Photo Agency

Gortan60

Ok, very general question here. Does anyone have any idea as to what procedure is involved in setting up a photo agency in Ireland? Primarily dealing with sports events.

Any thoughts/tips/help/guidance/idiotic replies welcome!

Thanks in advance

Corkbah

anyone can create a photographic agency - just need staff and organisation...however don't expect to be allowed permission to events simply because you create a photo agency.

you need to effectively build your brand ...its a vicious circle... you need to get access and get printed to get the name recognised ...but in order to get access you need to get the name recognised !!

creating an agency is easy ...but you have to ensure all photographers get paid - even if the agency does not earn money.

dazftw

To put things in perspective.. Magnum, probably one of the most famous photo agencies in the world had financial difficulties for years in paying their photographers.

I know there's a photographer or two on here that run their own. I won't mention names but if they want to give out some advice I'm sure they'll post.

Gortan60

It's been on my mind for a while to start small, just myself, and see where it leads. A lot of "Minority" sports don't get half the coverage they deserve and don't even get me started on the poor coverage that underage soccer/GAA/rugby gets; it's a veritable disaster area. I've been shooting underage stuff with years and only recently have some local papers finally decided to give my stuff some coverage; the response from parents was astonishing! Seriously, there is money to be made at this so-called "Grassroots" level.

Correct, it's a kinda sorta Catch 22 scenario; in order to get exposure, one has to get access but in order to get access one has to be "well-known" because of the exposure they get!

Paulw

Yep, there is money to be made.

But, you need to get the clubs/organisations and/or papers onside.

The higher the level of sport, the better the organisation and the more likely that a contract is already in place with either Inpho or Sportsfile.

Many independents or freelance photographers on here shoot sport, and some make some money from it. It's a tough job and not a whole lot of return. You need a niche or way to make enough money to fund what you are doing. That is the hardest starting point.

Corkbah

Gortan60 wrote: »

It's been on my mind for a while to start small, just myself, and see where it leads. A lot of "Minority" sports don't get half the coverage they deserve and don't even get me started on the poor coverage that underage soccer/GAA/rugby gets; it's a veritable disaster area. I've been shooting underage stuff with years and only recently have some local papers finally decided to give my stuff some coverage; the response from parents was astonishing! Seriously, there is money to be made at this so-called "Grassroots" level.

Correct, it's a kinda sorta Catch 22 scenario; in order to get exposure, one has to get access but in order to get access one has to be "well-known" because of the exposure they get!

problem is .... parents dont often want to pay for images of little johnny or mary ... I know another photographer who shot loads of schoolboy stuff for the Star ... and often parents would give him torrents of abuse because he would tell them he could sell them the images but was not going to simply email them for free.....some parents were rightly disgusted that the photographer wouldn't just give them the images for free.

Gortan60

Problem with the papers is that almost all "local" ones do not pay for any images but that is not known by the parents. I've had people telling me that I must be making a fortune from the stuff that appears in local rags, sport and non-sport ones; they simply do not believe me when I tell them that I get zero, that it's just a way of getting my name out there.

Then you get the unusual incidents; last October was the first time that I got a Croke Park pass, for the Ladies GAA Finals, and I wasn't on the sideline ten minutes when I had twenty euros in my pocket for the promise of one single photo by email! Two cousins who happened to be opposing physios in one of the finals and had not met in years...Then another twenty that night after uploading a sample of the day's action...from a local guy who spotted his daughter in a "colour" shot I took...

I'm determined to give it a right good go this year as I'm not getting any younger and feel some, if not all, of my work is as good as anything else out there...http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.289519067818803.56730.100002821374337&type=1

Corkbah

Gortan60 wrote: »

Problem with the papers is that almost all "local" ones do not pay for any images but that is not known by the parents. I've had people telling me that I must be making a fortune from the stuff that appears in local rags, sport and non-sport ones; they simply do not believe me when I tell them that I get zero, that it's just a way of getting my name out there.

Then you get the unusual incidents; last October was the first time that I got a Croke Park pass, for the Ladies GAA Finals, and I wasn't on the sideline ten minutes when I had twenty euros in my pocket for the promise of one single photo by email! Two cousins who happened to be opposing physios in one of the finals and had not met in years...Then another twenty that night after uploading a sample of the day's action...from a local guy who spotted his daughter in a "colour" shot I took...

