A 65 year old man died on a flight to Dublin today

Wise Old Elf

As per thejournal.ie, a man has died on a flight from Portugal to Dublin.

http://www.thejournal.ie/man-dies-on-ryanair-flight-740996-Jan2013/

donvito99

I think something similar happened on an AA flight today or yesterday also.

amdublin

I am sure people die on planes every single day.

What point are you making by posting about it?

donvito99

I have no idea how the above poster read any point into the OP's post. It's a sentence long for goodness sake.

amdublin

Yes that is why I am asking. Why did the op post it? What was the point?

In other words:
Someone died. What's your point?

shedweller

It's a bit of news. Get over it! RIP to the poor fella.

Wise Old Elf

shedweller wrote: »

It's a bit of news. Get over it! RIP to the poor fella.

This!
It's a link to a story where a man died on a plane (aviation forum), in Dublin (boards.ie). Did you want me to speculate on what happened to him, etc. FFS!

LeftBase

How will the continental media spin this one into an Anti-Ryanair story I wonder?

I can see The Madrid Times headline "Man dies on Ryanair flight! Full investigation called for"

RIP to the guy.

Wise Old Elf

LeftBase wrote: »

How will the continental media spin this one into an Anti-Ryanair story I wonder?

I can see The Madrid Times headline "Man dies on Ryanair flight! Full investigation called for"

RIP to the guy.

The Journal (and other papers) had Ryanair mentioned in their headlines earlier today, can they really drag it down to that level? RIP to the man.

LeftBase

Disco Stuart wrote: »

The Journal (and other papers) had Ryanair mentioned in their headlines earlier today, can they really drag it down to that level? RIP to the man.

The answer to that question is yes. Maybe the Irish papers wont, but the Spanish would. Any chance for a pop at Ryanair. Although in fairness it would want to be a slow news day.

bk

Well one question is do Ryanair carry defibrillators on board and other medical equipment?

Well the answer is no, according to this article:

http://www.thejournal.ie/airlines-not-required-to-carry-defibrillators-502811-Jun2012/

They also seemingly don't carry other basic medications (not even Aspirin!!).

In the US, all airlines must carry a defibrillator and also a doctors medical kit, with stethoscopes, syrines, various medicines, etc. that can be used by a doctor on board:

http://www.minnesotamedicine.com/tabid/3773/Default.aspx

Davy

Defibrillators are a lot cheaper now than they used to be, so cant see why they dont have them on all planes given that he is bound to save lifes over the machines lifetime. The newest ones even explain exactly what to do. They have changed a lot in the past 5 years

bk

Davy wrote: »

Defibrillators are a lot cheaper now than they used to be, so cant see why they dont have them on all planes given that he is bound to save lifes over the machines lifetime. The newest ones even explain exactly what to do. They have changed a lot in the past 5 years

Yes, I'd like to see EU regulations require it, along with a very extensive doctors medical kit as the FAA do in the US since at least 2004.

It is awful that EU regulations are so far behind on this.

FWVT

You would need someone trained in their use as they are a lethal weapon if used incorrectly, especially in a cramped location like a plane. One victim could become many if eg. the patient was in contact with a row of seats when the charge was administered. Keeping others away is the most important thing to do when using one but that could be tricky.

bk

FWVT wrote: »

You would need someone trained in their use as they are a lethal weapon if used incorrectly, especially in a cramped location like a plane. One victim could become many if eg. the patient was in contact with a row of seats when the charge was administered. Keeping others away is the most important thing to do when using one but that could be tricky.

Yet every single member of cabin crew on airlines in the US is trained in their use since 2004, so obviously it isn't that tricky.

Modern AED's are deisgned to be used by people with no training at all!

FWVT

bk wrote: »

Yet every single member of cabin crew on airlines in the US is trained in their use since 2004, so obviously it isn't that tricky.

Modern AED's are deisgned to be used by people with no training at all!

I didn't say they were tricky to use. They're very simple, but it is extremely important that some rules are followed in order to prevent further victims. Untrained users will most likely not be aware of the consequences of failure to follow these rules, but as more and more people are becoming trained in their use then it is a good idea to have one on board and have cabin crew trained in their use.

Victor

It seems that very few people actually die on flights - people that are likely to die tend not to be up to the flight.

MOL mentioned about 5 years ago that nobody had, to that point, died on a Ryanair flight - after tends of millions of trips.

repsol

bk wrote: »

Yet every single member of cabin crew on airlines in the US is trained in their use since 2004, so obviously it isn't that tricky.

