should calves be dosed

vanderbadger

just wondering would young calves born indoors have lungworms? i didnt think they would but have alot of calves with bad cough, they arent sick, have had ctc powder and have easibreather lick, most of these calves would have been born indoors so wondering if i should dose them. vet tells me if they arent sick its a virus but its driving me nuts, every time im in the shed they are coughing

mikeoh

Mine are the same 6/8 weeks old I poured 10ml of mastermectin on their backs this morning....won't do them any harm

Muckit

Follow your vets advice. He didn;t do 5 years in college for nothing

I wouldn't be dosing for any kind of worms until at least the middle of summer when they're a while exposed to grass. Milk is the main part of a suckler calf's diet for the first 6 months.

leg wax

went through all that coughing on the 15th of dec ended up injecting calves for 10 days different calf each day ,gave them all rispoval rs p13 in up the nose ,i can now say i have a shed of calves this year, it has made a huge difference.the hair on them is lovely and silky again,all calves from here on will get bovipast rsp and bovillis ibr.

mikeoh

. Milk is the main part of a suckler calf's diet for the first 6 months.[/Quote]
Calves sucking dirty teats inside in slatted shed/creeps can't be healthy

mahoney_j

Sounds like a touch of virus pnuemonia,I had calves like that a few years back and on vets advice i injected them with bovipast and they turned inside out within a week.I now inject all calves at 5 days old and give a booster 21 days after the first shot

Muckit

mikeoh wrote: »

. Milk is the main part of a suckler calf's diet for the first 6 months.

Calves sucking dirty teats inside in slatted shed/creeps can't be healthy[/QUOTE]

ya but they're more likely to get coccidosis from this (if anything... it'I build up their immune system), not lung or stomach worms

greysides

Where calves have been reared indoors with cows going in and out to them I have wondered about this too but I have been reassured that it could not be the case.
I would agree with your vet.

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Sounds like a touch of virus pnuemonia,I had calves like that a few years back and on vets advice i injected them with bovipast and they turned inside out within a week.I now inject all calves at 5 days old and give a booster 21 days after the first shot

Bovipast:)There is no way they could have worms never been to grass

pakalasa

Also, one thing I always do and that is to keep the straw bed as dry as possible. If you walk on the straw and it feels soggy and wet underneath, then you are in trouble.

bob charles

you guys giving calves boviplast please make it know to a buyer if selling as I would much prefer to be giving extra for these animals. If your having serious problems very young under a month I would think it would be better to use rispoval intranasal as its a much quicker onset of immunity

dzer2

You have a virus, rispoval up da nose at 2 euro a calf you will see the difference after 2 days. There are 2 types the orange box and blue box. The blue box can be given even if the calf is coughing. When we buy in calves I inject 3mls of draxin under skin then 4 days later risproval is given.

PatQfarmer

leg wax wrote: »

went through all that coughing on the 15th of dec ended up injecting calves for 10 days different calf each day ,gave them all rispoval rs p13 in up the nose ,i can now say i have a shed of calves this year, it has made a huge difference.the hair on them is lovely and silky again,all calves from here on will get bovipast rsp and bovillis ibr.

We do all our bucket-reared calves with IBR and Bovipast for RSV and PI3 shortly after arrival. And Baycox. Makes for much easier rearing. Have done it without Vaccinating and had a hard time of it!
50 calves reared this Autumn, only used one shot of Nuflor, nothing else...so far:rolleyes:
WRT Rispoval IBR vaccine, I have found the intra-nasal to be a bit hit and miss, most of it getting up my nose rather than the calves:)
Rep told me ok to i/m them from 4 weeks of age. We did that to all this year for 1st time, no problems so far.

vanderbadger

PatQfarmer wrote: »

We do all our bucket-reared calves with IBR and Bovipast for RSV and PI3 shortly after arrival. And Baycox. Makes for much easier rearing. Have done it without Vaccinating and had a hard time of it!
50 calves reared this Autumn, only used one shot of Nuflor, nothing else...so far:rolleyes:
WRT Rispoval IBR vaccine, I have found the intra-nasal to be a bit hit and miss, most of it getting up my nose rather than the calves:)
Rep told me ok to i/m them from 4 weeks of age. We did that to all this year for 1st time, no problems so far.

Thanks pat. Do you buy off your vet ?

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

Bovipast:)There is no way they could have worms never been to grass

Bovipast is a pnuemonia vaccine Delaval

6480

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bovipast is a pnuemonia vaccine Delaval

i think its as much more important as BVD

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Bovipast is a pnuemonia vaccine Delaval

I know??????????

mikeoh

mikeoh wrote: »

Mine are the same 6/8 weeks old I poured 10ml of mastermectin on their backs this morning....won't do them any harm

I don't know whether it was the pour on or the crisp frosty air the past 2 nights but no calves coughing here anymore!!

