OPen relationships??

LegacyUser

Hey guys,
Just wanted to ask a quick opinion.

Was chatting to a lad recently and he was telling me that he has a boyfriend and he also sleeps with other people. He says "well I fancy other people what's the harm, when its just sex".

When I mentioned that I wouldn't be into that he looked shocked as if I was the weird one. I mean I've had one serious relationship and although yeah I look around it just never crossed my mind to be with someone else.

I am not a very jealous person but I am also just into being with one person. I think if that person wanted to sleep with other people I wouldn't mind that much as long as it wasn't all the time and they still wanted to be with me. My logic is that life is short and I wouldn't want to deny anyone experiences that they want to have.

I am just wondering, is it the norm for gay men to want open relationships. Is there a possibility for monogamy and am I jsut trying to conform.

Any opinions...ideas.

: )

floggg

Is this Normal wrote: »

Hey guys,
Just wanted to ask a quick opinion.

Was chatting to a lad recently and he was telling me that he has a boyfriend and he also sleeps with other people. He says "well I fancy other people what's the harm, when its just sex".

When I mentioned that I wouldn't be into that he looked shocked as if I was the weird one. I mean I've had one serious relationship and although yeah I look around it just never crossed my mind to be with someone else.

I am not a very jealous person but I am also just into being with one person. I think if that person wanted to sleep with other people I wouldn't mind that much as long as it wasn't all the time and they still wanted to be with me. My logic is that life is short and I wouldn't want to deny anyone experiences that they want to have.

I am just wondering, is it the norm for gay men to want open relationships. Is there a possibility for monogamy and am I jsut trying to conform.

Any opinions...ideas.

: )

It's the norm for everybody, male, female, straight or gay, to want to sleep with other people. You can't turn off sexual attraction - it's hardwired (asexually excepted).

Of course in a truly monogamous relationship, both partners agree not to act on those desires and commit to each other.

There are plenty of people who argue that we aren't naturally meant to be monogamous - and for men at least, traditionally we weren't.

Given how bad we are as a species at strict monogamy, I think that is a fair argument to make.

Don't get me wrong, monogamy is doable, and many do it quite well, but it does take work and sacrifice by both partners.

Equally though it takes a lot of trust, honesty and commitment to make an open relationship work.

I don't think you can say one is always better then the other - I think it very much depends on the couple and what they want or expect and what they can handle.

Tainor

Is this Normal wrote: »

Hey guys,
Just wanted to ask a quick opinion.

Was chatting to a lad recently and he was telling me that he has a boyfriend and he also sleeps with other people. He says "well I fancy other people what's the harm, when its just sex".

When I mentioned that I wouldn't be into that he looked shocked as if I was the weird one. I mean I've had one serious relationship and although yeah I look around it just never crossed my mind to be with someone else.

I am not a very jealous person but I am also just into being with one person. I think if that person wanted to sleep with other people I wouldn't mind that much as long as it wasn't all the time and they still wanted to be with me. My logic is that life is short and I wouldn't want to deny anyone experiences that they want to have.

I am just wondering, is it the norm for gay men to want open relationships. Is there a possibility for monogamy and am I jsut trying to conform.

Any opinions...ideas.

: )

I think people in open relationships are very mixed up. They are naturally afraid of commitment, but also seek to have that person next to them to be with in times of need and just to rub off the loneliness at night times. An open relationship seeks the notion of "it's just sex, I still care for you though". I think such words are absolutely untrue, to have a sexual encounter requires an emotional experience as well, and further shows that there is no true bonding in the "open relationship". Those type of relationships simply do not work for me, as I am very committed and caring person and I look for people who would be the same.

I personally have been in two relationships and both have been strictly monogamous and long term (2 years and 1.5 years). One ended due to unforeseen causes and the other ended on mutual terms due to moving abroad.
My believe is that once you decided to approach a relationship, that means you and the person across are committing: time, energy and emotions to harbour a physical and emotional attachment that will will beneficial and naturally caring for both. If you're unable to commit to such objectives, my advice to all people is to simply not enter into a relationship, as at it can lead to more struggle and emotional discord later on.
I have heard of gay couples that are in civil partnership and even then decide that sleeping around is no harm as long as it's "just sex"?

