Beef/guinness pie/stew

Toast4532

Hi all,

I'm looking to make a beef and guinness pie/stew, I'd like to try a slow-cooker recipe, if anyone can recommend a good one?

I have made this one a few times and I don't like it, there's always a strong after taste. At first I thought I'd put too much herbs in, but then I left out the herbs and the taste is still there, so I don't know what the taste is from.

I have two bottle of the FES stout so would prefer to use those rather than buying more guinness.

What I'd like to do is make a stew and then top it with puff pastry and put it in the oven for a bit.

I'd really appreciate it if someone could recommend any recipes as there are so many out there I just don't know what to go for. I've seen recipes that call for chocolate, but I have never heard of chocolate in a stew, so am a bit dubious about them.

HeidiHeidi

I've just made the beef in guinness stew from the Avoca cookbook tonight, and it's bloody gorgeous. Nothing to stop you topping it off with pastry after it's done. I also suspect that any sort of stout would do, doesn't particularly have to be Guinness (although I don't actually know what FES is.....)

If you google "avoca beef guinness" you'll find the recipes posted on various forums (fora?). Some seem to be missing the 300ml of beef stock and a spoon of tomato puree that's in the version I have. Otherwise identical

Can't recommend highly enough!

ETA - just seen that you want a slow-cooker version - don't know how the liquid amounts would translate for that as I've never used one. I used a casserole dish in the oven at 140 for 2 hours.

Toast4532

Sorry I should have said in my post that FES is the guinness foreign extra stout, apologies.

Could you post up the recipe you have? I've just googled quickly for the Avoca recipe and there are different recipes so I don't know which is right as I have no Avoca cookbooks to check with.

Doesn't have to be slow cooker, all recipes are appreciated

Thanks for your help.

HeidiHeidi

This is one I found earlier (had this exact conversation with a pal of mine abroad about an hour ago!)

This one doesn't mention the 300ml beef stock (I made up 200ml with a knorr stockpot thingy) or the spoon of tomato puree (which I ignored as I didn't have any).

Other than that, exactly as I made it. I ovened it at 140 for 1.5 hours, then stuck a layer of new potatoes on top for another half hour.

http://fiddleheadsfood.weebly.com/uploads/9/7/4/6/9746562/avoca_cafes_beef__guinness_stew.pdf

The Black Oil

I've made one of Jamie Oliver's ones (here) pretty often in the slow cooker, even though it's an oven recipe, iirc.

This thread might help, also. I've not used Guinness in a while.

Cheshire Cat

I'm also a fan of the Jamie Oliver version. Taste wise I think the FES is your problem. I bought that once by mistake and the stew tasted very bitter, was able to rescue it with some treacle I tend to use Beamish, it gives the nicest taste.

hardCopy

I use Smithwick's for the Jamie Oliver stew. Purely because it's a great way to use up a 6-Pack of Smithwick's I was given in a Kris-Kindle. I let it cook on the hob as my oven seems to dry everything out something awful.

Alun

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

Taste wise I think the FES is your problem.

I agree, nice though Foreign Extra Stout is to drink on it's own (IMO anyway), it probably has a bit too strong a burnt malt taste for a stew like that. Even using 'normal' Guinness, I find that you need to cook it long and slow, otherwise you'll retain that bitter after-taste.

Chronic Button

I have a general basic method (nicked and changed up slightly from much better cooks) that I use for beef stew.

1kg diced beef
2 cups red wine or stout
2 cups good quality beef stock
1 punnet mushrooms
1 large onion, finely diced
2 carrots, finely diced
1 stick celery, finely diced
1 clove garlic, crushed
1/4 tsp thyme
2 bay leaves, crumbled
1 tablespoon tomato puree
Olive oil, butter, salt, pepper, flour

Set oven to 210

Heat a big knob of butter and a drop of oil in a large pan. Toss diced beef in flour and fry in butter until browned. Transfer to an oven-proof casserole dish.