PatQfarmer

vanderbadger wrote: »

Thanks pat. Do you buy off your vet ?

Yes. Rispoval, Bovipast and Baycox all bought from vet.
Great practice in Clonmel, Southview Vet Clinic.

vanderbadger

just to update..calves are still coughing, vets did nasal swap on sample of 6 calves and send off to lab so will have to wait and see what they say

PatQfarmer

vanderbadger wrote: »

just to update..calves are still coughing, vets did nasal swap on sample of 6 calves and send off to lab so will have to wait and see what they say

You have a virus of some sort, probably not too bad if you haven't had to treat any of them yet!
If temperatures are ok, no snotty noses and all are eating ok, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
If it is really annoying you, Respichlor (CTC powders on the feed) for 7-10 days will shift the cough, but the virus will go through them all unless vaccinated anyway.
Your first post was the 9th, so less than a week ago. Most viruses will last 2 weeks plus, they should start to get better soon....:rolleyes:
Interested to hear result of nasal swab.

vanderbadger

PatQfarmer wrote: »

You have a virus of some sort, probably not too bad if you haven't had to treat any of them yet!
If temperatures are ok, no snotty noses and all are eating ok, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
If it is really annoying you, Respichlor (CTC powders on the feed) for 7-10 days will shift the cough, but the virus will go through them all unless vaccinated anyway.
Your first post was the 9th, so less than a week ago. Most viruses will last 2 weeks plus, they should start to get better soon....:rolleyes:
Interested to hear result of nasal swab.

thye have been thru 5 bags of CTC at this stage Pat which doesnt seem to have made any odds, coughing for alot longer than 9 days at this stage, they arent sick but all this coughing cant be helping them thrive i feel

dzer2

vanderbadger wrote: »

thye have been thru 5 bags of CTC at this stage Pat which doesnt seem to have made any odds, coughing for alot longer than 9 days at this stage, they arent sick but all this coughing cant be helping them thrive i feel

Is it a dry cough if so its the airway thats swollen I had a full shed of this last week and vet said to vaccinate with rispoval IBR Marker live. This seems to have stopped the cough but it needs a back up shot under the skin in 3 weeks

vanderbadger

dzer2 wrote: »

Is it a dry cough if so its the airway thats swollen I had a full shed of this last week and vet said to vaccinate with rispoval IBR Marker live. This seems to have stopped the cough but it needs a back up shot under the skin in 3 weeks

ya its a course type of cough alright..

PatQfarmer

vanderbadger wrote: »

ya its a course type of cough alright..

Hope the swab result is back soon. Didn't realise you were still on the powders.
Vaccinate them with whatever is recommended then. I'd say IBR and Bovipast as well. Their immunity will be low. Feed them on a bit too, it all helps. Cheaper than losing one:rolleyes:

delaval

Bpvipast and IBR up the nose today you need to stop this in its tracks

vanderbadger

delaval wrote: »

Bpvipast and IBR up the nose today you need to stop this in its tracks

I know! i mean that my thinking as well, i asked for bovipast but basically the vets didnt want to sell it to me without doing swab, said it would be shooting in the dark. im a bit frustrated to be honest, the calves arent sick and have no snotty noses so thought that would narrow it down to maybe PI3 virus which vet tells me is harmless enough but causes cough..seems like a match to me but have to follow advice im given.

delaval

I know how you feel, very frustrating waiting for results. Bovipast will cover PI3. You sound like you know what to do, encouraging to hear of a vet not pushing meds down your neck

greysides

It's possible the CTC is the reason you've had no sick calves yet but beware there is a limit on how long you can keep them on it. It should state how long on the bucket.
I'll be interested to know if the swabs show any result. I've had very little success with swabs. Labs don't want to run PI3 and RSV serology as they say all results come back positive..............
Might be interesting to see if mycoplasmae can be checked on the swab samples. I've a feeling it requires a special swab........ then again CTC should have hit it.

Not sure if you've commented on your feeding regime but an oral tonic would be a welcome boost, mix in with the meal.

leg wax

would i be correct in saying that swabs are very hit and miss as the virus is only in the nose for a number of days and then goes down to cause the damage so unless you swab the day its in the nose its a waste of time. my vet had me holding on and wait to see if it clears feck that he got more call outs, never again all vac from now on, no more callouts at 70 plus euros a calf.2 -4 call outs and the vac is paid for.

PatQfarmer

leg wax wrote: »

would i be correct in saying that swabs are very hit and miss as the virus is only in the nose for a number of days and then goes down to cause the damage so unless you swab the day its in the nose its a waste of time. my vet had me holding on and wait to see if it clears feck that he got more call outs, never again all vac from now on, no more callouts at 70 plus euros a calf.2 -4 call outs and the vac is paid for.