I think this is one of the reasons why heterosexual people think of homosexuals as over-sexual and promiscuous. Ergo I do not buy the argument that it's because all man are sexual, if that was the case straight relationships would always fall apart, yet that is not the majority as it seems.

By the way I am speaking as a young man of 24 years of age, and not as someone who is 40+ and has a different view on society today.

baby and crumble

I am monogomous, and I have a feeling I always will be. However, if it works for other people, who am I to decide otherwise?

Tainor wrote: »

An open relationship seeks the notion of "it's just sex, I still care for you though".

I don't think that's strictly true. I have spoken to a number of couples who are either polyamorous or in an open relationship (in all imaginable permutations; m/m, f/f, m/f etc.) and they don't see it like that. Surely it's up to the individuals involved to define and understand their relationship, rather than those outside it?

Tainor wrote: »

I have heard of gay couples that are in civil partnership and even then decide that sleeping around is no harm as long as it's "just sex"?

Well, if both partners are in agreement, I don't see what the problem is. It's their choice. I don't think I could be in an open or poly relationship, but tbh I'd never say never. And I certainly wouldn't knock other people who are. It's really none of my business.

If we were like swans, there would be no need for divorce and separations. Humans are not naturally monogamous, we have to work at it and it takes will power. Just look at the rates of divorce and separation.
Two people can be soul mates and would never want to separate but at the sametime they might want to explore sex with other people without impacting their own relationship.
Its each to their own.

Annasopra

Tainor wrote: »

I think people in open relationships are very mixed up. They are naturally afraid of commitment, but also seek to have that person next to them to be with in times of need and just to rub off the loneliness at night times. An open relationship seeks the notion of "it's just sex, I still care for you though". I think such words are absolutely untrue, to have a sexual encounter requires an emotional experience as well, and further shows that there is no true bonding in the "open relationship".

I strongly disagree with all of the above. I know people in open relationships that are; committed, not mixed up at all and are clearly bonded.

An open relationship isn't something that I think I would personally like to pursue. It wouldn't work for me but it works for others.

lazorgirl

Deleted User wrote: »

If we were like swans, there would be no need for divorce and separations. Humans are not naturally monogamous, we have to work at it and it takes will power. Just look at the rates of divorce and separation.
Two people can be soul mates and would never want to separate but at the sametime they might want to explore sex with other people without impacting their own relationship.
Its each to their own.

i think a lot of research has disproved the monagamous swan theory, black swans from Australasia being particularly non-monagamous. off off topic i read a book Partnerships in Birds that demonstrated a lot of research to show that swans are one of the few species who revert / diverge to homosexual relationships when lonely (not sure if they are open or monagomous though)

back on topic, regarding open relationships the most successful i know is where there is real honesty on both sides regarding what needs outside of their relationship need to be met and having certain a few small rules as to how this is achieved for each person. as long as both partners are content with set up, and it does take a strong level of trust ,healthy attachment and relative lack of insecurity, then it can and does work for some couples.

floggg

Tainor wrote: »

I think people in open relationships are very mixed up. They are naturally afraid of commitment, but also seek to have that person next to them to be with in times of need and just to rub off the loneliness at night times. An open relationship seeks the notion of "it's just sex, I still care for you though". I think such words are absolutely untrue, to have a sexual encounter requires an emotional experience as well, and further shows that there is no true bonding in the "open relationship". Those type of relationships simply do not work for me, as I am very committed and caring person and I look for people who would be the same.

I personally have been in two relationships and both have been strictly monogamous and long term (2 years and 1.5 years). One ended due to unforeseen causes and the other ended on mutual terms due to moving abroad.
My believe is that once you decided to approach a relationship, that means you and the person across are committing: time, energy and emotions to harbour a physical and emotional attachment that will will beneficial and naturally caring for both. If you're unable to commit to such objectives, my advice to all people is to simply not enter into a relationship, as at it can lead to more struggle and emotional discord later on.
I have heard of gay couples that are in civil partnership and even then decide that sleeping around is no harm as long as it's "just sex"?

I think this is one of the reasons why heterosexual people think of homosexuals as over-sexual and promiscuous. Ergo I do not buy the argument that it's because all man are sexual, if that was the case straight relationships would always fall apart, yet that is not the majority as it seems.

By the way I am speaking as a young man of 24 years of age, and not as someone who is 40+ and has a different view on society today.