Modern AED's are deisgned to be used by people with no training at all!

Not all heart irregularities are treatable with a defibrillator.While automatic defibs are easy to use without training as most feature audible prompts etc,it must be used in conjunction with proper CPR procedures which do require training.It would be nice to have a resus bag,defib and doctors bag on board flights because even if staff are not trained,there is a good chance a nurse,paramedic,doctor would be on board as a passenger and would be willing to use the equipment.Even if the airlines don't want the expense of training all cabin crew,they could train all pursers for example.

bk

Victor wrote: »

MOL mentioned about 5 years ago that nobody had, to that point, died on a Ryanair flight - after tends of millions of trips.

Well now this is two people who have died on Ryanair flights. Possibly avoidable deaths.

repsol wrote: »

Not all heart irregularities are treatable with a defibrillator.While automatic defibs are easy to use without training as most feature audible prompts etc,it must be used in conjunction with proper CPR procedures which do require training.It would be nice to have a resus bag,defib and doctors bag on board flights because even if staff are not trained,there is a good chance a nurse,paramedic,doctor would be on board as a passenger and would be willing to use the equipment.Even if the airlines don't want the expense of training all cabin crew,they could train all pursers for example.

Agree completely. If an AED and doctors bag are requirements on all airlines in the US, I see no excuse for it not being the same in Europe.

Wise Old Elf

repsol wrote: »

Not all heart irregularities are treatable with a defibrillator.While automatic defibs are easy to use without training as most feature audible prompts etc,it must be used in conjunction with proper CPR procedures which do require training.It would be nice to have a resus bag,defib and doctors bag on board flights because even if staff are not trained,there is a good chance a nurse,paramedic,doctor would be on board as a passenger and would be willing to use the equipment.Even if the airlines don't want the expense of training all cabin crew,they could train all pursers for example.

Good point, the article did mention that the person was treated by doctors who were on board, but obviously couldn't do anything for him. Maybe kit wouldn't have helped this case, but a defib and emergency meds prob should be on all commercial flights.

repsol

Victor wrote: »

It seems that very few people actually die on flights - people that are likely to die tend not to be up to the flight.

MOL mentioned about 5 years ago that nobody had, to that point, died on a Ryanair flight - after tends of millions of trips.

The figures can be interpreted in different ways. Technically,a person is not dead until a Doctor or AP certifies them.If a person is taken from a flight with no pulse present and brought to A+E where a doctor pronounces them dead ,they are dead on arrival and have not died on a flight but died in the hospital.Prisons used this technicality quite a lot.

Cessna_Pilot

RIP to the deceased gentlemen, and well done to the entire crew for good decision making and the doctors who tried to help him.

IngazZagni

I think the majority of airlines in Europe do not carry a defibrillator on board for short haul operations. Does anyone know which airlines, if any do use them on short haul ops?

I was told that there are some stupid legal rules in Europe in relation to this situation. That airlines could be faced with severe legal implications if a defribillator was not used correctly however by not carrying one at all they would not be liable. This is also the case for other medical equipment and drugs like Asprin. It would not surprise me if this was the number one reason for airlines not carrying them.

APM

Although I fully agree that defibs should be fitted onboard all European flights and I know EI (shorthaul) and Ryanair do not have them fitted, Europe has far more "nearest suitable airports" than the USA has.

In most parts of Europe if needed a crew could have the aircraft on the ground in 20-25mins...I'm pretty sure this would not be possible on a lot of flights within the USA. I think the biggest exception to this would be the oceanic routes to the canaries from Ireland.

Still though, I believe they should be fitted as standard in Europe. Any single life saved within a year makes it all worthwhile

smurfjed

That airlines could be faced with severe legal implications

We had a passenger who suffered an "attack" of some kind during a commercial transatlantic flight, the flight was going to divert to Canada to offload the passenger for medical care, the passenger recovered enough to state that he was OK to continue to the USA and didn't want to get offloaded in Canada.

One of the first things that he did upon landing in the USA was start a law suit against the airline for not landing to get him immediate medical care!

So you have to appreciate that from an airlines point of view, if its not mandated by regulations, then the legal liability rests with them, why should the airline accept that risk?

smurfjed

Best username ever

I was on a futura flight from Majorca a few years back when an old man had a heart attack, now we were not aware of this as we were at the back of the plane.

