Licence for tri-axle trailer?

redzerologhlen

I have heard from a few different people that an ordinary eb trailer licence wont cover you for pulling a tri-axle trailer behind a jeep and that an artic licence is required. I have googled it but I am none the wiser so if someone could shed some light on it for me that would be mighty.

dougie-lampkin

You can pull a trailer with 16 axles on your EB licence once it has a DGVW less than 3.5 t. Any trailer with a DGVW over 3.5 t should not be pulled behind a jeep, unless you have a Bowler Wildcat or something.

A trailer with DGVW over 3.5 t will have a licence, much like an artic trailer, so I assume yours is < 3.5 t.

keithclancy

Maybe ring the Gardai and ask.

If they don't know then you're fine.

redzerologhlen

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

You can pull a trailer with 16 axles on your EB licence once it has a DGVW less than 3.5 t. Any trailer with a DGVW over 3.5 t should not be pulled behind a jeep, unless you have a Bowler Wildcat or something.

A trailer with DGVW over 3.5 t will have a licence, much like an artic trailer, so I assume yours is < 3.5 t.

Ya, its a 14ft ifor willams cattle trailer. I was thinking as much but you know the way stories go.

TrailerBob

As Dougie says, no axle limit on a trailer with an EB licence. Only restriction is weight. You can do your EB test with a tri-axle cattle box if you like. Wherever you heard that, its a myth.. almost as mythological as the "you need a 4x4 to pull a 2 axle trailer" one. No legislation for this at all

101sean

Yep, number of axles is totally irrelevant, most you can tow with overrun brakes is 3.5t if the tow vehicle is rated for it. Defenders are rated to 4t with powered trailer brakes but I've never seen one with them plus then you'd need an artic licence here.

There was a 5 axle Ifor Williams on DD a while back that had been used for shifting containers in a yard, max weight on road would still be 3.5t with actual capacity reduced by the weight of the extra axles.

Del2005

101sean wrote: »

Yep, number of axles is totally irrelevant, most you can tow with overrun brakes is 3.5t if the tow vehicle is rated for it. Defenders are rated to 4t with powered trailer brakes but I've never seen one with them plus then you'd need an artic licence here.

I question that what the RSA before and there is no weight restrictions, apart from the towing vehicle, with the current EB licence. The new licences from the 19th are restricted.

Presently, a driver with a car and trailer licence, category BE can draw a trailer of unlimited
size according to licensing rules, this is of course limited by the manufacturer specification
for any particular car and trailer. From the 19 January 2013, every new BE licence or learner
permit holder cannot draw a trailer whose weight is greater than 3,500kg dvgw. This new
rule does not apply to people who have their full licence or learner permit issued before the
19
th
January 2013.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Maybe ring the Gardai and ask.

If they don't know then you're fine.

I could bet they have no clue.

philgunn

is the train weight , the combined weight of the towing vehicle and Trailer ?

I have a 3.5 Ton Ducato van and pull a 3 ton twin axle Beaver tail trailer , I have been told i need a Tacograph fitted to tow ? anyone any info

thanks

TrailerBob

Nope, not heard of this. Your van has the same gvw as a landcruiser, and once within vehicle limits, you can tow a trailer without a tacho. Otherwise every fella with a jeep or van would need one. Train weight is the total of both van and trailer, and I'd imagine for yours it's about 5.5 - 6 ton.

I had a 3.5 ton iveco box truck on the road with a 12ft box trailer for a year.. No tacho required

dhog4n

The train weight is the combined eeight of the towing vehicle and the trailer (using the GVW of each).

Providing your Ducato is allowed by the manufacturer to tow the weight of your trailer, you need only an EB licence.

EC/EC1 is required for a trailer over 3.5t and tachograph rules, etc apply as with any other vehicle over 3.5t (even if the towing vehicle is otherwise a B-licence vehicle).

Towing over 3.5t is still subject to the manufacturers limits though so look at your VIN plate for towing weight before doing anything else.

Del2005

TrailerBob wrote: »

Nope, not heard of this. Your van has the same gvw as a landcruiser, and once within vehicle limits, you can tow a trailer without a tacho. Otherwise every fella with a jeep or van would need one. Train weight is the total of both van and trailer, and I'd imagine for yours it's about 5.5 - 6 ton.

I had a 3.5 ton iveco box truck on the road with a 12ft box trailer for a year.. No tacho required

Both need a tacho

From

VEHICLE  TESTING SCHEME 
TACHOGRAPH  DECLARATION FORM 
 
NOTE:      THIS FORM IS ONLY A DECLARATION FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE VEHICLE TESTING SCHEME AND IT 
NEITHER  CONSTITUTES  NOR  IS  IT  EVIDENCE  OF  AN  EXEMPTION  FROM  THE  TACHOGRAPH 
REGULATIONS.   
 
THE  ACCEPTANCE  OF  THE  FORM  BY  THE  VEHICLE  TESTER  DOES  NOT  CONSTITUTE  OFFICIAL 
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT  THAT  THERE  IS  AN  EXEMPTION  NOR  DOES  IT  RENDER  A  VEHICLE  OWNER 
IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION FOR ANY INFRINGMENT OF THE TACHOGRAPH REGULATIONS. 
 
A DRIVER AND OWNER COMMITS AN OFFENCE IF A TACHOGRAPH IS NOT USED IN RESPECT OF VEHICLE 
WHICH COMES WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THE TACHOGRAPH LEGISLATION. 
  
