How to Fit Properly Insulated Eaves Access Hatch Door

gaelicyoda

Hi All

We've just got our attic slabbed and plastered using 50mm (total width) insulated slabs, and now I want to find the best way to add the hatch doors for eaves access that's not going to compromise the effectiveness of the insulation.

This is what it looks like:



... a bit closer up:



... and the full cross section of the opening:



There are 4 hatches like this: 2 hatches in each room (one front and back) x 2 rooms.


I'd really like to get people's thoughts or advice on the approach I'm thinking of taking - and anyone who's had to do this themselves, please let me know what worked best for you.

So, the plan:

1. Remove the central stud timber.
2. Create a frame for the hatch by adding 150mm x 25 mm (6" x 1" - do these even exist?) on the left, right and top of the opening.
   The bottom side goes all the way to the floor, so I'll leave that alone.
3. Basically use another piece of insulated plasterboard, with extra insulation on the back, to fill the void.
   Something like this (which shows the frame/border at the top)... not drawn to scale by the way:
   
   
4. I have a sheet of oak veneer left over from when we put a back on the stairs, so I could probably use that to put a facade on top of the plasterboard to make it look nice.... and add architrave around the opening as well.
5. For the amount of times these are likely to be opened annually, I'm quite happy just to skip the messing around with hinges and handles and the like and just fix in place with screws.

But I do have a few things I'm not quite sure about (that I can think of anyway - probably a load of things I haven't even realised yet!)

(1) How best to bond the two pieces of insulations together to form a solid piece.

(2) Do I need to insulate the rear side of the timber?

(3) The veneer sheet will sit proud of the wall if I put it on top of the plasterboard. Is there a nice way to "blend it in" to the architrave surround? Beading, etc? Or might it not look that bad? (he asked hopefully )

(4) Is there anything in any way decorative that can be done with the fixing screws? A surrounding ring or anything like that... just to jazz it up if possible.

(5) Anything I can do now structurally to reduce the risk of breaking the insulation if/whenever I do go to reopen a hatch?

Cheers,
GY

gaelicyoda

... and it doesn't really affect the job at hand, but I probably should have mentioned as well that the rest of the walls have 100mm rafterlock behind the insulated plasterboard, just in case anyone thought it was only the plasterboard that was insulating up there.

chris445

This is what I would personally do in this situation. Cut out the sole plate of the studwork and remove the centre stud. Make up a frame an fit it flush with the wall and fit an architrave surround. I would also use hinges to fit the doors/panels. The dont have to be butt hinges. There are planty of hinges out there that would be much easier to use like piano hinge for example. Then a simple enough catch to keep the door closed. As far as insulation goes you could cut a piece of insulated slab and glue it to the back of the door using some gun-o-prene.

gaelicyoda

Thanks for the feedback Chris - I found it pretty hard to find anything about this stuff online, and I was afraid there that I might not get any replies here either!

chris445 wrote: »

Cut out the sole plate of the studwork and remove the centre stud. Make up a frame an fit it flush with the wall and fit an architrave surround.

That's a very interesting idea... for some reason I hadn't actually considered cutting out the sole plate!

But now that I think about it, I don't really see why not. That timber would just be sitting on top of the joists (but sitting perpendicular to them), and because the roof load is acting vertically straight down - first through the purlin, and then through the vertical studs - removing it really wouldn't be weakening the structure any more than it would be otherwise anyway. It's taking out the centre stud that's actually what would be causing any increased weaknesses. And I suppose for something this size, it's probably not an issue? (The purlin above should be taking the brunt, with the remaining studs then supporting it from underneath - the load should be spread out across all the remaining studs, so probably not.)

I would still need to have some kind of lat along the bottom to act as a back stop for the door, but it would be significantly smaller than what's there now. Good call!

chris445 wrote: »

I would also use hinges to fit the doors/panels. The dont have to be butt hinges. There are planty of hinges out there that would be much easier to use like piano hinge for example. Then a simple enough catch to keep the door closed.

This part I'm still not convinced about though... bear in mind that the door is going to be 150mm thick - wouldn't trying to swing out a recessed door this thick catch on the edges of the insulation? That's why I was opting for the straight-in/straight-out approach.
Not too sure on the catch either - I'd always opt for function over form when it comes to insulation-related stuff... screws would keep it in place best IMHO. I'd still probably just opt to use something to hide the tops of the screws like this:

... unless you had a specific kind of catch in mind?

chris445 wrote: »

As far as insulation goes you could cut a piece of insulated slab and glue it to the back of the door using some gun-o-prene.

Great! Not actually used this before, so it looks exactly like what I'm looking for! Thanks Chris!

gaelicyoda

chris445 wrote: »

Cut out the sole plate of the studwork and remove the centre stud. Make up a frame an fit it flush with the wall and fit an architrave surround.

So it would end up looking like something a bit more symmetrical, like this:

chris445 wrote: »

As far as insulation goes you could cut a piece of insulated slab and glue it to the back of the door using some gun-o-prene.

