Crazy family Law System

snor

Hi guys
Just really want to rant!!!!

I am going through a Judicial Separation and have had two dates for court.
Date 1: we were 3rd on the list were told pretty early in the day that the case would not be heard as 'the courts were too busy'. Myself, Solicitor, Barrister sent home.

Barrsiter met with County registrar a week later and got a second date - 6 months down the line.

Date 2:We were 'with priority' which my solicitor informed me was first on the list - happy days should finally go ahead. No - case carrying over from the day before so no hope again and in to get a new date .

Between all the paperwork, ex-h being non cooperative etc we are now almost 4 years down the line.

Worse still for me, for every court 'appearence' that does not go ahead I have to pay solicitor, barrister, psychologist (section 47) and social worker (although only had to pay the latter two's 'on-call fee - €250 each for the first court case that was cancelled). Also, have to update paperwork, get affadavits by another solicitor, get supporting documents etc for each case - all solicitors fees.

If only my ex had ageed to mediation, settlement talks - anything!! I do not qualify for legal aid as I am just above the threshhold. I get no maintenance for the children from my ex.

I am totally broke from the whole legal system and not yet even separated. I have had to borrow so much money from my family and don't know how I will ever be able to pay them back. How do I know the case will go aahead the next time?

Totally fed up with the whole system (as is my solicitor) and think it is all a money racket (Don't get me wrong, I am happy to fairly pay the professional's whose expertise I require) but I feel the whole family law system is a total sham. :mad:

Rant over -feel a bit better now. Thanks for reading!

Corkbah

the entire legal system in Ireland is a money racket as far as I'm concerned.

go into the district court and all you will hear is solicitors asking for adjournments ... they get €40ish per appearance (so I'm told)

the judges allow it because they know exactly what to say (need to consult client, new information, can we push the matter back for a medical report or community service report or report from someone else ...its a joke)

As for the Free legal aid system that we have .... it simply doesn't deter criminals from re-offending, if money was taken from their social welfare payments for every appearance "the clients" would quickly stop adjournments and plead guilty at an earlier opportunity.... I'm not saying abolish it but make it subsidised legal aid - why should the state/taxpayer foot the bill if you are not obiding by the rules/laws of the state.

there would be a lot less crime if criminals were actually punished.

As regards your own issue - its very common to have multiple adjournments like you have had - but as it was in the list I would have thought you would simply have to wait until the cases above yours were finished ...maybe a day or two tops !!...seems strange that the matter was put back into the list - unless not all the information was available to the solicitor and he/she applied for the adjournment and it was not the court that pushed it back...but the solicitor !!

snor

All information and relevant 3rd parties were present at the court on the day and no adjournment was requested. We were told that the courts were very busy, and would not get to our case on the day and that we would have to go back in the following week to have our case put back on the list - riduculous system! Maybe if the state rather than the client had to pay for the legal representation when cases do not go ahead like this it would be a fairer system.

Procrastastudy

Corkbah wrote: »

the entire legal system in Ireland is a money racket as far as I'm concerned.

go into the district court and all you will hear is solicitors asking for adjournments ... they get €40ish per appearance (so I'm told)

the judges allow it because they know exactly what to say (need to consult client, new information, can we push the matter back for a medical report or community service report or report from someone else ...its a joke)

As for the Free legal aid system that we have .... it simply doesn't deter criminals from re-offending, if money was taken from their social welfare payments for every appearance "the clients" would quickly stop adjournments and plead guilty at an earlier opportunity.... I'm not saying abolish it but make it subsidised legal aid - why should the state/taxpayer foot the bill if you are not obiding by the rules/laws of the state.

there would be a lot less crime if criminals were actually punished.

As regards your own issue - its very common to have multiple adjournments like you have had - but as it was in the list I would have thought you would simply have to wait until the cases above yours were finished ...maybe a day or two tops !!...seems strange that the matter was put back into the list - unless not all the information was available to the solicitor and he/she applied for the adjournment and it was not the court that pushed it back...but the solicitor !!

The legal system in Ireland costs the taxpayer almost nothing. We have the lowest costing legal system in the World per capita outside of the odd place that doesn't have one or that uses goat entrails to decide the verdict. Why should people that don't need to avail of the civil legal system pay for it?

As for the Criminal system every single person that goes through it is innocent until proven guilty. I for one do not want to see the US system of the bottom of the pile public defenders* and plea bargains entered into because it's cheaper to do six months than pay for a lawyer. Criminals being punished lets not start that old chestnut - resurrect one of the bazillion threads (at least one a month) that gets started.