I declare that vehicle registration number _________________________ is not required to have a tachograph fitted for 
the reason indicated below.  (Please tick the appropriate box AND sign the form at the bottom of page 2)

Gross vehicle weight does not exceed 3.5 tonnes design gross vehicle weight (DGVW).

Vehicle used for carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of 
his/her work provided the vehicle is only used within a 50 kilometre radius from the base of the 
undertaking and that driving the vehicle does not constitute the driver’s main activity. 

The RSA count the trailer in the DGVW

Plated Weights

In the absence of an equivalent manufacturer’s plate the following vehicle types must be fitted with a weights and dimensions plate at an NSAI approved plating centre:

Goods vehicles (including their trailers and semi-trailers) with a design gross vehicle weight exceeding 3,500kg and,

The [url=file:///C:/Users/Derek/Downloads/rules-on-drivers-hours-and-tachographs-goods-vehicles-in-gb-and-europe.pdf]DVLA has a clearer description of the exemption on page 15 of this pdf[/url], but this is the UK exemption not ours

The only true answer is in our Statute book but I can never find anything in it

LifeSaabItch

philgunn wrote: »

is the train weight , the combined weight of the towing vehicle and Trailer ?

I have a 3.5 Ton Ducato van and pull a 3 ton twin axle Beaver tail trailer , I have been told i need a Tacograph fitted to tow ? anyone any info

thanks

Your actually possibly over weight, unless your train weight is like 6.5T.

Train weight is the total your van/trailer can weigh.

Get your train weight limit (Likely 5.5T) and subtract the Gross van weight which is 3.5T.

Legally only allows you to tow 2T.

mullingar

Bottom line of towing < few tonnes.

If the DGVW car + DGVW trailer <3500kg you need a B.
If the DGVW car + DGVW trailer >3500kg you need a BE.

DGVW is the Design GROSS vehicle weight - ie trailer+load weight when fully laden (also known as the MAM - Maximum authorised Mass)

The DGVW on a car is on the weight plate under the bonnet, usually 4 numbers under the chassis plate ID.
1. is the maximum train weight (of car + trailer)
2. DGVW car
3. Max weight front axle
4. Max weight rear axle

SO, If your cars DGVW is 1800kg, your<3500kg B licence can only permit you to pull a trailer with a DGVW of maximum 1700kg (if your car will permit such weight too!). If you try to tow a trailer with a DGVW greater than this EVEN EMPTY you are uninsured.

TrailerBob

Del2005 wrote: »

Both need a tacho /QUOTE]

That's true in the UK, but not here. There is no requirement for any 4x4 or 3.5ton max van with a trailer within its towing capacity to have a tacho here.

If you had a 6.5 ton iveco van and trailer, then you need a tacho. And an EC license.

In the UK it is required for business purposes.

guil

EC1 would suffice for that iveco.

TrailerBob

Indeed, the '1' didn't come out... Tiny phone keypad!!

philgunn

This is what i have

a Fiat Ducato maxi unladen weight 2300kg Rated at 3500kg laden and the VIN Plate states i can tow a up to a weight of 6500KG (van and trailer )
I HAVE A beaver trailer that is unladen weight of 700kg and a max weight of 3000kg

so van max weight is 3500 and Trailer max is 3000kg give a total of 6500kg Licence is not a problem have both b and c + trailer
but this combination should not need a taco fitted ?

R.O.R

TrailerBob wrote: »

Del2005 wrote: »

Both need a tacho /QUOTE]

That's true in the UK, but not here. There is no requirement for any 4x4 or 3.5ton max van with a trailer within its towing capacity to have a tacho here.

If you had a 6.5 ton iveco van and trailer, then you need a tacho. And an EC license.

In the UK it is required for business purposes.

I was under the impression that anything with a train weight over 3.5T, technically needed a Tacho, from years back when a dealer informed me of this (3.5T Transit fitted with a Tow Bar, so had a Tacho fitted).

Looks like that was only brought in to EU Law recently - info I can find (nothing Irish) seems to suggest that it is now EU Law, so at least any commercial vehicles with a Gross Train Weight of over 3.5Ton's, should be fitted with a Tachograph. Not so clear on passenger vehicles....


http://www.eurotachographsolutions.ie/#!news/csas explains some of it. Most info I can find is from the UK, but references an EU directive.


Recovery vehicles are different, depending on how they are classified - I believe there are different classifications for Recovery Trucks - I know the guy we use for collection/deliveries around the city is exempt from having a Tacho fitted, but I'm not sure exactly why.....

Del2005

TrailerBob wrote: »

Del2005 wrote: »

Both need a tacho /QUOTE]

That's true in the UK, but not here. There is no requirement for any 4x4 or 3.5ton max van with a trailer within its towing capacity to have a tacho here.

If you had a 6.5 ton iveco van and trailer, then you need a tacho. And an EC license.

In the UK it is required for business purposes.

Where is the legislation? As what I've posted doesn't make it clear either way but seems to indicate that you require a tacho.

TrailerBob

I agree Del2005, it's not especially clear. In R.O.R's link, it specifically states for commercial use, again its a UK example. Its not written in legislation in Ireland, but when i brought the Iveco I had to the DOE centre, they asked the GVW. When It was shown to be 3500Kg, they said, 'Thats fine - No tachograph' and they knew there was a hitch on it. I know that's not legislation, but its what the testers are checking (as of Jan 2014)

It's something that will have to be clarified, as you could have a situation where a commercial jeep needs a tacho, but a private doesn't. Or do you only use the tacho when towing? Isn't it illegal to drive a vehicle with the tacho disabled? Then there's CPC?????

Personally i would be amazed if you were asked for one in this country the way things stand