Dropping gears when stopping? Right or wrong?

shreddedloops

I've had conflicting advice about using gears for slowing down to a stop.

I've been driving a year and a half and had been taught that I should be gradually dropping gears to help me slow down when coming to a stop. This actually took me a while to learn but I got it in the end.

However I decided to do some pretests recently and my instructor failed me minutes after pulling off because I did this. He said it's the 'old way' and that you should brake in the gear you're in and press the clutch as late as possible.
This way seems awfully unsafe as if I'm in 4th gear and slowing down I'd have to hit the clutch very early to stop myself cutting out.

So is there a definite way this should be done in the test?
Gradually dropping gears OR braking in the gear you were in?

Swift replies would be appreciated as my test is coming up

Alanstrainor

Your new instructor is right in some respects. Using the gears to slow down is the old way of doing things, but at the same time it is perfectly fine to do so in the test. I would probably stop in 4th also, saves the risk of messing up your gear changes when you come to a complete stop.

I think you'll be surprised just how slow the car has to go to slow in 4th year, you're talking 8km/h or there or bets, either way it's incredibly slow. I stop in fourth all the time, and never do I have to clutch in much earlier, there's a second in it tops.

Try it, see how slow you have to go to stall it, you'll be presently surprised.

ADIDriving

Almost everything Alanstrainor has said is correct. The only reason the instructor should have been marking you is if you were not changing down the gears properly. As in, you were not coming off the clutch in between.
So, either you were not changing gears properly or your instructor is marking you for faults you do not deserve.

shreddedloops

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.

Good to know there's no wrong way anyway.

Alanstrainor

shreddedloops wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.

Good to know there's no wrong way anyway.

Your instructor could have been wrong to mark you down for it, but tbh I would say taking his advice would be advisable either way.

ADIDriving

shreddedloops wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.

Good to know there's no wrong way anyway.

There are wrong way. Read my last post for an example. But there are also right wayS. Talk to the instructor who has seen exactly what you did.

Motor-Ed

shreddedloops wrote: »

However I decided to do some pretests recently and my instructor failed me minutes after pulling off because I did this. He said it's the 'old way' and that you should brake in the gear you're in and press the clutch as late as possible.
This way seems awfully unsafe as if I'm in 4th gear and slowing down I'd have to hit the clutch very early to stop myself cutting out.:)

This is the part I have difficulty with. It's not wrong if we were just doing it "the old way". If you are doing this method correctly then I don't see a good reason why your new instructor is changing your style.
I think you should discuss with them whether you are changing down correctly and if so and you are good at it then stick with it.

shreddedloops

ADIDriving wrote: »

There are wrong way. Read my last post for an example. But there are also right wayS. Talk to the instructor who has seen exactly what you did.

Oh of course, I just meant that both of the ways mentioned were acceptable if done right.

It may actually have been the case that the instructor marked me for not coming off the clutch completely that time. So I'd imagine the easier solution would be to just brake in the one gear and not have to worry about messing up the gear changes.

Thanks again for the replies.

lazygal

I passed first time last Sept. I was taught to stop in gear, apply handbreak, quick into first gear, hand on hand break ready to go and release when safe to go again. I got comments that it was old style from non instructor drivers but it worked for me and its how I drive now.

stevenmu

shreddedloops wrote: »

Oh of course, I just meant that both of the ways mentioned were acceptable if done right.

Both ways are acceptable, but with your instructors way way it's much harder to go wrong.

With your current way it's very easy to find yourself trying to shift down to 3rd or 2nd, but finding that you're already going to slow, so you have to shift even lower before you have engaged the gear you were originally aiming for. Even if this doesn't happen to you now, it's more likely to happen in the pressure of the test.

I'd suggest though that this applies only to your actual stopping manoeuvre, i.e. when you decide "I need to stop right now". When you are anticipating stopping, i.e. when you are coming up to a red light or queue of traffic but it is still some distance away, then it makes more sense to slow and down shift as you approach, and your actual stopping manoeuvre will be from 2nd gear and low speed.

So in short, to actually come to a stop it's best to brake in gear, keep braking until you come to a complete stop and clutch in when needed, but when you have time and distance to prepare to stop, you then slow down and down shift.

Wishbone Ash

Alanstrainor wrote: »

you'll be surprised just how slow the car has to go to slow in 4th year, you're talking 8km/h or there

When in 4th my car begins to splutter at 32km/h.

cantwellsam

I was told on my pretest that if I was coming to a red light in 4th, to pop it into third, then do the clutch brake thing. It's acceptable to do it in any gear, but if I have time, dropping down as far as 3rd is preferable.

ADIDriving

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

When in 4th my car begins to splutter at 32km/h.

A car might struggle to accelerate in 4th at 32, but that should not be happening if you're just slowing.

Ded_Zebra

cantwellsam wrote: »

I was told on my pretest that if I was coming to a red light in 4th, to pop it into third, then do the clutch brake thing. It's acceptable to do it in any gear, but if I have time, dropping down as far as 3rd is preferable.

