The Nikon D4 Vs the D800 - Weighing them up

ImagenEstilo

For those looking at either camera I stuck a little article on my website that may be of interest to people. It's long enough but may be of interest to those weighing up the merits of either camera. (This ain't spam it is a genuine article)

The Nikon D4 vs D800

On another note, I was in Dixons in Terminal 2 Dublin Airport there this week and the prices they have on the D800 body are excellent €2200 with Nikon cashback. Some of their lens prices are excellent as well. The Nikon 24-70 is probably the cheapest I have seen it - €1380. I had to rub my eyes, I thought the 3 was a 5 but it was a 3!!

"So, the third big thing for me was the megapixel count of the D800."

ImagenEstilo

^^^^^:rolleyes:

Leftyflip

Megapixels mean sweet fúck all with a dSLR - My 6mp Nikon D100, takes just as good an image is my 12.3mp D90. Anything over 14mp is pointless in my book, file sizes start to become ridiculous. Besides, you can make the RAW file upwards of 20mp in Camera RAW anyway - with great results.

ImagenEstilo

You see, it is posts like this that get on my wick. Anoraks reading too much on the internet thinking they know it all, when the internet says anything above 14MP is a waste then it must be true

Oh, and file size is a completely separate topic.

Splinters

Id typically agree with most DSLR's the megapixel count is one of the lesser important specs, however in the case of the D800 where you are talking about 36 megapixel, it really does equate to significantly more image detail. Even when those images are downsized to the equivelant of an 18 or 21 megapixel sensor they still have more detail at 100% crop. Theres a ton of reviews of the D800 out there, all of which confirm this.

Leftyflip

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

You see, it is posts like this that get on my wick. Anoraks reading too much on the internet thinking they know it all, when the internet says anything above 14MP is a waste then it must be true

Oh, and file size is a completely separate topic.

Oh no - you didn't like what I had to say so automatically you presume I read it somewhere and that I know it all.

Fact - I do not know it all, I never said that anything over 14mp is a waste is true, I said it was my opinion. Your response tells me all I need to know. This is a place of discussion, where everyone is allowed have an opinion and input.

ImagenEstilo

Woah, hold on there Lefty, let's not backtrack here. I think it is fair to say

Leftyflip wrote: »

Megapixels mean sweet fúck all with a dSLR - My 6mp Nikon D100, takes just as good an image is my 12.3mp D90.

would not be interpreted as an opinion. An opinion would be "I believe that megapixels..." or "In my opinion megapixels..." or "From what I have seen with my D100 and D90, Megapixels....". Not "Megapixels mean sweet fúck all with a dSLR". There are ways and means to get points across.

Given the cameras you mentioned, neither being full frame, how can you have an opinion on this unless you used a D800. That is why I believe you are an internet informed know-everything type individual. Truth is, if you haven't played about with a D800 you cannot have an opinion on it. And I mean that respectfully.

Personally, I haven't the foggiest about sensor technology, haven't a clue nor do I really care. I care about the result though and the results you get from a D800 blow my D700 out of the water. No contest. Both full frame, both prosumer, both well respected cameras. There is no contest. It's the results. Not what people tell you on message boards in my opinion. If I wanted to get clarification about the value of megapixels I would get on to the guys in DxO Mark. Given the D800 sensor is the all time best 35mm performing sensor, I reckon they gave it that status becuase there must be something good about it no.

Anyway Lefty, I am not for giving stick. Genuinely. What gets on my wick as I said earlier are opinions given by people that don't know what they are talking about. If you believe your DX format D100 takes better pics than your DX format D90 then great. But don't come around telling me that:

Leftyflip wrote: »

Megapixels mean sweet fúck all with a dSLR

is just an opinion.

By the way, of course megapixels are significant.

5uspect

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

Anyway Lefty, I am not for giving stick.

Are you just here to drive traffic to your website?

ImagenEstilo

That is a bit harsh 5uspect no? There are plenty of easier ways to increase web traffic, believe me.

But to answer your question, no. I am not based in Ireland, Irish traffic is irrelevant. It's a photo forum and I wanted to share my thought process behind choosing one camera over the other. I thought it might be of interest to some people. It did take me some time to write it and not something that was hashed together on the back of a fag box.

I've already been reprimanded for linking externally in this thread so best not go down that road again. I was not aware of it at the time.

Do yis treat all your new members this way as a matter of interest. I'm not looking for big warm hugs or anything but jaysus, tis a bit rough this.

maddog

Leftyflip wrote: »

Megapixels mean sweet fúck all with a dSLR - My 6mp Nikon D100, takes just as good an image is my 12.3mp D90. Anything over 14mp is pointless in my book, file sizes start to become ridiculous. Besides, you can make the RAW file upwards of 20mp in Camera RAW anyway - with great results.

