ethernet cat5 connection problem.

inc21

Hi.
I'm trying to get Samsung 8000 series smart tv connected to broadband.
Problem is that the TV is quite far away from the router so wireless is not an option. It is connected with 25-30 metre cat5 cable witch do not play well with tv's for some reason.

Things I have tried so far

• Changed old eircom modem/router to new O2 home phone router. No help
  
• tried various laptops on this cable in question. All worked perfect
  
• Got magnifier and checked all 8 cables on both ends of the cable. All fine. All lights on this little thing flash up on the correct times. Cable colours are not in the same order as on official guides tho, but I can't see it making any difference once they are not crossed. so what we have. green to green, blue to blue and so on.
  
• Got another Samsung smart TV (7000 series) and this did not connect with that cable either. Went up to the router plugged in with 2 metre cable and up she came no probs.
  
• got a Belkin wireless router (just router not with the modem) and plugged it in where TV should go hoping that this will give us wireless. No good
  
• shared my 3G connection on iPhone. TV picked it up and connected to it not a bother.

Cable is through walls and ceilings and replacing this is not easy (and cheap) thing to try. Fitter that did that cable is saying that the cable is ok and that it is not his problem. TV is ok and tested, router is ok and tested.

Maybe you guys have come across this before, I certainly have not and it's wrecking my head.

Any help and suggestions much appreciated and sorry for the long post.

hearny

What about Powerline adapters:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004INVKP4/

whats the cable quality and crimping quality like.

inc21

hearny wrote: »

What about Powerline adapters:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004INVKP4/

whats the cable quality and crimping quality like.

Wow that was fast.
and what a great idea. I will try that tomorrow. Thank you

Will report back here witch ever way it goes.

cable average cat5 that you have on roll and crimping looks good.

hearny

You seem to have access to alot of electronics from the sounds of it, if you are going to try the powerline adapters tomorrow.

I would recrimp with the correct colours as seen here:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.elrcastor.com/images/rj45_connector.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.elrcastor.com/rj45.html&h=326&w=233&sz=9&tbnid=GGESmjtCv7SPDM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=64&zoom=1&usg=__fqc7NErvl4LIH0phK5b7VYj0nvs=&docid=lQQoQMBCu9_H2M&sa=X&ei=T8XsUIDTDMmRhQeZp4GYAg&ved=0CEoQ9QEwAw&dur=543

That is with the hook facing down to the floor.

Xantia

Yes recrimp and retest those cables.
No reason why it should not work - the TV should have DHCP turned on and the Router should give it an IP address

inc21

hearny wrote: »

You seem to have access to alot of electronics from the sounds of it, if you are going to try the powerline adapters tomorrow.

I would recrimp with the correct colours as seen here:

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.elrcastor.com/images/rj45_connector.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.elrcastor.com/rj45.html&h=326&w=233&sz=9&tbnid=GGESmjtCv7SPDM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=64&zoom=1&usg=__fqc7NErvl4LIH0phK5b7VYj0nvs=&docid=lQQoQMBCu9_H2M&sa=X&ei=T8XsUIDTDMmRhQeZp4GYAg&ved=0CEoQ9QEwAw&dur=543

That is with the hook facing down to the floor.

I should point out that I do work in expert and we have powerline things in the shop.

Do you guys think that the order of the colours make difference so?
It all looks like the same copper wire to me, whatever colour on the shield around it.

hearny

I thought you must be working in an electronics shop alright.

Definitely recrimp, shorter distances would be fine but over longer distances its best to stick to the diagram, the wires are twisted pairs which helps reduce interference and crosstalk.

inc21

hearny wrote: »

What about Powerline adapters:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004INVKP4/

whats the cable quality and crimping quality like.

Tried this powerline thing and it works. Signal quality with them is quite poor for video playback over broadband though.
It might be down to esb wiring. TV is in the bar and router is in the apartment above. Distance is not long but what I have been told these two are on separate phases, if that makes any sense.

Next thing to try is to re-crimp to right order. Will try that tomorrow if I GET a chance.
Thank you and keep the suggestions coming.

whizbang

Is it shielded cable by any chance ??

inc21

whizbang wrote: »

Is it shielded cable by any chance ??

Like this one

whizbang

No, worth a shot tho..