It may well be the case that YOU personally cannot have or enjoy sex without an emotional connection, and if you are happy with that approach then great.

Many other people can indeed have sex, and very enjoyable sex at that, without an emotional connection.

As for straight men, given the amount of one night stands they engage in, and the high demand for prostitutes despite its illegality, I think you will also find that they are more than capable of emotionless sex.

Similarly for straight women too, though society discourages it.

There are also many straight couples in open relationships, so it's definitely not a gay thing only.

As I said earlier, open relationships are not for everybody. Clearly they aren't for you, which is fine.

I think you should respect the fact that some people look at things in a different perspective and you can't assume that what's true for you will be true for them.

Davyhal

I think open relationships are a cop out to be honest. A way of getting around the temptation. However, I personally cannot see how they can possibly work. Everyone has a degree of jealousy in them, and I for one would not be able to control it.

I have never tried an open relationship. I have met and scored guys on nights out to be informed afterwards that they are in an open relationship, which really made me feel kind of used. Maybe I would have felt differently if I had been informed from the beginning of what the situation was.

There was another guy I used to be kissing and cuddling for a few months, however he told me that if I wanted a relationship, it would have to be an open relationship due to the fact that for six months of the year he works in another city and he would only be back about once a month. Needless to say, I was not up for that, and that was pretty much the end of him!

Annasopra

Davyhal wrote: »

I think open relationships are a cop out to be honest. A way of getting around the temptation. However, I personally cannot see how they can possibly work. Everyone has a degree of jealousy in them, and I for one would not be able to control it.

I have never tried an open relationship. I have met and scored guys on nights out to be informed afterwards that they are in an open relationship, which really made me feel kind of used. Maybe I would have felt differently if I had been informed from the beginning of what the situation was.

There was another guy I used to be kissing and cuddling for a few months, however he told me that if I wanted a relationship, it would have to be an open relationship due to the fact that for six months of the year he works in another city and he would only be back about once a month. Needless to say, I was not up for that, and that was pretty much the end of him!

I really don't understand this part in bold.

You seem to assuming that because an open relationship would not work for you that they will not work for anyone/everyone.

That is like a straight man assuming that gay relationships will never work because they don't work for him.

Davyhal

mango salsa wrote: »

I really don't understand this part in bold.

You seem to assuming that because an open relationship would not work for you that they will not work for anyone/everyone.

That is like a straight man assuming that gay relationships will never work because they don't work for him.

Sorry, of course this is just my opinion. I did not mean to state so "manner-of-fact"ly!

Tainor

floggg wrote: »

It may well be the case that YOU personally cannot have or enjoy sex without an emotional connection, and if you are happy with that approach then great.

Many other people can indeed have sex, and very enjoyable sex at that, without an emotional connection.

As for straight men, given the amount of one night stands they engage in, and the high demand for prostitutes despite its illegality, I think you will also find that they are more than capable of emotionless sex.

Similarly for straight women too, though society discourages it.

There are also many straight couples in open relationships, so it's definitely not a gay thing only.

As I said earlier, open relationships are not for everybody. Clearly they aren't for you, which is fine.

I think you should respect the fact that some people look at things in a different perspective and you can't assume that what's true for you will be true for them.

I will say that it is my opinion open relationship will not work for me.

But, I also disagree with your point of having and emotionless sex. By it's very nature sex has evolved as a form of emotional bonding in order to facilitate procreation for new life. Just because we are homosexual that does not mean sex does not serve the similar aspect that it has evolved to. I do not wish to turn this thread into evolution of homosexuality so let's leave it like this.

Straight man will tend to not be as promiscuous as gay man and that is a fact well established and proven. You can call it whatever you want: women factor, commitment, heterosexual magic....but it is a fact that straight couples are more committed to each other than gay ones.

I stand by what I've said from what I have experienced so far, and it seems that open-relationships are seem more norm in gay society than straight ones. I respect other people's choice in relationships, but as the original poster has said a lot of gay man look upon you with bewilderment if you do not accept open-relationships concept as if you are the weird one, when this discussion arises, and when people are trying to force their own ideals on others this is when I get defensive, as numerous people including yourself are justifying open-relationships by equating that straight people do it as well, by visiting prostitutes and other "valve releases" in secret, but there is name for this it's called cheating.