Agree entirely, legwax. The last year I didn't vaccinate, I had vet bill of €2k+ for pneumonia outbreak.
Vaccinate every year since, only the odd chill if I leave a bloody door open and the wind changes...:rolleyes: Much cheaper option and they get no setback:)

greysides

AFAIK, the virus is only likely to isolated from clear discharges early in play. Once the discharges turn white and purulent the virus is much harder/not isolated. Presumably the immune system has cleared it from the nasal area.

Trying to isolate which virus with the intent to limit the necessary vaccine use does make some sense. IBR is mainly a disease of older animals but that's far from absolute. PI3 and RSV seem to be the usual combination in vaccines with IBR being a separate vaccine. If you have IBR with one of the others well than you're stuffed, you will need to use both vaccines.

bogman_bass

if a calf is aleady coughing is a vaccine going to do much for him? Yes it will protect the others but surely the affected animal will need other treatments

greysides

The intranasal IBR vaccine was the first I know of to be touted as a treatment. Of others, I can't say.

The conventional thought behind vaccines is that they are given to healthy animals and are fully operational prior to exposure but maybe things have moved on? The adjuvants in vaccines enhance the immune response so maybe it is them that make the difference?

The Ringworm vaccine is also used to cure and prevent.

dzer2

From my limited experience of the last 3 weeks IBR doesnt effect younger calves it hammers anything over 6 months. Its P13 that younger calves get.

Our vets advice is 3mls of draxin the day they come on the 3rd day risproval for P13 abd IBR then 3 weeks later a booster shot for IBR.

We have never had too much problems with IBR until last monday I went into the shed and the coughing was terrible there was 4 bulls frothing at the mouth and all were panting called the vet when she came we injected all unfortunately 1 collapsed and died in the crush and 2 more followed the next few days. The shed is all quiet now but I an very worried that it will make a come back. Very costly introduction to IBR

delaval

There is no esy way to be introduced to IBR. In young calves where you need to do IBR intra nasal is the only effective method of administration as it is very fst acting. If it as a booster injection is fine.

vanderbadger

just to update all swaps came back virus negative!
calves are still coughing a bit althoug i think its not as bad as it was

PatQfarmer

delaval wrote: »

There is no esy way to be introduced to IBR. In young calves where you need to do IBR intra nasal is the only effective method of administration as it is very fst acting. If it as a booster injection is fine.

Update:
Main Pfizer vet in Ireland says that discussion I quoted in this forum previously with rep was incorrect.
He says that there is no point in injecting Rispoval IBR in any calf under 12 weeks of age. Intra-nasal is only way under that age.
He went on to say that if the dam is vaccinated, this immunity will carry over into the calf until at least 12 weeks in any event.
If there is a herd problem, use intra-nasal, if not, wait until 12 weeks and use i/m.

Tipp Man

PatQfarmer wrote: »

Update:
Main Pfizer vet in Ireland says that discussion I quoted in this forum previously with rep was incorrect.
He says that there is no point in injecting Rispoval IBR in any calf under 12 weeks of age. Intra-nasal is only way under that age.
He went on to say that if the dam is vaccinated, this immunity will carry over into the calf until at least 12 weeks in any event.
If there is a herd problem, use intra-nasal, if not, wait until 12 weeks and use i/m.

and the moral of the story is never ever take advice on here as gospel, a pinch of salt is more appropriate. I get the impression that some people on here think they have spent 5 or 6 or 7 years in Vetinary College but as far as i am aware only Greysides has had that pleasure

If in doubt - get the vet out - and if he's crap (because some are) change vet

Edit: not directed at you Pat of course

leg wax

Tipp Man wrote: »

and the moral of the story is never ever take advice on here as gospel, a pinch of salt is more appropriate. I get the impression that some people on here think they have spent 5 or 6 or 7 years in Vetinary College but as far as i am aware only Greysides has had that pleasure

If in doubt - get the vet out - and if he's crap (because some are) change vet

Edit: not directed at you Pat of course

tipp man who is it directed at ,as i want to know if i am doing it wrong? and i would say the person if another would like same.

vanderbadger

greysides wrote: »

The intranasal IBR vaccine was the first I know of to be touted as a treatment. Of others, I can't say.

The conventional thought behind vaccines is that they are given to healthy animals and are fully operational prior to exposure but maybe things have moved on? The adjuvants in vaccines enhance the immune response so maybe it is them that make the difference?

The Ringworm vaccine is also used to cure and prevent.

so do you think it would be worth while to vaccinate my calves anyway with something like bovipast?

Tipp Man

leg wax wrote: »

tipp man who is it directed at ,as i want to know if i am doing it wrong? and i would say the person if another would like same.