I'm determined to give it a right good go this year as I'm not getting any younger and feel some, if not all, of my work is as good as anything else out there...http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.289519067818803.56730.100002821374337&type=1

working for free is a common misconception ....this will NOT get your name out there .... by all means ...go out ...do photos - send them in to the local papers, if they print... charge them even its its €10-20 or a batch for €50.... your equipment is loosing value the more you use it, so if you have the opportunity to earn money with it...do that.

As regards Croker ... if you read the terms/conditions of your media accreditation you are not allowed to sell the images you take inside/outside cromer without the permission of the GAA (so they can get their slice of the money)

Gortan60

:)Ya, took a chance with the Croker stuff but that's the type I am...I'll stick my neck out when I have to!

See, through sheer bloody mindedness and determination I have finally got myself a camera that I was chasing with a while, 1D Mk2 N, and the next step is an L tele, so it's time to to try and open new avenues. I really appreciate the feedback, especially on a Saturday night; cheers. I'm off for a cuppa and a smoke...

Ballyman

I'll save you a lot of time, effort and expense - Don't bother.

For the time, effort and expense put into sports photography the return is pittance. All the national and international events are already covered by the major agencies in Ireland and abroad and all the local stuff is usually covered already by either local freelancers (who usually do other stuff on the side) or staffers to the papers and anyway the pay is very very poor per pic published.

If you go to a Rep of Ireland international there will be up to 50 or more photographers there. There are 5 or 6 papers in Ireland all of which have contracts with the major agencies in Ireland and abroad so you can see how impossible it then is.

Don't get me wrong you will sell the odd pic here and there, especially to the UK press, and make some money but it's just pittance. Even freelancing for some of the sports agencies in Ireland is small money for the time and effort put in and it's in no way reliable.

You can make a few bob at event photography - equestrian, athletics and sports like that where the competitors are generally individuals rather than teams but most of the better paying stuff is covered by photographers already so what is left is usually the dregs.

There are a few event photographers on here who would be able to help you better if they pop along.

Best of luck whichever way you go.

mrboswell

Gortan60 wrote: »

Problem with the papers is that almost all "local" ones do not pay for any images but that is not known by the parents. I've had people telling me that I must be making a fortune from the stuff that appears in local rags, sport and non-sport ones; they simply do not believe me when I tell them that I get zero, that it's just a way of getting my name out there.

Then you get the unusual incidents; last October was the first time that I got a Croke Park pass, for the Ladies GAA Finals, and I wasn't on the sideline ten minutes when I had twenty euros in my pocket for the promise of one single photo by email! Two cousins who happened to be opposing physios in one of the finals and had not met in years...Then another twenty that night after uploading a sample of the day's action...from a local guy who spotted his daughter in a "colour" shot I took...

I'm determined to give it a right good go this year as I'm not getting any younger and feel some, if not all, of my work is as good as anything else out there...http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.289519067818803.56730.100002821374337&type=1

As the others have said it is difficult. For starters so of the equipment that is necessary for shooting sport is very expensive. There are also many restrictions on how you can use images.

To aim at national press you will have to provide excellent quality and even if your work is of that standard it is still very difficult to get your images used.

I would suggest trying to find a niche in the local sports or underage games but I wouldn't expect to find a fortune there particularly during a recession.

Paulw

Gortan60 wrote: »

:)Ya, took a chance with the Croker stuff but that's the type I am...I'll stick my neck out when I have to!

See, through sheer bloody mindedness and determination I have finally got myself a camera that I was chasing with a while, 1D Mk2 N, and the next step is an L tele, so it's time to to try and open new avenues. I really appreciate the feedback, especially on a Saturday night; cheers. I'm off for a cuppa and a smoke...

Just watch out with the likes of the GAA and IRFU. Break the rules and you can end up being black-listed, and not gaining any further access to events.

I shoot a lot of sport, as do a few others. You don't make much from it.

In saying that, I don't give papers any images for free. If they want the images, they pay for them. If the club want images to supply to papers, then the club pays for those images. Either way, I get paid. It's the only way to do it. Otherwise, the only name you get, is the name that you're an easy push-over. Clubs love you, papers love you, parents love you ... and you get nothing.

Don't forget you need money for your gear, plus your insurance (and PL insurance).