Put the browned beef into the oven for 5 minutes to help deepen the colouring. Remove and turn oven down to 150.

Meanwhile, fry the onion, celery and carrot until softened. Add to the casserole. Now add the stock, red wine, thyme, puree, salt, pepper, crumbled bay leaves and garlic, and stir well. Cover and put in the oven for 2-2.5 hours, until the meat is tender and the gravy is thick. Stir every 45 mins or so to prevent sticking. Taste - you may wish to add a little sugar if the stout you have used is bitter. Red wine is usually fine without it.

While it is cooking, brown the mushrooms in butter and set aside.

Remove the casserole from the oven when you are satisfied the meat is tender. Stir in the mushrooms and set on a low heat on the hob for a few mins until the mushrooms are heated through. If any fat from the meat has risen to the top, you can now spoon it off.

I like to serve it with carrots, broccoli, mash and crusty baguette and butter. It's a little bit of work but it's so comforting and delicious.

It's even nicer on day two. Here's mine on day two, with a potato cake made from the leftover mash.

Chronic Button

Sorry, I should add, a pastry topping works beautifully on this. Apologies if it's not very relevant to slow-cooking needs.

It could defo go in the slow cooker for the last stage, but perhaps you might use less liquid as there is no evaporation.

neilthefunkeone

Ive also used the Jamie one above.. cooked on the hob too..
Stout wise ive tried it with Guiness Extra stout & oharas stout.. both very nice!

Usually make a huge dish and freeze portions.. Can make small individual pies at later dates then!!

Toast4532

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

I'm also a fan of the Jamie Oliver version. Taste wise I think the FES is your problem. I bought that once by mistake and the stew tasted very bitter, was able to rescue it with some treacle I tend to use Beamish, it gives the nicest taste.

Alun wrote: »

I agree, nice though Foreign Extra Stout is to drink on it's own (IMO anyway), it probably has a bit too strong a burnt malt taste for a stew like that. Even using 'normal' Guinness, I find that you need to cook it long and slow, otherwise you'll retain that bitter after-taste.

That's exactly the type of taste I get, a horrid bitter taste.

Is there a stout/ale anyone can recommend for it? As I don't drink stout/ales I'm not sure what to go for.

I appreciate all the lovely recipes here, deffo going to try one of them tonight. I have no casserole dish so my round pyrex will have to do for now

HeidiHeidi

I just used a bog-standard can of Guinness I got in the off-licence. Cooked long and slow, and it's gorgeous.

I also do a giant pot of the thing, and now have five portions in the freezer

Chronic Button

I always just use a can of draught Guinness or Beamish, too.

Chronic Button

Toast4532 wrote: »

I have no casserole dish so my round pyrex will have to do for now

As long as it has a lid that is a perfect casserole dish.

jh79

Toast4532 wrote: »

That's exactly the type of taste I get, a horrid bitter taste.

Is there a stout/ale anyone can recommend for it? As I don't drink stout/ales I'm not sure what to go for.

I appreciate all the lovely recipes here, deffo going to try one of them tonight. I have no casserole dish so my round pyrex will have to do for now

The bitter taste could be the alcohol, turn the heat up on the pan and make sure the stout boils for a few minutes to remove the alcohol.

If you put the stout directly into the slow cooker the alcohol will not be removed and it will taste bitter.

Toast4532

Chronic Button wrote: »

As long as it has a lid that is a perfect casserole dish.

Thankfully it does have a lid

I am dying to get my hands on a Le Cruset casserole dish, however until I win the lottery, it won't happen Boo!

Thanks a million for all the help guys. Going to get a can of regular guinness or beamish and try it.

HeidiHeidi

Toast4532 wrote: »

Thankfully it does have a lid

I am dying to get my hands on a Le Cruset casserole dish, however until I win the lottery, it won't happen Boo!

Thanks a million for all the help guys. Going to get a can of regular guinness or beamish and try it.