For me it means larger prints Ger, A must for any landscape photographer imho.

5uspect wrote: »

Are you just here to drive traffic to your website?

I think he's bringing some good topics to the forum.

twowheelsonly

Thanks Imagen.. As someone that hopes to be in the same predicament towards the end of this year it's one of the better articles that I've read.

dirtyghettokid

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

I've already been reprimanded for linking externally in this thread so best not go down that road again. I was not aware of it at the time.

i wouldn't call it a reprimanding, in fairness. it was more bringing to your attention. anyway, as i said, it's good to have fresh ideas and share thoughts and opinions. that's what boards is for! don't let one person put you off!

i have just read your article now. did you get a chance to play around with the D4 at all? do you have any picture examples taken using both cameras?
36mp is insane. i struggle with disk space with 21mp!

ImagenEstilo

Hi dirtyghettokid. You are right, maybe reprimanded is a bit harsh. I take it back, it was a gentle bringing to my attention.

Maddog, I appreciate your comments. I hope to continue raising stuff that some people have an interest in.

Twowheelsonly, I'm glad you liked it. It took a lot of thought and the sole intention of it was to provide information to people that might be doing something similar. It took me months of research at the time and I thought if I condensed that research it might be beneficial.

Again 5uspect, you being a moderator of all people would know that if I was hear to spam I would have posted over 25 posts, 25 nice and easy posts mind you, reached the target specified by the board for a signature, stuck in my web link signature in my portfolio and hey presto 25 back links with little stress. That is the easy way.

Anyway, to polish off, the time that goes in to replying as has been done a few times in this thread is a waste. I am well aware individuals have there own opinions, and they are darn well entitled to em. But as my great grandmother used once say, if you have nothing positive to say, then it is best to say nothing at all. And if you have something negative to say, then structure your point, don't come back to people with some childish snithe comment like the one that kicked this all off.

Dirtyghettokid, I did have a play with a D4 out on a shoot in December, though didn't get the images back on the computer so couldn't do a proper comparison. It's a lovely camera, feels great in the hand, the focussing I found much more reliable in the 10 minutes that I was using it. Other than that I cannot report.

On the D800, the file size is a huge restriction. Not just in terms of size for storage but more in terms of working with them. I did write a prelim review of the D800 on the website stating that the filesize was manageable but after living with it this last 4 months or so, when it comes to post processing a wedding for example, it is massively time consuming unless you are using the likes of an iMAC with 16gig of RAM. I had to give up on a laptop (well speced I'll add) and wait until I got home to post process on a better machine. It just takes ages to work on them. I use Capture NX2 as I prefer its workflow layout and that yoke is slow at the best of times but it grinds to a halt when doing any major retouching on a D800 RAW file. Very frustrating. To anyone out there thinking of getting the D800, I would seriously think about your workflow setup first. You need at least 8gig in a machine and even then that will not be quick. You also need lots and lots of storage. This has it's own complications when it comes to back up plans, you may be forking out more on your plan. Also, in terms of uploading speeds you will be affected as you are looking at over double the file sizes.

I plan to stick another more in depth review on the site over and above the prelim review that is already there but suffice to say, although the pictures it takes are genuinely jaw dropping in terms of detail captured, it does come at a cost.

melekalikimaka

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

Hi dirtyghettokid. You are right, maybe reprimanded is a bit harsh. I take it back, it was a gentle bringing to my attention.

Maddog, I appreciate your comments. I hope to continue raising stuff that some people have an interest in.

Twowheelsonly, I'm glad you liked it. It took a lot of thought and the sole intention of it was to provide information to people that might be doing something similar. It took me months of research at the time and I thought if I condensed that research it might be beneficial.

Again 5uspect, you being a moderator of all people would know that if I was hear to spam I would have posted over 25 posts, 25 nice and easy posts mind you, reached the target specified by the board for a signature, stuck in my web link signature in my portfolio and hey presto 25 back links with little stress. That is the easy way.

Anyway, to polish off, the time that goes in to replying as has been done a few times in this thread is a waste. I am well aware individuals have there own opinions, and they are darn well entitled to em. But as my great grandmother used once say, if you have nothing positive to say, then it is best to say nothing at all. And if you have something negative to say, then structure your point, don't come back to people with some childish snithe comment like the one that kicked this all off.