Good luck with the recrimping. if no good then looks more like there's a bad bit of cable somewhere along the line. probably a cable clip thro it!

whizbang

Just remembered, problem i had before, are the ends of the fixed cable going to faceplates, patch panel, etc, or is the RJ45 crimped directly to the wire ?

inc21

whizbang wrote: »

No, worth a shot tho..

Good luck with the recrimping. if no good then looks more like there's a bad bit of cable somewhere along the line. probably a cable clip thro it!

Is that shielded one?

What throws me off is that laptops work and tester shows that all is good. I'm reading here that cat5 should do around 100m or so, that cable is only about 25m if not less.

inc21

whizbang wrote: »

Just remembered, problem i had before, are the ends of the fixed cable going to faceplates, patch panel, etc, or is the RJ45 crimped directly to the wire ?

direct at both ends

whizbang

Yeah, that last on is shielded. DO NOT connect BOTH ends of shielding to earth/ground/etc. ONE end only.

inc21

whizbang wrote: »

Yeah, that last on is shielded. DO NOT connect BOTH ends of shielding to earth/ground/etc. ONE end only.

it is prob cheapest cat5 he could get I imagine and does not seem to have any shielding so it should not be an issue. My crimping skills likely are though

I have done few at home and will not rest until I get it right

whizbang

Those RJ45 ends are supposed to be fitted only to flexible stranded wire, they dont make a reliable connection to solid conductor installation wiring.

I have seen problems where these were intermittant. solved by fitting faceplates, and patch cords.

inc21

whizbang wrote: »

Those RJ45 ends are supposed to be fitted only to flexible stranded wire, they dont make a reliable connection to solid conductor installation wiring.

I have seen problems where these were intermittant. solved by fitting faceplates, and patch cords.

Good to know.
First crimp then that will be my next step

Alun

inc21 wrote: »

Do you guys think that the order of the colours make difference so?
It all looks like the same copper wire to me, whatever colour on the shield around it.

It's not so much the colour of the wires, but the way the pairs are organised. It's vitally important that the pairs are on pins 1&2, 3&6, 4&5 and 7&8 ... note the fact that there is a pair connected to the middle two pins, and another pair straddling that pair. This is the way the ethernet jacks on ethernet adapters and switches/routers etc. are wired, so you have to maintain that through the cabling.

So, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568#Wiring and recrimp both ends follow the T586B wiring.

Note that cables that are wired straight through, i.e pairs on 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 and 7&8 will sometimes work, at least sporadically, especially if they're relatively short but then fail in mysterious and confusing ways.

Also that tester isn't worth the plastic it's made out of, as the only thing it's testing is DC connectivity, not whether a 100MHz or 1GHz signal can travel along it successfully.

inc21

Alun wrote: »

It's not so much the colour of the wires, but the way the pairs are organised. It's vitally important that the pairs are on pins 1&2, 3&6, 4&5 and 7&8 ... note the fact that there is a pair connected to the middle two pins, and another pair straddling that pair. This is the way the ethernet jacks on ethernet adapters and switches/routers etc. are wired, so you have to maintain that through the cabling.

So, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA/EIA-568#Wiring and recrimp both ends follow the T586B wiring.

Note that cables that are wired straight through, i.e pairs on 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 and 7&8 will sometimes work, at least sporadically, especially if they're relatively short but then fail in mysterious and confusing ways.

Also that tester isn't worth the plastic it's made out of, as the only thing it's testing is DC connectivity, not whether a 100MHz or 1GHz signal can travel along it successfully.

Thanks for that. Your post gives me more hope that recrimp might work.

About the tester though. It was €16 in maplin and has performed well for the money I paid. I tested known bad cable and it told me where the fault is. Know good one worked as well. Not doing it to often to justify expensive one that measures all that.

inc21

Well got my act together today and went to recrimp this thing.
One side upstairs went well, where there was plenty light and room to work.
Other side in the pub though was not so easy. Lack of light, room and experience is to blame. After crimping it second time
everything worked beautifully. Can't believe such a small thing like order of the colours will make a difference.

So people crimping one in future, for god's sake do it right at the beginning!

Thank you all for helpful suggestions. Could not have done it without your help!

Alun

inc21 wrote: »

Can't believe such a small thing like order of the colours will make a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair#Explanation

It's all down to cancellation of external noise picked up in the cabling.

inc21

Alun wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair#Explanation

It's all down to cancellation of external noise picked up in the cabling.

I know now that it makes a difference, but it was hard for inexperienced mind to figure this out. And this cable was fitted by professional who claimed that cable was ok and TV was faulty.