Kildare Village outlet. Nuff said. That's what/where got me cooking beef stews

the beer revolu

Toast4532 wrote: »

That's exactly the type of taste I get, a horrid bitter taste.

Is there a stout/ale anyone can recommend for it? As I don't drink stout/ales I'm not sure what to go for.

The Black Oil wrote: »

This thread might help, also. I've not used Guinness in a while.

As TBO already pointed out, there's lots of info in an old thread including lots of options for beers to use.

Toast4532

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Kildare Village outlet. Nuff said. That's what/where got me cooking beef stews

the beer revolu wrote: »

As TBO already pointed out, there's lots of info in an old thread including lots of options for beers to use.

Thanks a million, I'd forgotten about that link.

Going to use the O'Hara's in the red bottle

The Black Oil

I saw a few Le Creuset items in TK Maxx in Swords before Christmas, but I wasn't buying, so I don't recall how much they were, and I don't think they had any casserole dishes.

Oh, there's an an Irish site. http://www.lecreuset.ie expensive enough, alright.

Alun

I suppose things like this can appear expensive, but when you consider that they'll almost certainly last an entire lifetime, and that people will gladly spend the same amount or more on electronic gadgets that will either become obsolete or break down within a year or so and be thrown out, then it doesn't seem quite that bad after all.

I used to buy cheap stuff and throw it away when it wore out, but I've stopped that and just save up until I can afford something that will last. I just wish I'd started doing it earlier and saved a lot more money in the long run

blueshed

Toast4532 wrote: »

Thanks a million, I'd forgotten about that link.

Going to use the O'Hara's in the red bottle

http://www.carlowbrewing.com/beer_detail.php?Pid=24&PHPSESSID=089850f34bac897269eba4939730e6a9

good choice there

iora_rua

I've found the best way to to remove the slightly bitter taste in stews from alcohol and tomatoes is to add a dash of sugar.

Toast4532

I made the stew tonight using the Avoca recipe and used the O'Hara ale with the red label and let the stew boil for about 5-7 minutes to cook off the alcohol and put it in the oven for 1.5 hours and after taking it out of the oven I could still get a strong bitter taste from it, which I'm pretty sure was the ale, though I could be wrong.

I'll make another beef stew, this time without any alcohol and see what it is like.

Chronic Button

Toast4532 wrote: »

I made the stew tonight using the Avoca recipe and used the O'Hara ale with the red label and let the stew boil for about 5-7 minutes to cook off the alcohol and put it in the oven for 1.5 hours and after taking it out of the oven I could still get a strong bitter taste from it, which I'm pretty sure was the ale, though I could be wrong.

I'll make another beef stew, this time without any alcohol and see what it is like.

Did you add a spoonful of sugar to it as suggested? I always need to add sugar when I use stout.

Mr. CooL ICE

My recipe is easy and is a mishmash of various recipes I read about online. I recently served it to some Italian friends who demolished it.

500g casserole beef/lamb
500g potatoes
4-5 carrots
1 big or 2 small onions
1 can guinness
1/3 bottle of red wine
2-3 stock cubes
Thyme
100g butter
Olive oil
Tomato puree
5-10 cloves of garlic (depending how much you like garlic)

1) Put 1 tbsp oil and 50g butter into a large pot at medium heat. Add in the meat and brown it. As soon as you see no more red, turn down to low and add in 2 tbsp tomato puree and the garlic finely chopped and stir through the meat. Once the garlic has started to sweat, add in the red wine.

2) Put 1 tbsp oil and 50g butter into a medium pot at medium heat. Finely chop the onion and add it in. Peel/chop the carrot and potato into medium chunks and add it in. Cover pot and leave aside for 20 mins.

3) While (2) is there, gradually add the can of guinness in drops at a time. Also gradually add in the stock. I use 1 oxo beef cube and 1 knorr cube (lamb if I'm cooking lamb) with about 150ml water. Keep adding and stirring gradually until (2 is done).

