Missing person on Census

paddysdream

Maybe this has been asked before but anyways.
Having trouble finding someone who I know should be on both the 1901 and 1911 Irish Census.
Having tried searching using all known details and also spending an hour or so reading through all results from a very vague search I cannot get a result.

I know this persons age (born 1863 Carlow) where and when married(Jul-Aug-Sep 1904 in Killarney registration district) wifes maiden name and that they had one daughter ;born roughly 1905 to 1908; unsure of christian name as she was known by a pet name as a youngster and by her name in religion for the rest of her life(spent mainly overseas).
Also his profession(R I C Constable; although unsure of when he joined or left the force).

I can find all the rest of his family (mother,siblings etc) but not him.To be honest I am wondering if I am missing something obivious as have never had this trouble before ie have found every single one of the more that 150 people in my family tree who would have been counted under either Irish Census.
Anyways any ideas etc or can it be that some people, returns etc just aint there?

P. Breathnach

Did you seek out his RIC service record?

shanew

RIC men would often be in a barracks close to their family, but listed by just their initials.

Have you found his wife and daughter ?


S.

paddysdream

Cheers thanks for the quick reply's.
Didnt look up service record ;where can I do that? Preferebaly on line as its not someone that I am stuck on ie know as much about him as I want ;he returned home after retirement and died in 1942 at home in Carlow on the farm where he was born(elderly neighbour's remember him well) and his daughter died as recently as 2002.

Its just that little annoyance of knowing he should be there and unable to see it.

Tried searching by initials only(thanks for that) and the only possibility I can see is "house 2 Barrack Street Castleisland Kerry " in 1901.
Looks likely as its all single men except one, from 7 or so different counties.So maybe it was an R I C barracks but none of the occupants give profession as policeman.
Must investigate further.
Thanks again.

Jellybaby1

Weren't the RIC, DMP, etc., listed on form H? Check if its a form H.

shanew

The RIC and DMP records are not online anywhere as far as I know. Films of RIC records re available at various locations - e.g. FamilySearch centres, Pearse St library etc

You can also order a copy of the RIC records from the PSNI musuem website.

The service records include the various posting and dates, promotions punishments etc, county of birth, denomination, the name of the person that recommended them and the county of the wife's birth.

DMP records include civil parish of birth as well as county.

update : the profession given on the census form is usually their former profession


Shane

shanew

paddysdream wrote: »

Cheers thanks for the quick reply's.
.....
Tried searching by initials only(thanks for that) and the only possibility I can see is "house 2 Barrack Street Castleisland Kerry " in 1901.
Looks likely as its all single men except one, from 7 or so different counties.So maybe it was an R I C barracks but none of the occupants give profession as policeman.

that's an RIC barracks - check the top of the form

(Barrack Lane)


S.

paddysdream

Ok back again,
Thanks for all the help.Am fairly sure that the person identified as J B that was living in Castleisland is the correct person but now another little bit of help needed !
I cannot find him ,his wife or child in 1911;tried searching by variations of the name;initials;using and not using age,county of birth,profession,years married ,children still alive etc etc and no luck so far.
As far as I am aware he never left Ireland but am not 100% sure of this
Details are;
John Brennan RIC born Carlow 1863 married Elizabeth Roche Jul-Aug-Sep 1904 in Killarney reg. district; one daughter born 1904 -1910 approx(unsure of christian name).Presume still stationed in Kerry at this time (although looking at his age maybe retired )
First time I am this stuck but fully expect (hope!) someone to come back and show me something obivious that I overlooked.
Thanks .

pinkypinky

I seem to remember that some parts (islands?) of Kerry are omitted from the census online - a couple of books that had never been microfilmed, which did not get scanned obviously. There's a few other places where this happened (Cappoquin in Waterford on the 1901). The original returns will exist. I'm not sure if these have now been placed online - it's very difficult to get this information out of the NA.

shanew

possible baptism for their daughter ?

Baptism of Elizabeth Mary Brennan - 25 May 1905
Parents : John Brennan & Elizabeth Roche
Address : Annamore
RC Parish of Killeentierna, Co. Kerry

details might help locate Elizabeth snr & jnr on the 1911 returns

p.s. the townland of Annamore is in Killarney PLU/Registration district, so likely quite close..


Shane

shanew

an extra middle name appears on Elizabeth jnr's birth on the BMD index :

Name: Elizabeth Mary Josephine Brennan
Registration district: Killarney
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1905
Volume: 5 / Page: 263

Might be worth ordering the marriage cert for John & Elizabeth to see what the extra details are - e.g. which church, father's names, residences of the bride & groom etc

Even though Annamore is in Killarney registration district, it's about 25km north of the town, and close to Castleisland. Wonder if Annamore might be where Elizabeth is from, or maybe John was stationed in Castleisland ?

There is a Roche family at Annamore on the 1901 returns, but no sign of an Elizabeth of the right age, although the wife's name is Elizabeth... so could be a daughter named after her

The town of Castleisland appears to be just inside Tralee registration district.


Shane

shanew

there's an Eliza Brennan of the right age in Castleisland in 1911 - but not with her mother. She's a niece of John and Annie McSweeney at Main Street Castleisland.

see : McSweeny/Brennan/Sullivan household

If that is Elizabeth Mary Brennan, then I wonder where Elizabeth snr is, or what's happened to her ?



Shane

paddysdream

Cheers thanks again
Must be a post christmas haze or something but I seem to be having no luck with that end of my (by now very extended) family tree.
Just after looking at the links and it looks promising.
As regards the mother hmm now that I think about it she may have died before 1911 as I have never heard her mentioned by anyone local and the man in question returned back home and died in Carlow in 1942 .

tyview

There is a burial record for a maggie brennan on May 24th 1905 policemans wife in annemore which could be 'elizabeth'

http://docstore.kerrycoco.ie/burialrecords/Kilsarcon_1_1905-1920_0003.pdf

shanew

I dont see a Maggie or Margaret death to match that burial - but there is this death, which fits even better (same middle name as Elizabath jnr.) :

name: Elizabeth Josephine Brennan
registration district: Killarney
Event type: Death
Quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1905
age : 23 (est. year of birth 1882)
volume : 5 / page : 212

shanew

possible baptism for Elizabeth

residence Annamore, parents Maurice Roche & Elizabeth Counihan.


fit's with that Roche family I mentioned earlier from the 1901 census

p.s. date of death for that 'Maggie' is just two days after date of birth for Elizabeth jnr.

paddysdream

Thanks .
Feels like I (we!) are making progress.
At this stage prob. have as much information as is possible to get without looking at the original records and I feel as this is a fairly distant relative I have enough.
Really was trying to tie up a few loose ends.If I had to do as much looking for any amount of people in my tree then maybe I would have left it so by now!!
Possibly am spoiled as having 850 or so people on ancestry tree and needed to search out records for less than 50 (most info is from headstones,family lore and a huge collection of memory cards and original newspaper clippings of death notices(some really strange people related to me!!)The memorial cards are a gift(even have one of a person who was born 1796 and died in the late 1880s;pity it aint got a photo )
Thanks again.

L1011

shanew wrote: »

The RIC and DMP records are not online anywhere as far as I know. Films of RIC records re available at various locations - e.g. FamilySearch centres, Pearse St library etc

Ancestry.co.uk have partial RIC records transcribed from a book on the force - had my great-great-grandfather's anwyay. Was one of the record sets available on the free trial.

The full record obtained from the RUC History Society was much better, though.