Renato Canova training - when to apply V02 max workouts

joepike

I've been trying to apply Canova to my training for the Boston
marathon 2013. After reading his articles, I I’ve gathered that it is
worked in the special period mostly, And the paces in the
fundamental period don’t get faster than 110% of mp.
I've also read that speed is improved upon first so it isn't
a factor later on in the training. Does anyone have a clear
understanding of when to work on speed using a Canova
based training system ?

ecoli

joepike wrote: »

I've been trying to apply Canova to my training for the Boston
marathon 2013. After reading his articles, I I’ve gathered that it is
worked in the special period mostly, And the paces in the
fundamental period don’t get faster than 110% of mp.
I've also read that speed is improved upon first so it isn't
a factor later on in the training. Does anyone have a clear
understanding of when to work on speed using a Canova
based training system ?

Here is a thread from a while ago that would be a good starting point for you;

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056452125

You are on the right track in terms the basic idea that quicker paced stuff is normally in the fundamental phase of training and as the plan progresses the aim is to increase the volume while maintaining the pace. You dont in a traditional sense work on speed within the plan you equip your body to sustain paces for longer.

Remember that many of the athletes that Canova trains are coming from a high aerobic base built upon years of high mileage training as such you want to be going into this sort of work already running fairly high mileage for a good while not one I would recommend people to jump into as a plan for their first marathon

There is a book which you can get from the IAAF (around $6) which is a good starting point in truly understanding the background to his approach (He admits himself though the approach has slightly changed since its publication)

Stazza

Prior to getting into the specific/special phase he suggests that mortals try something like this:
First 3 weeks : starting from 6 circuits, then 8, then 10.

Circuit :

* 100m fast (flat course)
* 50m skipping (flat)
* 100m fast (uphill)
* 50m bounding (uphill)
* 100m fast (uphill)
* 50m heels to buttocks (uphill)
* 200m fast (uphill)
* 10 squat-jumps on the place
* 350m going down (downhill)

We use about 1 km, mixed, for the circuit. The gradient is between 8 and 10 %. Every test must be done at 90% of the max. effort, and there is continuity between tests and exercises. This circuit last about 4:30 / 5:00, depending on the gradient of the hill. Recovery is jogging coming back, so at the moment the total duration is about 50 min.

Next 3 weeks :

We use the same circuits (10 times), but we go to qualify the speed of recovery, that during last week is at fast speed. For example, if during the first period the average for every circuit is 4:30, at the end of the 6th week becomes 3:45 / 3:55.

Last 2 weeks :

We use 10 circuits, increasing the distance of every test to 150m, and the last to 300m. In this way, the distance of every circuit goes to 1,250m about, and the final total distance becomes 12.5 km instead 10.

During this period, the athlete has in his program one long run per week, increasing duration (from 2 hr to 2 hr 40 min, with the last 30 min fast), and one session for increasing Aerobic Power (intervals of 800m / 1000m / 1200m / 1500m / 2000m at a speed of 5-8% faster than Marathon Pace, recovery half distance of the test run at 80% of Marathon Pace, for a global volume of 20-25 km). All the other sessions are at moderate speed, with a volume of about 20 miles per day.

He also suggests that you do a cheeky little session of hill blasts once a week - 8x8 secs with full recovery (2 mins)

I'd suggest that you don't do 20 miles per day on easy days:) But it's up to you...

joepike

thanks very much!
So most of the V02 max stuff in the fundamental period on done doing hill work since the Aerobic
power work is only @ 5-8% of mp ? correct

Stazza

If you like, I'll message you how to do it the right way using Canovas methods. The true VO2 max stuff comes before circuits etc. If you're going to do it properly, you'll need 18 months. I think itmakes total sense and is the best way to approach the marathon rather than 12 week plans from Runners World etc...

joepike

that would be so helpful of you... so basically the true V02 max stuff happens in advance of starting any of his training phases ??? I'm training for Boston and I had 24 weeks in which to train. In the last 10 weeks (Fundamental Phase) I've done quite a bit of speed work (V02 max) now because I live in Canada and my assumtion was that the speed stuff occured in the special phase which is happening now, and since we are now in Winter, I worked hard on speed before the snow and Ice came in the fundamental phase along with some traditional fundamental workouts like progression runs, alternating tempo, regular tempo, Hill sprints (2 * week which I plan to keep doing throughout the training). For the next 5-6 weeks I'm giong to enter the special phase, and I'm not sure what type of runs to do except extending the volumne and reducing the speed of the V02 workouts to LT pace. I have a good grasp of the specific
phase and how the transition to it from the special phase occurs. Maybe you could look at my current training, and let me know if it's ok. It's in a spreadsheet format

joepike

Yes I'd like to know how to apply it a best as possible given that someone like me is using the program and has 18-24 weeks in which to train

Stazza

I'll message you the specific workouts - watch you don't overdo it. Remember, what you're trying to do is to funnel your training paces into marathon pace and get the right mix of burning glycogen and fats at mp.

If you do VO2 max stuff in the specific stage, you are training the body to burn glycogen - not good. You'll probably blow up at the 22 mile mark -as most people do who opt for the old 5k race a couple of weeks before a marathon.

Send over what you're planning to do in the specific phase and I'll have a look...

Let me know when your next marathon is (plus, Predicted MP) and what you've been doing training wise and I'll bang some stuff over to you to have a look at.

joepike

You definitely know your stuff! So V02 should be done before the traditional Canova phase begin ?? correct ?? or in the "special phase" too (before specific) ?? I'm just trying to get my head around when exactly to do the V02 max stuff.
I'll will send you some workouts I'm planning on doing.
Boston 2013... I just ran a 1/2 in 1:16:44 but was -24 degrees.

maybe 3 * 4 miles (mp) & extend
6 * 2 miles (mp) & extend

some special block every 3-4 weeks

15 mile mp (97%) 5-6 weeks out

Stazza

I've fired some stuff over to you. I'd skip the special block this time around and work through the sessions I've sent you. When you're running about 1:07/8 for the half and managing 110-120 mpw with ease, then we'll talk special blocks. There's no need at this stage to try and do everything - you'll get injured or burn-out. Keep it simple. Keep building.