This what I was taught too and is what I normally do.

ADIDriving wrote: »

A car might struggle to accelerate in 4th at 32, but that should not be happening if you're just slowing.

Not that uncommon in a Diesel for the RPM to be below idle at that speed. Our Insignia would be at idle RPM at about 30km/h.

Alanstrainor

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

When in 4th my car begins to splutter at 32km/h.

What car is it?

In all honesty, my statement may have been just a tad broad:p

But it was more to illustrate the point that clutching in when coming to a stop in 4th gear is not something that has to happen a large distance away from a junction. I'd encourage anyone who doesn't do it, to give it a shot on a quiet road or car park where you're not going to disturb anyone if you do stall the car.

Wishbone Ash

Alanstrainor wrote: »

What car is it?

In all honesty, my statement may have been just a tad broad:p

But it was more to illustrate the point that clutching in when coming to a stop in 4th gear is not something that has to happen a large distance away from a junction. I'd encourage anyone who doesn't do it, to give it a shot on a quiet road or car park where you're not going to disturb anyone if you do stall the car.

It's an e60 520 - 6 speed diesel. At 32km/h the revs would be at about 800 pm.

TimeToShine

I was taught to block change from 4th to 2nd when approaching a traffic light or have to stop. So if i'm going 45km/h in 4th i'll brake gently to about 15km/h and drop into second, release clutch and keep braking, and then clutch before i come to a stop.

J_R

TimeToShine wrote: »

I was taught to block change from 4th to 2nd when approaching a traffic light or have to stop. So if i'm going 45km/h in 4th i'll brake gently to about 15km/h and drop into second, release clutch and keep braking, and then clutch before i come to a stop.

As others have posted, either way is acceptable - if done correctly. However not changing down is far more eco-friendly.

Next time before changing down, check your rev counter, then check when in 2nd gear. The faster the revs the more wear and tear on the engine.

Not changing down also saves fuel.

A clutch has a finite number of gear changes. Decrease the number of changes, clutch will last longer.

But main problem with changing down, after a while people get lazy. As they know they will be again using the clutch very shortly they do not remove their foot but continue "riding" it with the very real possibility of not releasing it fully.

And not changing down, means you can concentrate more on observation.

MrScootch

J_R wrote: »

Not changing down also saves fuel.

But fuel is only going in if you're pressing the accelerator, it's just forward motion spinning the engine, i.e. wheels are now turning the engine, not the other way around.

Why is it "the old way"?

I was always taught 'down into third, brakes with a bit of engine braking, then on the clutch'.
More in control plus less wear and tear on brake discs/pads/tyres.
I was always taught you have more control if you're in a gear matched to your speed.

J_R

MrScootch wrote: »

But fuel is only going in if you're pressing the accelerator, it's just forward motion spinning the engine, i.e. wheels are now turning the engine, not the other way around.

What is turning the engine when the clutch is depressed whilst changing gears ?

Why is it "the old way"?

It is the called the "Old way" because that was the correct way to slow down long long ago (in the olden times):-
When cars were much heavier and brakes were not as efficient you therefore needed the braking power of the engine to assist in slowing/stopping.

I was always taught 'down into third, brakes with a bit of engine braking, then on the clutch'.
More in control plus less wear and tear on brake discs/pads/tyres.

When you are stopping in a high gear without changing down:-
the engine revs are lower therefore less wear and tear on the engine.
You have not used the clutch to change gear, therefore less wear and tear
on the cluch.
The only thing you are wearing are the brake pads and these are the cheapest to renew and replace.

I was always taught you have more control if you're in a gear matched to your speed.

Do not agree. You can not be in the correct gear at all times to deal with every possible emergency. But it only takes a split second to select the correct gear.

John

MrScootch

When your foot is off the accelerator the engine is idling with only a trickle of fuel going in. This is the same amount of fuel whether you're sitting at the lights with the engine turning over, or using engine braking at 2-3k rpm.

Mk1 VW Golf - 790 Kg
Mk7 VW Golf - 1050 Kg

I would say that most modern cars are quite a bit heavier but thankfully they are more efficient and don't crumple up like tin cans.

I respectfully disagree with you about wear and tear on the engine. The engine is designed to spin, moderate revs are not going to hurt it one bit. With proper lubrication and maintenance the basic components of a modern engine will outlive most other parts of the vehicle.

Ah, but the Emergency Stop is a different manoeuvre.


To me using some engine braking feels smoother and more controlled anyway.

J_R

Hi,

My understanding is than in modern car when you take your foot off the gas pedal the fuel pump no longer delivers any fuel whatsoever to the engine.

(Easily checked in a car which displays fuel consumption)

Golf MK1 was
Length 3705
Width 1610
Height 1395

MK7
Length 4255
Width 1799
Height 1452

Different beast completely, only the name is the same.

But you should give stopping without changing an honest try, you might get to like it.