It's directed at nobody in particular - however there are a lot of people on this forum who are new and/or inexperienced when dealing with animals especially calves

There are also a lot of people who rarely particpate but read alot on here - some of which are bound to be inexperienced

The impression i get from some posts in these types of threads is that the posters are giving definitive cures on definitive illnesses without ever even seeing the animal. It can be hard enough to diagnose an animal when you are with them, nevermind an animal you have never seen or have no idea how sick they really are

My point is 2 fold
1) if you are an inexperienced farmer, only use this type of thread to get an idea of possible problems, do not take them as fact, consult your vet if in any doubt whatsoever
2) people posting should be more cautious above giving out advice about potential illnesses and potential cures. At the very least put some kind of caveat in like in my opinion or i think

Anyway - only my opinion - I rarely contribute to these type of thread anyway

greysides

Van, the thread is 13 days old and the calves must have been affected for a while beforehand so I'd be thinking things should be coming to a close. CTC, in my experience, despite being an antibiotic used in a virus-initiated problem, seems to usually result in a good improvement. Not 100% but very, very appreciable. I'm wondering why your calves haven't responded similarly.

Your vets are involved so I'd ask them what they think about the possibility of underlying factors, specifically BVD and mineral deficiencies (they will be aware of local problems). Some blood samples might be in order. In that happens, do check for IBR because the vaccine is therapeutic, and it's a separate vaccine that either you need or don't need. Assuming next years calves will face the same circumstances as this years so the information is transferable.

Vaccination, it sounds like you've an itch that needs scratching. I'm inclined to think you're too far in to consider it but what about this...... identify a reasonable proportion of them, maybe based on colour so easily picked out later, and vaccinate those. Compare results with the non-vaccinated.

For me, vaccination is more of consideration for next year.

vanderbadger

greysides wrote: »

Van, the thread is 13 days old and the calves must have been affected for a while beforehand so I'd be thinking things should be coming to a close. CTC, in my experience, despite being an antibiotic used in a virus-initiated problem, seems to usually result in a good improvement. Not 100% but very, very appreciable. I'm wondering why your calves haven't responded similarly.

Your vets are involved so I'd ask them what they think about the possibility of underlying factors, specifically BVD and mineral deficiencies (they will be aware of local problems). Some blood samples might be in order. In that happens, do check for IBR because the vaccine is therapeutic, and it's a separate vaccine that either you need or don't need. Assuming next years calves will face the same circumstances as this years so the information is transferable.

Vaccination, it sounds like you've an itch that needs scratching. I'm inclined to think you're too far in to consider it but what about this...... identify a reasonable proportion of them, maybe based on colour so easily picked out later, and vaccinate those. Compare results with the non-vaccinated.

For me, vaccination is more of consideration for next year.

Thanks. At this stage is seems to have stopped alright except for the odd one. It was going on fo r a good while before I posted..calves are bvd tested and have access to this all winter
http://www.cleanlinefarmservices.ie/products/health/easy-breather.html
Anyway case closed for now I guess

greysides

Does that lick contain Iodine?

If they are all home grown calves then it might be worth knowing if IBR is around?

PatQfarmer

Tipp Man wrote: »

and the moral of the story is never ever take advice on here as gospel, a pinch of salt is more appropriate. I get the impression that some people on here think they have spent 5 or 6 or 7 years in Vetinary College but as far as i am aware only Greysides has had that pleasure

If in doubt - get the vet out - and if he's crap (because some are) change vet

Edit: not directed at you Pat of course

I agree entirely. The original guidance to i/m with Rispoval IBR from 4 weeks was given to me by a rep, who as a "company man" should know what they are talking about!
Neighbour who had an IBR breakdown a few years ago was talking with me and said he would investigate further. Pfizer vet told him it was a waste of time and money unless 12 weeks old.
As he is vaccinating all the cows, he has no problem atm. It seems that luckily, I have no problem either, but that is not thanks to vaccinating i/m from 4 weeks and more down to luck and circumstance!
Agree these forums are great as pointers, but the vet is the one with the training and experience. Using them is generally the cheapest and best for animal welfare!

1chippy

in my opinion, for what that is worth.

I believe everyone here is trying to help. i run everything by the vet but find other peoples cures, remedies and knowledge help to give a rough grounding off which i can pop a few more questions at the vet (annoyingly to them i sometimes believe) which in response i usually learn a little bit more and hopefully help someone else out at some stage. I personally take Greysides information with high regards but even greysides needs to be kept on his toes if he is out on farm visits.
KEEP THE INFO COMING WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED THE CHANCE TO BE FOOLS OR HEROES.

greysides

1chippy wrote: »

... greysides needs to be kept on his toes..

Agreed.