So I will keep saying that in my opinion people in open-relationships are simply scared to commitment in long-term.

floggg

Davyhal wrote: »

I think open relationships are a cop out to be honest. A way of getting around the temptation. However, I personally cannot see how they can possibly work. Everyone has a degree of jealousy in them, and I for one would not be able to control it.

I have never tried an open relationship. I have met and scored guys on nights out to be informed afterwards that they are in an open relationship, which really made me feel kind of used. Maybe I would have felt differently if I had been informed from the beginning of what the situation was.

There was another guy I used to be kissing and cuddling for a few months, however he told me that if I wanted a relationship, it would have to be an open relationship due to the fact that for six months of the year he works in another city and he would only be back about once a month. Needless to say, I was not up for that, and that was pretty much the end of him!

I never had one, so I'm not sure if I could handle any insecurity or jealousy which might arise myself.

That said though, I think it's healthier to acknowledge that you both would like to have sex with other people (whether or not you actually do anything about it), rather than operate a naive misconception that your partner should be the only one you ever want and vice versa.

I think it's healthy to acknowledge that love doesn't preclude lust, and that lust is a natural and normal thing that can't be avoided, rather than seeing these sort of things as a threat or a betrayal.

And I think a recognition that absolute fidelity and monogamy takes hard work and commitment is also important.

Successful open relationships need good communication, trust and honesty. I think these are things that are lacking in a lot of monogamous relationships unfortunately.

I think an open relationship where both parties work hard to communicate and maintain their commitment and meet each others needs is healthy than a monogamous relationship where the couple don't maybe feel the same need or pressure to do this.

baby and crumble

Tainor wrote: »

but it is a fact that straight couples are more committed to each other than gay ones

Wow. Just wow.

Can I ask you where you saw this 'fact'?

This kind of stuff gets my hackles up. It is not FACT. It may be something you have noted from observation of your circle of friends/ people you know but it is not a fact.

Couples, gay or straight, have to work at their relationships to be the type of relationship they want. My and my partners choice is a monogamous relationship, and we are committed to that. However, if we were committed to each other but decided that for us, an open relationship would be best, then that is our decision. It would not necessarily negate the commitment to each other. Yes, to others it might seem like less, but only we could know.

So you are wrong to state this as "fact". It is an opinion. Unless you can back it up with respected studies (and more than one) then it is not fact.

1ZRed

Tainor wrote: »

I will say that it is my opinion open relationship will not work for me.

But, I also disagree with your point of having and emotionless sex. By it's very nature sex has evolved as a form of emotional bonding in order to facilitate procreation for new life. Just because we are homosexual that does not mean sex does not serve the similar aspect that it has evolved to. I do not wish to turn this thread into evolution of homosexuality so let's leave it like this.

It doesn't always have to be. I could have fantastic sex without any emotional bond as could the many, many people (straight and gay) having ONS.

That is your view and what doesn't work for you which is fair enough. But humans are very much capable of sex without an emotional bond and why not? Sex is fantastic.

Straight man will tend to not be as promiscuous as gay man and that is a fact well established and proven. You can call it whatever you want: women factor, commitment, heterosexual magic....but it is a fact that straight couples are more committed to each other than gay ones.

This is ridiculous. ALL men are just as promiscuous as each other, regardless of sexual orientation.

The reason gay men may appear to be more promiscuous is because we can get sex much easier as it is two men - men are very sexual creatures, whereas woman are more reserved, so it is not as easy for them as it is for us to get sex. Remove the woman and add the man, and you get more sex as we're more direct about it.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying yourself either if it is all consensual and it is not the negative which I feel you're trying to imply.

I stand by what I've said from what I have experienced so far, and it seems that open-relationships are seem more norm in gay society than straight ones.

Maybe that is because gay relationships don't conform to the typical straight conventions so we have the freedom to be more open and try things out without stigma which straight couples wouldn't be able to do so readily because of the social pressures on them and their type of relationships.

I also believe that although open relationships may be more common in the gay community, I believe straight people also agree to open relationships quite commonly also but aren't as open as a gay couple would be because of the stigma attatched to them.

I respect other people's choice in relationships, but as the original poster has said a lot of gay man look upon you with bewilderment if you do not accept open-relationships concept as if you are the weird one, when this discussion arises, and when people are trying to force their own ideals on others this is when I get defensive, as numerous people including yourself are justifying open-relationships by equating that straight people do it as well, by visiting prostitutes and other "valve releases" in secret, but there is name for this it's called cheating.

