Dealing with yobs

Fiskar

Youths age 12 to 16 entering (range between 3 to 12 in number) enter our estate over a 7 to 8 foot wall.
Lately this has escalated in bikes being stolen from the fronts of houses in the Cul de Sac and garages and the like being cased and broken into.
Guards have involved but no one yet has been caugth in the act.

Plans by us as residents include the following as deterrents.

1) Painting the wall with a substance on top that will be dirty and destroy their clothes so hopefully they will move off elsewhere like to good two legged rats they are.

2) Photographing them on entry to the estate and making it known to them that these photographs are being taken for the purposes of security and are being forwarded to the Gardai given the amount of incidents in the estate.

Can we do 1 and 2 or if not what helpful suggestions do people have?

ABajaninCork

Anti climb paint's probably a good idea. Not sure about taking photos without consent though.

Kristopherus

If they're on a public road/place they can be photographed, but you should go on the advice of the Gardai re underage yobs.

Zambia

Everyday all of us are recorded without consent

ldxo15wus6fpgm

I've got a question.
I used to live in the UK where you'd always see the odd wall with shards of glass glued to the top to dissuade people from attempting to climb over.

I'm fairly certain you'd be liable and subject to criminal penalties in Ireland if someone hurt themselves by attempting to climb over such a wall.

However, I find it hard to believe anyone would be stupid enough to try it in the first place if the glass was clearly visible. Let's say I set up such a wall, could gardai/a court instruct me to take it down, or would they have to wait till someone was actually injured before they could do anything?

Fiskar

Darian Mealy Bedding wrote: »

I've got a question.
I used to live in the UK where you'd always see the odd wall with shards of glass glued to the top to dissuade people from attempting to climb over.

I'm fairly certain you'd be liable and subject to criminal penalties in Ireland if someone hurt themselves by attempting to climb over such a wall.

However, I find it hard to believe anyone would be stupid enough to try it in the first place if the glass was clearly visible. Let's say I set up such a wall, could gardai/a court instruct me to take it down, or would they have to wait till someone was actually injured before they could do anything?

Would have to be done discretely, suddenly there appeared on the top of the wall a layer of glass! Otherwise the finger pointers would be out (he done it Garda)

Unfortunately, if it is not nipped in the bud these guys if they fall into drugs when they are older will think nothing of going the extra step and getting into the property.

Visual intimidation is called for.

ABajaninCork

Darian Mealy Bedding wrote: »

I've got a question.
I used to live in the UK where you'd always see the odd wall with shards of glass glued to the top to dissuade people from attempting to climb over.

I'm fairly certain you'd be liable and subject to criminal penalties in Ireland if someone hurt themselves by attempting to climb over such a wall.

I'm pretty certain that's illegal in the UK too! Used to see that a lot as a child. And if someone was stupid enough to attempt to climb the wall and was injured, the householder would be sued as well as prosecuted...:mad:

belcampprisoner

probably illegal.but get cement and put broken bottles on top of wall

d lnk camera send photos by email the call guards

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/276-4001066-9606412?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ip+cameras#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ip+cameras+dlink&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aip+cameras+dlink

Procrastastudy

Occupiers Liability Act 1995

MadsL

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2011/05/classical-music-used-to-scatter-teens/

Couple of weeks of Vivaldi and Bach might make a difference if you can get your neighbours to agree. Rent a PA equipped van and sit in it.

Or motion activated Mosquito kit
http://www.compoundsecurity.co.uk/security-equipment/anti-loitering-vandalism-security-devices

the_syco

Zambia wrote: »

Everyday all of us are recorded without consent

I think the issue here is that the OP would be taking pictures of minors; they could (and if they're scum, probably will) twist the story into a bad light.

Darian Mealy Bedding wrote: »

I used to live in the UK where you'd always see the odd wall with shards of glass glued to the top to dissuade people from attempting to climb over.

Illegal. As for not saying who it was, €10,000 lawsuit against the house nearest the glass tends to loosen tongues.

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Occupiers Liability Act 1995

Although I disagree with putting glass & cement on the wall, if the wall was not in someones garden, I'd wonder if the above act comes into play? For example; if the wall was at the end of a road, but not acting as part of a boundary to the garden of a house.

=-=

As said, anti-climb paint.

Mat the trasher

Stick pigeon deterent spikes on the wall, similar to link here. Not as severe as glass but would make it a deterent.

http://www.deterapigeon.com/

Procrastastudy

the_syco wrote: »

Although I disagree with putting glass & cement on the wall, if the wall was not in someones garden, I'd wonder if the above act comes into play? For example; if the wall was at the end of a road, but not acting as part of a boundary to the garden of a house.

I think there is some way to decide who is the occupier - amazing how much I've managed to forget in under a year. That said I'm sure there must be some, rather unpleasant, penalty for someone doing this to a wall that isn't theirs.

Best to get the guards involved and perhaps set up a camera or better yet a neighbourhood watch / patrol.

seamey beag84

As I was a youth who used to climb the highwalls, loiter and drink the few cans, the tar and broken glass does actually work to an extent. I've seen it in a lot of places and I'm yet to see anyone jump these walls to this day.. You will get the odd fearless lunatic that will go for it but you will stop most of them, unless they're a bit crafty and bring along some thick carpet and lob it on top, seen it happen at stadiums. We assumed the houses had permission from the guards to put it up, no one really questioned it. They probably won't either..

the_syco

seamey beag84 wrote: »

We assumed the houses had permission from the guards to put it up, no one really questioned it. They probably won't either..

Back in the day, if ye fell it was tough sh|te. Now, someone will look to blame someone else, and then sue them if they can.

I'd say if someones hands got lacerated by glass, getting sued will be the least of the persons worries; being singled out by the remaining yobs would be a lot worse!

