Cost of laying kerbs??

sl

Hi

We have just completed laying kerbs on our property. 170 kerbs (2 foot long each) were required for the job.
A driver and digger were employed to help with the job to prepare for and help with the laying of the kerbs. We agreed a price with the digger driver up front for that time. 3 builders were also employed for the job. One of those was responsible for mixing and drawing concrete to the other two workers.

I contacted people about quotations for laying kerbs before the job. Basically I was told that in BOOM times the cost of laying each kerb was generally the same price as the kerb itself. In my case, each kerb costs 4euro (so 4 euro for laying each kerb would have been the BOOM time rate). At that rate of going, 170 * 4 = €680 would be the cost of the kerb layers for laying the kerbs (excluding cost of digger and digger-driver).

As we are now in BUST times I was informed that rates can be as low as 3/5 of that cost.

My problem is this - the kerb have been laid and now the kerb layer is claiming a cost (based on the amount of time he and his 2 side-kicks spent on the job) amounting to almost 10eur per kerb for laying to lay those €4 kerbs!!! We don't dispute the quality of the finish but do dispute the time being billed for the work.

The head builder is claiming that most of the time was spent in preparatory work (digging, using laser to get levels, etc.) - but that was what the digger was there (and paid) to assist with!. The digger driver stuck with his original quotation for the job.

The kerb area in question includes a section of ground consisting of 2 parallel "s"-bends (~40 kerbs on each side of an entrace = 80 kerbs) and there is also a slope in a section of the work. Therefore, the job would not be as straightforward as a laying kerbs on level ground without curves/bends.

I have the following questions:
1. Can anyone tell me what the going rate is for laying kerbs in Kerry (out in the countryside)? Is it calculated on a kerb-by-kerb rate or daily rate?
2. Does the rate include getting the levels right? (kerb layers have lasers to assist with this)? If not, how much extra would this cost (ballpark figure if possible)?
3. Does the rate in 1 including pointing the kerbs? If not, how much extra would this cost (ballpark figure if possible)?
4. Does the rate in 1 include any extra preparatory work that may be required (e.g., digging, filling gravel, etc.)? Bear in mind that we have a digger driver available to assist with this.

We agreed a fixed daily rate for undertaking the job with the kerb layers up front and we really feel that they have prolonged the task for their own personal gain. We were under the impression that the kerbs would be laid in 7.5 - 10.5 man days maximum (i.e., 3 men for somewhere in the region of 2.5 days - 3.5 days each). The builder is not seeking costs for 15.5 days in total for himself and his 2 buddies.

We really feel aggrieved by this but would like to get an objective opinion - perhaps I am being unrealistic?

Thank you in advance.

the keen edge

TL;DR.
How much are they charging(or what is the cost working out at), roughly, per man per day for labour only.

sl

the keen edge wrote: »

TL;DR.
How much are they charging(or what is the cost working out at), roughly, per man per day for labour only.

I made a mistake in the original post - they are seeking costs for 14.5 days for 3 men (one mixing cement - the others laying) for the job of laying kerbs. For each of the men per day they are seeking 100eur.
Were were retrospectively informed that the site "wasn't prepared" for Leanmix (is that what it is called?) so that is why they had a third man mixing cement. Without offending anyone, to me it seems excessive that a person mixing cement gets the same rate as someone who is doing the more creative task of laying the blocks. Surely, that person could have been deployed to actually lay kerbs also for some part of each day he was there??

Ultimately, it took the 3 men 14.5 days from start to finish to lay the kerbs (despite the fact that a digger driver was available for 4 man days to help with any major digging or laborious work). This just doesn't seem to make sense to me!

woodoo

What are they looking for in total?

muffler

sl wrote: »

This just doesn't seem to make sense to me!

Doesn't make sense to me as to why you would engage a builder on a daily rate as opposed to getting an all in price for the job. Am I right in saying that you got these people without even knowing what their rate was?

sl

muffler wrote: »

Doesn't make sense to me as to why you would engage a builder on a daily rate as opposed to getting an all in price for the job. Am I right in saying that you got these people without even knowing what their rate was?

We were informed by the digger driver (who is a personal friend of ours and has worked many times with the kerb-layers in the past) up front that it would take approx 2.5 days for the kerb layers to do their job (i.e., 2.5 * 3 = 7.5 man days = 750euro). As I stated previously, the rate per person for the 2 kerb layers and the cement-mixing worker was 100eur per person per day.

Based on this estimation we proceeded with employing those 3 workers. Very naievely/stupidly we didn't agree a fixed price directly ourselves with the 3 kerb-layers up front - instead we went on the estimate of the digger driver. As a worst-case scenario we anticipated a 1.5 day overrun on the original estimate of 750euro (i.e., 3 people * 1.5 extra days = 4.5 extra man days = 450euro extra, giving a grand total of 1200euro i.e., in other words, 12 man days in total for laying and pointing the 170 kerbs - which seems more than sufficient to say the least, as this would in affect lead to an average of approx 15 kerbs per person per day or, in other words, an average of less than 2 kerbs per hour per man!!!).

To me, how the effort escalated into 14.5 man days defies logic, particularly as a digger and driver were avaiable for the duration of the job. As I stated previously, the kerb layers are claiming that they had to get the levels right and do some digging themselves, despite the fact that a digger was there!!
In effect, the 3 kerb layers are seeking 14.5 man days * 100 per person per day = total cost of 1450euro, which is almost double the original projection of 750euro.

We have twice offered a compromise of 1200euro but the chief kerb layer is not budging from 1450eur, claiming that he has already paid his co-workers and is out of pocket.

We want to resolve this dispute ASAP but feel that 1450 is a totally excessive amount, and particularly so as it is cash-in-hand! I would be grateful in getting advice on how to overcome this standstill. Basically, should we stick with our guns?

muffler

sl wrote: »

as it is cash-in-hand

Sorry but we don't condone tax avoidance on this forum and therefore the topic will not be discussed further.

Thread closed.