The pilot didn't tell us what was happening and proceeded to nose dive the plane into an airport somewhere in France. I was feckin planking it. I'd say we were on the ground within 15 min. Then the captain said "very sorry about the sudden decent, but we have a very sick passenger aboard, I hope you understand"

That was fine but he could have warned us he was going to kamakazie into some airfield in France.

RIP to the gentleman.

coylemj

Was in Disney in Orlando a few years ago, noticed AED boxes mounted on the wall all over the place and presumably lots of the staff were trained in how to use them. A consultant in the Mater said a few years ago that if you were going to have a heart attack in a public place, Croke Park would be the place to go. He said that if an ambulance is bringing a cardiac arrest victim up to the Mater from Croke Park, the hospital people know that he's probably had a blast from an AED so his heartbeat will have been stabilised and his chances of survival will be pretty good.

I only ever saw an AED in one office building in all my travels, a firm of solicitors in Dublin, not one of the bigger ones mind. They probably had it in case the client keeled over when he saw the bill!

LeftBase

I grew up around a lot of sports clubs and there were defibs all over the place. They have become a bit of a panic buy for the last few years in the wake of several high profile heart attacks on the pitch.

I was trained to use one as part of my Rugby Club. Blanch and Liffey Vally have them too.

Mycroft H

FWVT wrote: »

You would need someone trained in their use as they are a lethal weapon if used incorrectly, especially in a cramped location like a plane. One victim could become many if eg. the patient was in contact with a row of seats when the charge was administered. Keeping others away is the most important thing to do when using one but that could be tricky.

Urban Myth. Not a hope of it happening.

Locker10a

APM wrote: »

Although I fully agree that defibs should be fitted onboard all European flights and I know EI (shorthaul) and Ryanair do not have them fitted,

No Ryanair dont have them but Aer Lingus both short and Long haul do have them afaik

IngazZagni

Locker10a wrote: »

No Ryanair dont have them but Aer Lingus both short and Long haul do have them afaik

Aer Lingus does not have them on short haul flights, neither do the vast majority of short haul operators in Europe.

http://www.aerlingus.com/help/help/specialassistance/

.Heartstream Defibrillators are installed on our A330 aircraft for emergency use by authorised personnel only.

b318isp

Although I'm not against AEDs on aircraft, an issue is the time to get to a person to a proper hospital. With a descent from cruise altitude, a landing, transfer to a hospital and then proper treatment, the chances for the person are getting very slim. AEDs on the ground have one less complexity to worry about.

There is an urban myth that AEDs are a fairy tale solution to cardiac arrest - and they are in a very small number of cases, which often need repeated shocking. However, they must be used with effective CPR to increase the odds of survival in most cases. For the couple of percent of persons that can be fully revived and the increase odds thereafter, they are well worth the expense though.

repsol

I hear Ryanair are getting defibrillators with a slot for the victims credit card!

Cessna_Pilot

repsol wrote: »

I hear Ryanair are getting defibrillators with a slot for the victims credit card!

Bad taste.

bk

coylemj wrote: »

I only ever saw an AED in one office building in all my travels, a firm of solicitors in Dublin, not one of the bigger ones mind.

My office has them on every floor and no not a solicitors office, IT. Most of the large US IT multinationals have them.

Coming back from Gdansk Aiport after New Years, I noticed they had them through out the airport. I was very impressed.

donkey balls

As the saying goes early access, early CPR, early AED, early ALS post resus etc. By using an AED you greatly increase the chances the patient has of survival along with good CPR skills,As another poster mentioned the use of an AED will not save everyone but the same could be said about the lifepack 12 the likes of the DFB use not everyone will make it through.
Having the likes of Aspirin 300mg along with the AED and other resus devices is better than having nothing,If it was me on board the back galley on the 737 would suffice for carrying out CPR.

APM

Locker10a wrote: »

No Ryanair dont have them but Aer Lingus both short and Long haul do have them afaik

Thanked by Shamrock321 but they do not have on shorthaul, as I said previously neither have them.

Miss Lockhart

RIP to the man and condolences to his family.

I have to say I am a little shocked that airlines are not required to carry and AED and basic medical equipment. Every school I know has an AED and trained staff, they are in every shopping centre I know and most offices I'm familiar with. I personally know over 20 people who are trained to use an AED - it's very common.

I have a heart condition and it certainly concerns me that there is no EU regulation in this regard.