A lot of people look at you with bewilderment because it's surpirsing that you're gay that you can't have a "live and let live" attitude to something that, if not your thing, won't effect you and is different to you. I'm not sure if an open relationship would be for me, and I don't think it would, but I couldn't bother my ass thinking about it in a negative way, I just don't care and I let them at it.

There's nothing wrong with it if both are open and honest so why do you have such strong and criticising views and opinions on it?

*It is also not cheating if both people agree to those conditions to play away. Cheating is breaking the rules that have been set in the relationship by both people, not necessarily sleeping with somebody else.

**The argument about using prostitutes was to enforce the idea that emotionless sex is very much done and in demand, there was no talk of men sneaking off on the sly or in "secret" to cheat - you took that out of context.

So I will keep saying that in my opinion people in open-relationships are simply scared to commitment in long-term.

This is ridiculous. I've met a few couples in open relationships and each one seemed to have different agreements to suit their relationship. Some played away, some played together.

In the end they were very committed to each other. I actually found that those that played together were very close and committed as it's something they can both do and bond over as it's always a new experience being shared. And why not? They clearly loved each other very much and it worked for them. It mightn't for you or I, but it suited them so who cares.

I think you've some notions to work through and need to open your mind to the concept that commitment can also be as solid in an open relationship as an exclusive one if it works for them and the degree of openness and trust is just as strong.

floggg

Tainor wrote: »

I will say that it is my opinion open relationship will not work for me.

But, I also disagree with your point of having and emotionless sex. By it's very nature sex has evolved as a form of emotional bonding in order to facilitate procreation for new life. Just because we are homosexual that does not mean sex does not serve the similar aspect that it has evolved to. I do not wish to turn this thread into evolution of homosexuality so let's leave it like this.

Straight man will tend to not be as promiscuous as gay man and that is a fact well established and proven. You can call it whatever you want: women factor, commitment, heterosexual magic....but it is a fact that straight couples are more committed to each other than gay ones.

I stand by what I've said from what I have experienced so far, and it seems that open-relationships are seem more norm in gay society than straight ones. I respect other people's choice in relationships, but as the original poster has said a lot of gay man look upon you with bewilderment if you do not accept open-relationships concept as if you are the weird one, when this discussion arises, and when people are trying to force their own ideals on others this is when I get defensive, as numerous people including yourself are justifying open-relationships by equating that straight people do it as well, by visiting prostitutes and other "valve releases" in secret, but there is name for this it's called cheating.

So I will keep saying that in my opinion people in open-relationships are simply scared to commitment in long-term.

Sorry, but you cannot tell me there is no such thing as emotionless sex. I've had enough of it by now to know it exists, and it can be quite fun.

It's not for you, and as I said I respect that.

And without getting this dragged off thread, I think most evolutionary biologists would tend towards the view that men are designed to spread their seed as widely as possible, and so if anythinh would tend towards not connecting sex and emotions.

And again, going back to prostitutes, do you still think a John is in love with a prostitute in that 30 mins of grubby "passion?" No. Emotionless sex.

Where is it proven that straight men tend not to be as promiscuous? And that all gay men are promiscuous?

Gay men might statistically have more partners, but that is because we have more opportunity. You give your average straight man the chance to have as much emotionless sex as gay men have the opportunity to have and they would certainly tend towards taking that opportunity.

Added to that fact, having had to accept that just by being gay we are outside the norm and are breaking sexual taboos, I think it's easier for gay men to be open minded towards new sexual experiences and relationship types. We already stand out to a degree, so we become less worried about what "the neighbours might think" than people living a "conventional life" might be.

Equally there are many committed monogamous gay couples as well, so it's certainly not true that all gay men are the same.

And it is absolutely true that straight couples engage in them (probably not that common in Ireland yet, as we can be a bit sexually reserved, and certainly not something they might broadcast here). So for you to try and define this conversation in terms of a gay tendency towards promiscuity is absurd.

Not to mention disrespectful towards committed gay couples and monogamists.

I'm not forcing anything on anybody. I've been very careful to say they work for some but not others. Heck, I've acknowledged that I don't know if I can handle them.

I'm just saying I can see that there are merits to them. I of course acknowledge that there are also potential pitfalls and draw backs too.

