Have RTE libeled Alan Shatter

Curly Judge

On Today at PK
Friday 4th Jan 2103
Approx 1.38.00 into show.
http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradiowebpage.html#!rii=9%3A10098830%3A133%3A04%2D01%2D2013%3A

Myles Dungan Refers to Alan Shatter as a Gobshyte.
Whatever your feelings about Minister Shatter, is this the behaviour we should expect from the national broadcaster?

neris

wouldnt say thats libel really. courts be full of people taking cases coz someone called them a gob****e if it was.

Custardpi

Gobshyte is just general abuse & a subjective judgement, it's not making a specific claim about his behaviour/actions that could potentially be proved true/false, so doesn't come under defamation. If they had said (or even implied) that he was a gobshyte who had committed fraud/adultery/murder, etc then that would be a specific allegation & would be actionable.

Jason Todd

Doesn't seem libelous to me, just unprofessional.

daveyeh

Myles was raised a catholic and is a convert to the Church of Ireland. He now has diplomatic immunity for gob****e related libels.

P. Breathnach

Curly Judge wrote: »

...
Myles Dungan Refers to Alan Shatter as a Gobshyte.
...

No, he does not.

Dodge

For it to be libelous, it has to be untrue

Curly Judge

P. Breathnach wrote: »

No, he does not.

And your interpretation of the conversation between him and his interviewee is........?

Custardpi

Dodge wrote: »

For it to be libelous, it has to be untrue

Actually, I don't think that necessarily the case (remembering from law module many moons ago so bit rusty), it's more that it's something that hasn't been established as fact & for which the alleged defamer can produce no/insufficient evidence. The alleged injured party is not obliged to demonstrate the allegation is false, the burden of proof would be on the other party to prove that it's true & thus have a valid defense against libel. Failure to do so could still mean that the claim was in fact correct, but that a court was not convinced enough by the evidence presented & so would rule in favour of the plaintiff.

P. Breathnach

Curly Judge wrote: »

And your interpretation of the conversation between him and his interviewee is........?

That he neither said nor implied that Shatter is a gobshite.

Dodge

Custardpi wrote: »

Actually, I don't think that necessarily the case (remembering from law module many moons ago so bit rusty), it's more that it's something that hasn't been established as fact & for which the alleged defamer can produce no/insufficient evidence. The alleged injured party is not obliged to demonstrate the allegation is false, the burden of proof would be on the other party to prove that it's true & thus have a valid defense against libel. Failure to do so could still mean that the claim was in fact correct, but that a court was not convinced enough by the evidence presented & so would rule in favour of the plaintiff.

Well, yeah it clearly isn't as simple as my one line joke, and involves such rubbish as the cncept of the right minded citizen (it may have changed since my law classes too)

Just making a funny though

Skid

Curly Judge wrote: »

On Today at PK
Friday 4th Jan 2103
Approx 1.38.00 into show.
http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradiowebpage.html#!rii=9%3A10098830%3A133%3A04%2D01%2D2013%3A

Myles Dungan Refers to Alan Shatter as a Gobshyte.
Whatever your feelings about Minister Shatter, is this the behaviour we should expect from the national broadcaster?

Completely untrue.

Curly Judge

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That he neither said nor implied that Shatter is a gobshite.

Dungan: "You were particularly not crazy about the performance of Alan Shatter, and you gave him an award which I am probably not allowed to read out on radio?"
Drennan: "Yes, it rhymes with delight!" {snigger]
Dungan: It starts with g and ends with e" [snigger]

Over to you...?

mike65

That's it?

Jim Glennon flying high again.

Lenin Skynard

Curly Judge wrote: »

Dungan: "You were particularly not crazy about the performance of Alan Shatter, and you gave him an award which I am probably not allowed to read out on radio?"
Glennon: "Yes, it rhymes with delight!" {snigger]
Dungan: It starts with g and ends with e" [snigger]

Over to you...?

He referred to someone else referring to Shatter. By your logic, Brian Dobson has libeled practically every single member of the Dail in the course of his news reports.