I wonder could this also be used to bond a thin sheet of oak veneer to front (of the plasterboard)?

chris445

Once you don't mind having to screw on and off the panel for access then the screws and cupheads would do the job nicely. I wouldn't go over the top with the amount of screws though. Try to use as little as possible would be my opinion but also try to keep them symmetrical.

When it comes to using gun-o-prene for veneer i don't think it would be suitable as you would see the lines/bumps from where the glue was applied. I tend to use evo-stik 528 contact adhesive for this job but I'm not sure if it would be effective on the paper of the slad. I have used it on MDF and plywood in the past and it works a treat. You spread the glue(using a notched spreader provided) on both surfaces. Leave to dry for a while until it's slightly tacky to touch. Then bond the 2 pieces together and using a cloth apply pressure pushing from the centre out to the edges to remove any air bubbles. Looks great when it's finished.

gaelicyoda

chris445 wrote: »

Once you don't mind having to screw on and off the panel for access then the screws and cupheads would do the job nicely. I wouldn't go over the top with the amount of screws though. Try to use as little as possible would be my opinion but also try to keep them symmetrical.

Yup, good advice - I don't think I'll need to go in there too often, so the screws should be fine I reckon.

chris445 wrote: »

When it comes to using gun-o-prene for veneer i don't think it would be suitable as you would see the lines/bumps from where the glue was applied. I tend to use evo-stik 528 contact adhesive for this job but I'm not sure if it would be effective on the paper of the slad. I have used it on MDF and plywood in the past and it works a treat. You spread the glue(using a notched spreader provided) on both surfaces. Leave to dry for a while until it's slightly tacky to touch. Then bond the 2 pieces together and using a cloth apply pressure pushing from the centre out to the edges to remove any air bubbles. Looks great when it's finished.

Sorry, I should probably have been more specific in my description of the 'oak veneer' I was talking about - what I'm really talking about is oak veneered plywood, kinda like this:


as opposed to something like a sheet of contact. I'd hope that any glue applied on one side would not cause bumps on the other... but you're point about the application to the paper of a slab still stands... might not be the best surface for bonding to.

whizbang

I dont think you can use gunoprene on insulation, certainly not styrofoam, dont know about new stuff.

use cheap acrylic filler as glue for the insulation.

gaelicyoda

whizbang wrote: »

I dont think you can use gunoprene on insulation, certainly not styrofoam, dont know about new stuff.

use cheap acrylic filler as glue for the insulation.

Funnily enough, on this point I called into my builder providers yesterday and asked him what he thought I should use, and he recommended FixAll:

Here's their website (no personal affiliation of any kind to these guys):

http://www.fixall.eu/turbo/en/info.html

bigfluffycloud

I'm about to do the same job here at mo, just waiting for insulation installers to finish before tackling the hatches in each room. Want to have access if required but cannot see it being more than once a year if even. Very interested to see what you come up with in the end

Ush1

I was thinking of this issue and all the breaches you would have to make for cables so I'm just going to insulate from the ridge all the way to the eaves instead.

gaelicyoda

bigfluffycloud wrote: »

I'm about to do the same job here at mo, just waiting for insulation installers to finish before tackling the hatches in each room. Want to have access if required but cannot see it being more than once a year if even. Very interested to see what you come up with in the end

I'll keep you posted :-)

I was quite surprised that there weren't resources for this all over the web, but they seem pretty few and far between :-(

gaelicyoda

Ush1 wrote: »

I was thinking of this issue and all the breaches you would have to make for cables so I'm just going to insulate from the ridge all the way to the eaves instead.

Yeah I had thought about that too, but even insulating the eaves 'floor' with rockwool (actually, you can see it there in the images above) was a big pain in the ass, so trying to do the 'ceiling' would be a right f*%!ker I'd say, so rather you than me! ;-)

I have basically only two sets of cables to manage:
(1) TV distribution point is in the attic and
(2) Some Cat6 cables for ethernet ports I added to a couple of the upstairs rooms

What I was going to do for these is just build a small platform in there and leave them in the eaves altogether... or alternatively build a small insulated cabinet backing right up against the wall to house them if I do decide to break them through. Bit more work, but might be a nicer job in the end.

One hurdle at a time for me now though :-)

coxy123

gaelicyoda wrote: »

Yeah I had thought about that too, but even insulating the eaves 'floor' with rockwool (actually, you can see it there in the images above) was a big pain in the ass, so trying to do the 'ceiling' would be a right f*%!ker I'd say, so rather you than me! ;-)

I have basically only two sets of cables to manage:
(1) TV distribution point is in the attic and
(2) Some Cat6 cables for ethernet ports I added to a couple of the upstairs rooms

What I was going to do for these is just build a small platform in there and leave them in the eaves altogether... or alternatively build a small insulated cabinet backing right up against the wall to house them if I do decide to break them through. Bit more work, but might be a nicer job in the end.

One hurdle at a time for me now though :-)

Hi gaelicyoda,

Resurrecting an old thread but was just wondering how hatch door's turned out - have a similar requirement myself at present-any pics. etc./thoughts/advice for me.

Thx.

Cathal.