bit in bold applies 100% to Irish GP's and dermatologists I have met.


Best of luck with it!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah my rosacea is a lot better since I went paleo (well, paleo ish.. i'm not giving up my legumes) . I'm still incredibly red after a shower but after I moisturise it's normalised after an hour or so. still flare up occasionally but on the whole it's far more manageable now and my biggest problem area of around the nostrils is grand these days. still red but no flaking or thick skin.


so far for me, good diet, honey as a wash and then coconut oil as a moisturiser.. seems to do the job.

I still have to look into various supplements which are good for skin and all that jazz, but seeing as how these are both life long conditions I figure I've got plenty of time to do that.

fighterman

From a situation of very bad seborrheic dermatitis for five or six years up till a few months ago, I can now, as I type this, run my finger along both sides of my nose and feel smooth skin. No flaking skin, amazing! That will obviously sound a bit bizarre to anyone who has not suffered from SD but to me it's great!

As discussed before, the medical profession I believe is rather unhelpful when it comes to dealing with this, resorting to residual advice regarding the use of topical creams and various shampoos like Nizoral and T-Gel. As I have said before, this advice I believe is akin to painting the cracks on a wall rather than addressing the cause of the cracks.

The cure which works for me is, I believe, 90% related to diet (factors like stress do I'm sure play a part in skin condition, but the SD itself is mostly diet-related I believe). When I completely avoid wheat and sugar, I am free of seborrheic dermatitis. When I stray from that, I get flaking.

A guy called Dr. William Davis in the US has written a book called 'Wheat Belly' (he has a blog called wheatbellyblog.com which I'm sure touches upon all the topics of the book in any case)

Below is a typical blog post expressing delight at the changes the individual had noticed since going wheat-free.

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2013/02/the-happy-coincidences-of-wheatlessness/

Dr. Davis' comments afterwards are interesting.

'But what really caught my attention were all the stories people following this wheat-free lifestyle began telling me: complete and nearly immediate relief from acid reflux, disappearance of bowel urgency, relief from wrist and hand pain, improved mood, deeper sleep, no more mental “fog” or afternoon energy slumps. People with rheumatoid arthritis reported dramatic improvement, sometimes outright cure. People with ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease reported marked reduction in cramps, diarrhea, and even hemorrhage; many were able to stop 1, 2, or all 3 drugs used to treat the conditions. Asthmatics pitched their inhalers. People with depression felt their moods lifting for the first time in years, many getting off antidepressants. Men and women reported improved sex drive. A wide variety of rashes, especially seborrhea and psoriasis, as well as acne and dandruff, went away, even after years of salves, shampoos, and steroid creams. People with bulimia and binge eating disorder reported complete loss of around-the-clock food obsessions that had plagued them for decades.'

The bits in bold are those I have experienced myself, even the sex drive bit!

I also in a previous post mentioned a guy called Perricone in the US who discusses the effects of sugar on skin inflammation. His blog is also worth reading.

So to conclude my own personal findings

Wheat-free, Sugar-free - No SD

Regular diet - typical flaking at sides of nose, between eyebrows, chest, behind ears, dandruff

fighterman

Won't go into what I do eat but will discuss some of the foods which seem to trigger off flaking, Pilger seems to have had similar experiences.

Chocolate bars.
Sugar (in tea, cereal etc.)
Bread
Beer
Pizza
Pasta
Crisps

fighterman

I also experienced some of these symptoms during my withdrawal from wheat, dairy ( I am still not certain if dairy is atrigger for SD) and sugar

http://www.livestrong.com/article/519102-what-are-the-withdrawal-phases-of-gluten/

So it's short-term pain for long term gain!

BlazingSaddler

Hi all, has anybody tries dead sea salt?, a number of people seem to swear by it for seb derm. I have had the worst few months of the condition that I have ever had, the dry skin, flaking around the jaw has been incredibly stubborn. The only thing that seems to touch it is hydrocortisone, however this aggravates the Rosacea with me so it's a vicious circle. At this stage I have given up on Dermatologists who I have literally spent thousands with over the years.
<snip>

stateofflux

its not just diet. stress and lack of sleep also trigger it for me.

for me...
diet:i try to cut out yeast breads and milk and sweets

nizoral shampoo is the only thing that fixes bad flare up on head and face

Cortizone 1% is ok for sd small patches but you cant use it regular as it can ruin your skin

the only moisturizer i can use is the special SD one (kerium DS) by laroche posay ,all the rest (tried dozens, e45 etc) caused red and painful irritation.

Thats my tactics for this annoying as fcuk condition..oh this might seem weird but it goes away pretty fast when you are having regular sex...im no doctor...:)