Dirtyghettokid, I did have a play with a D4 out on a shoot in December, though didn't get the images back on the computer so couldn't do a proper comparison. It's a lovely camera, feels great in the hand, the focussing I found much more reliable in the 10 minutes that I was using it. Other than that I cannot report.

On the D800, the file size is a huge restriction. Not just in terms of size for storage but more in terms of working with them. I did write a prelim review of the D800 on the website stating that the filesize was manageable but after living with it this last 4 months or so, when it comes to post processing a wedding for example, it is massively time consuming unless you are using the likes of an iMAC with 16gig of RAM. I had to give up on a laptop (well speced I'll add) and wait until I got home to post process on a better machine. It just takes ages to work on them. I use Capture NX2 as I prefer its workflow layout and that yoke is slow at the best of times but it grinds to a halt when doing any major retouching on a D800 RAW file. Very frustrating. To anyone out there thinking of getting the D800, I would seriously think about your workflow setup first. You need at least 8gig in a machine and even then that will not be quick. You also need lots and lots of storage. This has it's own complications when it comes to back up plans, you may be forking out more on your plan. Also, in terms of uploading speeds you will be affected as you are looking at over double the file sizes.

I plan to stick another more in depth review on the site over and above the prelim review that is already there but suffice to say, although the pictures it takes are genuinely jaw dropping in terms of detail captured, it does come at a cost.

i'm tempted by the d800 majorly, friend got one near release time, great camera, fyi i had no issues workflow wise on 4gb mbp and i was banging through alot, 8 would have been faster but tbh 16gb ram is overkill even for this.

ImagenEstilo

Hmmm, that is strange. What do you use for post processing. PS, Lightroom, capture NX or something else.

I would only have Capture NX2 open and it is as slow. If I use Silver Efex Pro in PS that constantly runs out of memory when working on the 100% jpegs from the D800

I've done everything to optimise my laptop but it's still grinding to a halt.

5uspect

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

Again 5uspect, you being a moderator of all people would know that if I was hear to spam I would have posted over 25 posts, 25 nice and easy posts mind you, reached the target specified by the board for a signature, stuck in my web link signature in my portfolio and hey presto 25 back links with little stress. That is the easy way.

Me being a mod of another boards.ie forum has nothing to do with it. As a veteran boards user I've seem many threads by members with very low post counts attempting to pimp external websites. I accept that in this particular case it was a genuine attempt at discussion and I apologize if I came across as harsh.

Ballyman

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

On the D800, the file size is a huge restriction. Not just in terms of size for storage but more in terms of working with them. I did write a prelim review of the D800 on the website stating that the filesize was manageable but after living with it this last 4 months or so, when it comes to post processing a wedding for example, it is massively time consuming unless you are using the likes of an iMAC with 16gig of RAM. I had to give up on a laptop (well speced I'll add) and wait until I got home to post process on a better machine. It just takes ages to work on them. I use Capture NX2 as I prefer its workflow layout and that yoke is slow at the best of times but it grinds to a halt when doing any major retouching on a D800 RAW file. Very frustrating. To anyone out there thinking of getting the D800, I would seriously think about your workflow setup first. You need at least 8gig in a machine and even then that will not be quick. You also need lots and lots of storage. This has it's own complications when it comes to back up plans, you may be forking out more on your plan. Also, in terms of uploading speeds you will be affected as you are looking at over double the file sizes.

Can you not set the file size you want in the camera like in the 5Dmkiii so if you don't want to use 36MP you can use a reduced setting? I have mine set to mRAW which is 10MP which is plenty for the work I do.

What are you doing that you need 36MP for?

ImagenEstilo

Aye, I can downsize alright and I would probably be better off, but sometimes the photos I take are wanted in extra large print so I run the risk of not being able, or at least not being able to go the size I want comfortably.

ImagenEstilo

5uspect wrote: »

Me being a mod of another boards.ie forum has nothing to do with it. As a veteran boards user I've seem many threads by members with very low post counts attempting to pimp external websites. I accept that in this particular case it was a genuine attempt at discussion and I apologize if I came across as harsh.

No apology required 5suspect. But thanks.

Great name for a moderator by the way, suspect by name, suspect by nature .

melekalikimaka

ImagenEstilo wrote: »

Hmmm, that is strange. What do you use for post processing. PS, Lightroom, capture NX or something else.

I would only have Capture NX2 open and it is as slow. If I use Silver Efex Pro in PS that constantly runs out of memory when working on the 100% jpegs from the D800

I've done everything to optimise my laptop but it's still grinding to a halt.

dont use capture nx, would use photoshop or lightroom depending on the detail required in pp. I do use a mac so might add some weight to it.


and i wouldnt be dealing with jpeg, it's be raw