Finally, it's only called cheating if there is deception and a lack of consent.

But given how much cheating and infidelity there is in monogamous relationships, does it not show that monogamy is hard and that we are by our nature inclined to stray.

If some couples are prepared to accept that fact and allow each other to indulge these urges from time to time, then that's a matter for them.


Equally if others would rather commit to each other on a full time and exclusive basis, then fine.

Personally, I think if a partner was to cheat on me, it wouldn't be the sex that would leave me feeling betrayed, but the fact that he broke a commitment to me.

Annasopra

Tainor wrote: »

Straight man will tend to not be as promiscuous as gay man and that is a fact well established and proven. You can call it whatever you want: women factor, commitment, heterosexual magic....but it is a fact that straight couples are more committed to each other than gay ones.

Where is the proof that this is a fact?

Tainor

I apologise for my long post, but I've felt the need to back up my previous posts, claims and thoughts with academic studies, statistics and some form of empirical quantitative data.

mango salsa wrote: »

Where is the proof that this is a fact?

Here: The percentage of heterosexual men who reported having sex with someone other than their wife dropped to 10% in 2000 from 28% in 1975; among married women, it declined to 14% from 23%. Among gay men, the percentage who cheated on a partner they lived with dropped to 59% from 83%; for lesbians it declined to 8% from 28%. Half the gays and lesbians in the study were in civil unions, half were living together in committed relationships, the researchers say.

The rate of heterosexual couples cheating on each other is lower in contrast to the ones in a homosexual relationship and mind it, only with gay homosexual relationships in staggering contrast to lesbian couples. That research has been carried out over 25 years.

(cited in USA Today; 9/9/2011 at
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/wellness/marriage/story/2011-09-05/Gay-straight-couples-more-monogamous-than-in-the-past/50267258/1 )

The rate of cheating has reduced dramatically in homosexual relationships, but it is still highly prevailing.

Also

"the cheating ratio of 'married' gay males, given enough time, approaches 100%.
After the Ball; Marshall Kirk and Hunter; Madsen; Doubleday, 1989

Also

According to a 1991 study of 900 homosexuals by Dr. Martin Dannecker, German "sexologist" who is a homosexual himself, 83% of the males living in "steady relationships" had numerous sexual encounters outside the partnership over a one-year period.

and Also

A study of young Dutch homosexual men, published in the journal AIDS (May 2, 2003 p1029-1038) by Dr. Maria Xiridou, gives yet another indication that homosexual men tend to not be monogamous, even when they are involved in long-term relationships. The Dutch study -- which focused on transmission of HIV -- found that men in homosexual relationships on average have eight partners a year outside those relationships

(cited in The Washington Times article; 11/07/2003 at
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030711-121254-3711r.htm)

BUT

That is not to say that homosexual relationships are not successful, on the contrary they are every bit as successful if time, dedication and effort is imput into them: as follows

Results showed that same-sex relationships were similar to those of opposite-sex couples in many ways. All had positive views of their relationships but those in the more committed relationships (gay and straight) resolved conflict better than the heterosexual dating couples. And lesbian couples worked together especially harmoniously during the laboratory tasks.

The notion that committed same-sex relationships are "atypical, psychologically immature, or malevolent contexts of development was not supported by our findings," said lead author Glenn I. Roisman, PhD. "Compared with married individuals, committed gay males and lesbians were not less satisfied with their relationships."

Furthermore, said Roisman, "Gay males and lesbians in this study were generally not different from their committed heterosexual counterparts on how well they interacted with one another, although some evidence emerged the lesbian couples were especially effective at resolving conflict."

Pam Willenz. "A Comparison Between Gay And Heterosexual Couples Finds Equal Level Of Commitment And Relationship Satisfaction." Medical News Today. MediLexicon, Intl., 22 Jan. 2008. Web.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/94695.php

As discussed prior the relationships in heterosexual couples:

Only 25% of heterosexual couples in long-term relationships are in some form of poly-amorous relationship, almost half as less than gay couples.
75% of relationships tend to be monogamous in heterosexual couples.

(cited in Many cheat for a thrill, more stay true for love; MSNBC, /16/4/2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17951664/ns/health-sexual_health/#.UPCTvW8z3D6 )

Sorry, but you cannot tell me there is no such thing as emotionless sex. I've had enough of it by now to know it exists, and it can be quite fun.