4) Once (2) is done, empty the entire contents into the big pot and stir. Add in a bunch of thyme. If you want, some Franks Hot Sauce for a kick is nice too. Cover and leave for 1.5-2 hours, stirring every 30 mins or so.

5) Once done, let to sit aside for about 15 mins before serving.

Toast4532

Chronic Button wrote: »

Did you add a spoonful of sugar to it as suggested? I always need to add sugar when I use stout.

No I didn't, I totally forgot about it

My boyfriend said if the stew was left to cook on the hob rather than in the oven the alcohol would have evaporated and there would only have been a hint of the flavour from it, is he right?

Faith

If you don't drink stout or ale, why cook with it? You can make perfectly good stews without it, or using red wine.

Toast4532

Faith wrote: »

If you don't drink stout or ale, why cook with it? You can make perfectly good stews without it, or using red wine.

Because I thought the flavour of ale/stout wouldn't be too strong in stews and thought it might be nice, that's why I tried cooking with it.

I know I can make perfectly good stews without ale/stout and with red wine (but I don't like red wine so never use it in cooking) I just wanted to try something different and there's nothing wrong with that.

Chronic Button

I think the sugar might be key. I never make a Guinness stew without adding a spoonful of sugar. It does the trick nicely.

I don't know about the scientific ins and outs of using alcohol in cooking but as far as I know, alcohol itself is tasteless, so by boiling it off quickly you're evaporating both the alcohol and some of the liquid content, thus intensifying the flavour of the stout or ale.

I would defo try the sugar next time. Hard luck.

Faith

Toast4532 wrote: »

Because I thought the flavour of ale/stout wouldn't be too strong in stews and thought it might be nice, that's why I tried cooking with it.

I know I can make perfectly good stews without ale/stout and with red wine (but I don't like red wine so never use it in cooking) I just wanted to try something different and there's nothing wrong with that.

No, of course there's nothing wrong with it, but it just doesn't seem to be working out for you because of the flavour of the stout. I'm just making the point that there's plenty of stout and ale free alternatives if you don't enjoy those flavours, rather than trying to force those flavours into something you enjoy .

Valkerie33

Hello Folks..

the bitterness would be from Hops in the Guiness. Alcohol flashes off rather quickly, so you would have not worries with that as Ethanol boils at a lower point than water.

Sugar could work, but I'd suggest Molasses for a more complex flavor profile. it will ad some color, less "sweetness" and would mask the bitterness but also complement the roasted barley notes of the Guinness.

Cheers to good food

Valkerie33

Dizzyblonde

I have to agree about stout or ale not being to everyone's taste. I've been making beef stews and pies for years, and I don't like them with added alcohol. I've tried the Avoca one and the Jamie Oliver one and I really prefer it without.
It's a matter of personal taste.

rubadub

Valkerie33 wrote: »

Alcohol flashes off rather quickly, so you would have not worries with that as Ethanol boils at a lower point than water.

It doesn't go as fast as many people think. Many people wrongly think that since alcohol boils at 78.5C that if you heat a mixture to this, or above it all the alcohol goes off, but it doesn't work like that. There is pretty much always some left over which could be an issue for people with religious dietary needs, or possibly alcoholics.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/11/alcohol-doesnt-really-cook-out-of-food-in-most-cases/

NewFrockTuesday

I havent logged in in ages but when I saw this thread I just had to.

I had the same problem a the first few times I made the pie. Now I add the Guinness after the whole dish is cooked through and ready to put in the oven. Cool the stew a little and then add in the Guinness and then into the dish. Obviously the stew needs to be a bit thicker than usual to allow this - but you dont need much ale as it has a strong taste anyway. That acrid bitter kick wont be present rather you will have the aley taste that makes the dish so special.

For an extra special touch I add tobacco onions at the last minuet as well.

When I making the pastry - I prefer Flakey not Puff - I add a little dried mixed herbs. Gives a little kiss to the overall taste.