As for the scheduling - yes that could do with some improvement. I'm not exactly sure what can be done though that doesn't increase costs to the tax payer. I'd be very interested to hear the sensible solutions though.

*No offence intended to the dedicated men and women that work in that system - the comment was directed at the lack of funding and resources.

NoQuarter

Corkbah wrote: »

the entire legal system in Ireland is a money racket as far as I'm concerned.

go into the district court and all you will hear is solicitors asking for adjournments ... they get €40ish per appearance (so I'm told)

the judges allow it because they know exactly what to say (need to consult client, new information, can we push the matter back for a medical report or community service report or report from someone else ...its a joke)

God forbid we should push a case back becaue there is no medical report available (which can make or break a case) or to get a community service report (which could keep someone out of prison for a minor offence who really doesnt need to be there) for the sake of a €40 appearance fee (or so you were told).

Proof that people armed with 1/10 of the full picture is a dangerous thing! I hate using the roll-eyes thing but.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

CIARAN_BOYLE

Procrastastudy wrote: »

As for the Criminal system every single person that goes through it is innocent until proven guilty. I for one do not want to see the US system of the bottom of the pile public defenders* and plea bargains entered into because it's cheaper to do six months than pay for a lawyer. Criminals being punished lets not start that old chestnut - resurrect one of the bazillion threads (at least one a month) that gets started.

I agree here however once found guilty you should be liable for any free legal aid that you received during your defence

ResearchWill

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I agree here however once found guilty you should be liable for any free legal aid that you received during your defence

That would not be legal aid, it would be a fine. Either we agree that when a person accused of a crime does not have the income to pay for legal advice, is given legal aid or not.

The total cost of criminal legal aid is about €56 million a year, it's also dropping. If we get rid of it fine 56 million saving but ask what do we give up. If you are happy to allow the state prosecute anyone they wish with most people not being able to afford a defense.

Civil Legal Aid costs are about 30 million a year. BTW criminal legal aid no waiting lists civil legal aid at least 6 months waiting list.

BTW the grant for the Arts Council is 60 million this year, not making a comment on the Arts but puting legal aid funding in perspective.

Pat Mustard

Corkbah wrote: »

go into the district court and all you will hear is solicitors asking for adjournments ... they get €40ish per appearance (so I'm told)

The District Court is not a cash cow, except for the criminal law practitioners who are doing a volume of cases every day. €40 for an adjournment: even if this were true, that's not a morning well spent for any business.

Corkbah wrote: »

the judges allow it because they know exactly what to say (need to consult client, new information, can we push the matter back for a medical report or community service report or report from someone else ...its a joke)

If someone cannot go on with their case because a vital piece of evidence (such as a medical report) is not to hand, then you think it's a joke that the judge adjourns the matter. That's nonsense.

Corkbah wrote: »

As for the Free legal aid system that we have .... it simply doesn't deter criminals from re-offending, if money was taken from their social welfare payments for every appearance "the clients" would quickly stop adjournments and plead guilty at an earlier opportunity.... I'm not saying abolish it but make it subsidised legal aid - why should the state/taxpayer foot the bill if you are not obiding by the rules/laws of the state.

Free legal aid is about allowing people the right to a fair trial. You are confusing the right to a fair trial with deterring crime. They are separate issues.

If you had any contact with the type of people who are regular criminal legal aid clients, you would realise that they are not the world's foremost forward planners. If legal aid was abolished, these people would not suddenly decide to become model citizens.

Corkbah wrote: »

As regards your own issue - its very common to have multiple adjournments like you have had - but as it was in the list I would have thought you would simply have to wait until the cases above yours were finished ...maybe a day or two tops !!...seems strange that the matter was put back into the list - unless not all the information was available to the solicitor and he/she applied for the adjournment and it was not the court that pushed it back...but the solicitor !!

Solicitors do not have the power to adjourn court sittings. They may apply for adjournments on behalf of their clients, but it is the judge who grants those adjournments. You also have to remember that the other side are free to consent or object to the application. Generally, Judges aren't fools either, you know.

valleyoftheunos

Courts handle different types of cases on different days which is why they have to be put back by a week or two instead of simply running to the next day. The scheduling is further complicated because the Court has very little idea of how long it will take to hear a case when it comes before the court for the first time, it might be 15 minutes or it could be hours, similarly it might be urgent or not urgent.

Finally the amount of work involved in an appearance in court for everyone involved is massive, for both sides and indeed the Judge. no party will want to adjourn a hearing unless necessary, its a waste of time and resources and judges absolutely hate it because it clogs their lists.