I think you misunderstand to what I refer as emotional sex, I do not mean love and feeling persai, what I mean is emotional/physical attraction that results from the act. In order for sex to be enjoyable a chemical reaction in the brain reward centre activates, hence pleasure and joy which are emotions ergo all sexual interaction is emotional, but not long-term emotional. Also why we desire sex continuously, as it stimulates our please centre in the brain and also increases dopamine production which makes you feel good
I hope you understand what I mean.

Again I will state open-relationships are not my cup of tea, and I do try to live life fully, but my believe is that they will not work for me.

I will not deny one bit, that monogamy is hard, it takes a lot of time and dedication to make it workable and enjoyable and in a lot of cases it ends up crashing like a ton of bricks. I too can see the merits of open-relationships where people are releasing steam.

I think people need to understand that relationships involve so much more than just sex, sex is great, it is fabulous, but it is not what keeps a long-term relationship and I think that's what really is the focus of open-relationships "Sex", getting as much as possible, which is not bad, but it is not the true focus of any relationship as anyone in a long term relationship will agree I think.

I wonder, if sex was removed from the equation for open relationships, if people would even want them any more? Sex seems to be put on the forefront of relationship requirements in our modern times...

People tend to assume natural fallacy when it comes to men- it's underlying assumption is that what is found in nature is good, which is simply not necessarily the case, as we know from everyday life.

Yes open-relationships can work in times, and then work for some people, but it is my opinion that they will not work for me.

Open-relationships seem a bit like, eating your cake and having it too, not really possible?

And this is the last post that I will be making on this subject, I feel I have dedicated enough time, effort and concentration on this topic.

floggg

I won't dissect that in detail, but I have a couple of observations.

Firstly, many if those studies are rather dated. The attitude and lifestyle of many gay people in the 90's differs greatly from today.

There was a lot less people "out" then, and those that were openly gay tended to be rather more non-conformists. Family orientated people probably stayed in the closet.

They also don't compare like with like. Married straight relationships versus cohabiting gays. If you compare cohabiting straights to cohabiting gays then you have an apt comparison.

And with all that said, gay men probably do have more extra curricular relationships. But that doesn't mean we are necessarily more promiscuous by nature. There are many variables here in comparison to straight men.

As has been said already, by virtue of our experiences we tend to be more sexually liberated and open minded. We have also been excluded from the traditional relationship and family models to date, so are thus have had to embrace unconventional relationship forms.

That means that while a straight gay and a gay guy might both be equally inclined to a non traditional relationship, by virtue of his experiences the gay guy might be more willing to embrace it.

I wonder though as gay relationships become more normalised nd accepted whether this will change.




As for the "emotional" aspect, I think you are giving an overly wide definition to emotions in this context. If simple chemical releases experienced before and after sex are enough to make it an emotional act, then eating chocolate could probably also be described as an "emotional" act as it also triggers certain chemical releases which result in feelings of happiness and pleasure.

Equally cigarettes and drugs.


I don't think it's right to say that the focus of an open relationship is sex. I think that's a misunderstanding of how the operate and their purpose.

In an open relationship the couple will generally rely on each other for emotional and financial support and companionship in the same way as a monogamous relationship.

In an open relationship though, the couple can separate this to an extent from sex. They don't rely on sexual exclusivity to maintain their emotional bonds.

Indeed you could say that the emotional aspect is more important in an open relationship than a monogamous one. A monogamous relationship is characterised by an emotional and sexual commitment. An open relationship may be defined by the emotional commitment only, and so the couple must give this a lot of focus.

They accept that they can meet their sexual needs elsewhere, but not their emotional needs.

And it's not about getting as much sx as possible. There are various forms with various rules. Some only play together, to keep their sex life exciting. Others play separately to various degrees and frequency.

But I don't think you do this because all you want is sex. It's because you don't believe tht sex outside the relationship doesn't hurt the relationship and commitment made.

In fact many people on open relationships say that opening it up helped them, by ensuring sexual dissatisfaction doesn't undermine an otherwise great emotional relationship and by ensuring the couple works hard to maintain that emotional relationship.

For example, if a couple had a mistchrf libido, I think the idea of opening up the relationship might be preferable to either having to split up because one party is sexually unhappy, or else staying in a relationship but growing frustrated and resentful due to the sexual problems.