Pat Mustard

If the youths engage in disorderly conduct, call the Gardai, who have the power to direct them to move on.

If the youths are hanging around and watching houses in your area, that behaviour may fall under the category of harassment.

This is basically a tweeter which is set to develop frequencies which are inaudible to most adults, but audible and irritating to those who are under the age of approximately twenty years of age, afaik. Further details here.

Amazon sells a similar product here. It receives mixed reviews regarding its effectiveness. Also, it is marketed as an animal deterrent.

This site provides instructions on how to build your own.

If memory serves, some commentators have written that tweeters infringe childrens' rights. There are probably other areas of the law of which a tweeter owner/operator could possibly fall foul also, but they don't spring to mind at this hour of the morning.

The high frequency sounds which are employed can be annoying to animals such as cats and dogs as well as youths, so you should be aware of that.

EDIT: I didn't see the link to the Mosquito product in MadsL's post. I see those guys are looking for £350-£600 for their products.

Fiskar

the_syco wrote: »

I think the issue here is that the OP would be taking pictures of minors; they could (and if they're scum, probably will) twist the story into a bad light.



Should not be an issue. Have a good rapport with the local crime prevention officer.

I should elaborate that this wall is 90 metres long but one house in our estate adjoins it. Access from the adjoining estate is via the ESB transformer box and gated area that they kindly positioned up against the wall on the other side (in the adjoining estate) that allows access over into our estate. They use the wall of the adjoing house to get back over although some have incredible monkey like features that defy the "White men can't jump" principle to get back over.

Many thanks for all the responses and the links to the legislation. Some reading and planning will be involved from this point onwards.

endacl

MadsL wrote: »

Or motion activated Mosquito kit
http://www.compoundsecurity.co.uk/security-equipment/anti-loitering-vandalism-security-devices

All very well, unless the residents have kids, who set it off and drive themselves demented. Or if I lived there. I'm 39 and still sensitive to those frequencies...

Procrastastudy

Fiskar wrote: »

the_syco wrote: »

I think the issue here is that the OP would be taking pictures of minors; they could (and if they're scum, probably will) twist the story into a bad light.



Should not be an issue. Have a good rapport with the local crime prevention officer.

I should elaborate that this wall is 90 metres long but one house in our estate adjoins it. Access from the adjoining estate is via the ESB transformer box and gated area that they kindly positioned up against the wall on the other side (in the adjoining estate) that allows access over into our estate. They use the wall of the adjoing house to get back over although some have incredible monkey like features that defy the "White men can't jump" principle to get back over.

Many thanks for all the responses and the links to the legislation. Some reading and planning will be involved from this point onwards.

Sorry am I to understand part of this wall allows access to the ESB transformer station - there's an avenue for you. Get on to ESB - preventing kids climbing on that wall is a must.

mikemac1

Can I bump this thread?

Suppose I'm in an estate with the exact same issue as the OP. Kids hopping a high wall and using our estate as a shortcut on their way to knacker drinking in the wasteground beside the estate.

And on their way back the little ne'er do wells have been known to kick car wing mirrors and vandalize bikes.

Now the management agent has been emailed and photos taken and maybe myself has asked and pleaded for them to put down anti-climb paint. Will only cost a few euro.
But I am a renter and they don't even reply to me . They seem to be a lazy shower.

Can a renter put anti-climb paint on the wall themselves?

However a renter has no shares in the management company and doesn't have anything to do with ownership of the wall. It's not part of any single property, it's a boundary wall beside waste ground at the edge of the estate

Ken.

mikemac1 wrote: »

Can I bump this thread?

Suppose I'm in an estate with the exact same issue as the OP. Kids hopping a high wall and using our estate as a shortcut on their way to knacker drinking in the wasteground beside the estate.

And on their way back the little ne'er do wells have been known to kick car wing mirrors and vandalize bikes.

Now the management agent has been emailed and photos taken and maybe myself has asked and pleaded for them to put down anti-climb paint. Will only cost a few euro.
But I am a renter and they don't even reply to me . They seem to be a lazy shower.

Can a renter put anti-climb paint on the wall themselves?

However a renter has no shares in the management company and doesn't have anything to do with ownership of the wall. It's not part of any single property, it's a boundary wall beside waste ground at the edge of the estate

Contact your landlord. Keep contacting him. If it keeps up you may need to think about leaving.

LowKeyReturn

Get on to the landlord and explain you're moving out due to the anti-social behaviour of the yobs, get him to get onto the management company.

As much as realise it's not the right thing to do, I'm grateful for the fact I grew up in an Army town where lets just say these things had a habit of sorting themselves out.

billy few mates

We had a slightly similar problem in our estate a few years back with kids loitering in an area annoying the nearby residents. We briefly considered installing the Mosquito system...
http://movingsoundtech.com/

While researching the legalities and effectiveness of the system I came across an MP3 of the sound which I downloaded onto my computer. Once downloaded I clicked on it to play it, naturally I couldn't hear a thing despite turning it up to max, but within a few seconds my teenage kids who were upstairs at the time were pleading with me to switch it off as it was really annoying them....:D

I copied it to my phone and occasionally would switch it on just to see their reaction (I know I'm cruel, but in my defence it was fun )

I then asked my kids and one of their friends who happened to be there if it would be a deterrent to them and they said it absolutely would be, I was quiet surprised when they told me that the local shops already used the system to deter loitering (sure enough you don't see many kids hanging around there) and more surprised when one of the friends told me their next door neighbour has the system installed in their front garden as they don't want kids playing in front of their house.... :eek:

BornToKill

It may be effective. On the other hand, it likely counts as a s2 NFOATP Act assault.