Hope this help! Its my favourite dinner so Ive been perfecting my recipie for years

Toast4532

Faith wrote: »

No, of course there's nothing wrong with it, but it just doesn't seem to be working out for you because of the flavour of the stout. I'm just making the point that there's plenty of stout and ale free alternatives if you don't enjoy those flavours, rather than trying to force those flavours into something you enjoy .

Apologies Faith, I thought you were trying to be smart with your original post, I misunderstood what you meant, apologies.

I like some stouts/ales, but not many and thought by trying different ones in cooking the flavours etc wouldn't be as strong.

Tazz T

I find using halved shallots instead of onions adds extra sweetness.

Feeder

I had my first attempt at the Jamie Oliver stew there at the weekend and I was happy enough with my first effort.

Got that casserole dish in Aldi and had only made a jalfrezi in it so far but that worked out a treat.

Anyhow just wondering if/when people add spuds to the pot ? I halved about 10 baby spuds and put em in at the start, this is not in the recipe.

When the recipe says to take off the lid for the last 1/2 hour i noticed there was very little liquid left. Is it because the spuds were in too early or cos the oven temp he suggests is too high (180C) or a combo of both reasons.

I just added water to top it up and have the contents just about covered in liquid.

I was lovely and really tasty though but for next time can I reduce the temp to say 140/150ish and throw in the spuds later ? ? ?

BTW serves 4/6 ha

HeidiHeidi

Feeder wrote: »

I had my first attempt at the Jamie Oliver stew there at the weekend and I was happy enough with my first effort.

Got that casserole dish in Aldi and had only made a jalfrezi in it so far but that worked out a treat.

Anyhow just wondering if/when people add spuds to the pot ? I halved about 10 baby spuds and put em in at the start, this is not in the recipe.

When the recipe says to take off the lid for the last 1/2 hour i noticed there was very little liquid left. Is it because the spuds were in too early or cos the oven temp he suggests is too high (180C) or a combo of both reasons.

I just added water to top it up and have the contents just about covered in liquid.

I was lovely and really tasty though but for next time can I reduce the temp to say 140/150ish and throw in the spuds later ? ? ?

BTW serves 4/6 ha

I've only done the Avoca recipe that I posted above - no spuds in that either

I cook it for 2 hrs at 140, and put a layer of new potatoes on the top for the last half hour. I don't take the lid off at all, and wind up with a very liquidy result but I prefer it like that - mashed spuds soaking up all that gravy, yum yum

notfromhere

hi lads
ave some leftover stew from last night ,going to heat it up tonight,what can i add to it,

Feeder

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I've only done the Avoca recipe that I posted above - no spuds in that either

I cook it for 2 hrs at 140, and put a layer of new potatoes on the top for the last half hour. I don't take the lid off at all, and wind up with a very liquidy result but I prefer it like that - mashed spuds soaking up all that gravy, yum yum

Thanks for the info Heidi, i tried the low temp today with tin foil but it was too watery, none of the liquid really evaporated off. Think I have it sussed now, tin foil and higher temp should see me right and no cover for the last 1/2hour

Muckit

Faith wrote: »

If you don't drink stout or ale, why cook with it? You can make perfectly good stews without it, or using red wine.

I would have to agree. I'm a guinness drinker, but having tried using stout a few times in stews, as pointed out by OP, I found it left a funny after taste that I didn't like.

A bottle of Red vino is the job in my books And keep the content simple. Whole shallots and mushrooms, stock cube and bouquet garni along with some nice stewing beef . Season everything well with LOADS of black pepper (no need for salt, plenty of saltyness from stockcube)...... into the oven for 2-2.5hrs (160C)... YUM!!

Scoop out the meat and veg and thicken the sauce with a table spoon or so of cornflour (or plain flour), then throw everything back in.

Make two days in advance for extra .....WOW! You don't even need to stick in the fridge. Leave in the casserole dish and place in a cool conservatory or similar. I find it ideal dinner party grub, especially impressive when dished up in mini casserole dishes with an optional puff pastry lid.