Skid

Curly Judge wrote: »

Dungan: "You were particularly not crazy about the performance of Alan Shatter, and you gave him an award which I am probably not allowed to read out on radio?"
Glennon: "Yes, it rhymes with delight!" {snigger]
Dungan: It starts with g and ends with e" [snigger]

Not even remotely close to what you claimed.

Curly Judge wrote: »

Myles Dungan Refers to Alan Shatter as a Gobshyte.

Myles Dungan was referring to an article by John Drennan. And he didn't use vulgar language. He was about a million miles away from slander.

You are closer to defaming Myles Dungan with this thread than he was to defaming Alan Shatter.

And to round off your inaccuracies it was John Drennan, not Jim Glennon

Curly Judge

Skid wrote: »

Not even remotely close to what you claimed.



Myles Dungan was referring to an article by John Drennan. And he didn't use vulgar language. He was about a million miles away from slander.

You are closer to defaming Myles Dungan with this thread than he was to defaming Alan Shatter.

And to round off your inaccuracies it was John Drennan, not Jim Glennon

Yeah I got it wrong about Drennan. Hand up! I've edited the OP.

If Mr. Dungan decides to sue me, I'll just have to defend myself as best I can.

I just think it was terribly unprofessional performance and more like what you might hear from George Hooke in a bad humour.

Skid

Curly Judge wrote: »

Yeah I got it wrong about Drennan. Hand up! I've edited the OP.

If Mr. Dungan decides to sue me, I'll just have to defend myself as best I can.

I just think it was terribly unprofessional performance and more like what you might here from George Hooke in a bad humour.

I was a bit over the top with that reference to defaming Myles Dungan, to be fair.

Here is the article by John Drennan to which they were referring

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/john-drennan-political-winners-and-losers-in-a-year-of-indifference-3338702.html?utm_term=Faith+in+the+Media&utm_content=Hour+Faith&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=FMA

He uses the term gobs**te more than once (and apparently does so every year). It is a rather crude term for a mainstream Journalist to use. If Alan Shatter is unhappy it would be Drennan and The Irish Independent he would have issue with, rather than Dungan and RTÉ.

Curly Judge

Skid wrote: »

I was a bit over the top with that reference to defaming Myles Dungan, to be fair.

Here is the article by John Drennan to which they were referring

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/john-drennan-political-winners-and-losers-in-a-year-of-indifference-3338702.html?utm_term=Faith+in+the+Media&utm_content=Hour+Faith&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=FMA

He uses the term gobs**te more than once (and apparently does so every year). It is a rather crude term for a mainstream Journalist to use. If Alan Shatter is unhappy it would be Drennan and The Irish Independent he would have issue with, rather than Dungan and RTÉ.

Alan Shatter is a big boy [politically and financially speaking]:)
and head of a very successful law firm.
He can take care of himself and hardly needs advice from me. I'ts just that I expected better from RTE and their operatives.
In the remote chance that he does sue I don't think RTE can stand behind the "I was only quoting what he said, your honor" defence.

P. Breathnach

I think it would be just as easy for Shatter to sue Curly_Judge as to sue RTÉ or Myles Dungan - fortunately for Curly, with about the same prospect of success.

If Dungan decided to go after Curly for defamation, he might have a slightly better chance.

Curly Judge

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think it would be just as easy for Shatter to sue Curly_Judge as to sue RTÉ or Myles Dungan - fortunately for Curly, with about the same prospect of success.

If Dungan decided to go after Curly for defamation, he might have a slightly better chance.

Jeepers! You've got me really worried now.
I will have to use the old "public interest" defence.:eek:

P. Breathnach

Curly Judge wrote: »

Jeepers! You've got me really worried now.
I will have to use the old "public interest" defence.:eek:

A better choice than the "true in substance and in fact" defence.

mike65

Drennan is a gob****e of the highest order

popebenny16

at the most it is vulgar abuse, which has been long held by the courts to be not defamation.