Jimmy's Winnin' Matches

K-9

Thu 3 Jan, 21:35 - 22:35
RTÉ One
(Documentary)
The story behind Donegal football team's victory at the 2012 All-Ireland final.


The Journey of Donegal's Champions The remarkable story of Donegal football team and how it went on to win the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship final in front of an 80,000-strong crowd at Croke Park, Dublin, in September 2012. The documentary follows former player and manager Jim McGuinness's efforts to turn his team from what many considered a weak side into a respected squad and an influential force in modern Gaelic football.

Quick heads up that this is on tonight. Filming was supposed to have started after the Semi Final defeat to Dublin in 2011 so it should give a good account of the 13 months to the All Ireland.

tennessee time

class

lala88

Joe Brolly saying he had seen them training from the start, sure you did Joe...

Justin10

What a load of rubbish.
I seriously believe this system is used as an excuse. They have plenty of decent players.

Get to hear Brolly spout a load of rubbish too
Also its pretty much crap to say Donegal fans had a problem with the system too, they loved it.

theoneeyedman

Matt Cooper.....Jesus Wept!

shiibata

Some kleenex tissues being used tonight:p

Smartly Dressed

Donegal and a collection of soundtracks from Batman films.

lala88

Rochey18 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish.
I seriously believe this system is used as an excuse. They have plenty of decent players.

Get to hear Brolly spout a load of rubbish too
Also its pretty much crap to say Donegal fans had a problem with the system too, they loved it.

I agree. Donegal & Jim McGuinness are they really as good as there being made out to be? Jim McGuinness is being made out to be some kind of super manager and by the way some people talk about it you would think he took them from Div 4 to winning the All Ireland. Had Kerry won an All Ireland playing the same way as Donegal would the media be as fast to praise them?

rebel girl 15

Worth watchin on the player lads??? Didn't bother watching it - reckoned there wouldn't exactly be any huge revelations given past history - but the mention of Matt Cooper and Brolly, probably won't watch it!

robbiezero

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Worth watchin on the player lads??? Didn't bother watching it - reckoned there wouldn't exactly be any huge revelations given past history - but the mention of Matt Cooper and Brolly, probably won't watch it!

Wouldnt bother with it. Nothing interesting or new in it, bar maybe you were from Donegal. I thought it might have been something like Pat Comers brilliant documentary on Galway but it wasn't.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The media seemed to have forgotten over the last couple of years that Donegal has some excellent players on that team Karl Lacey,Neil McGee,Neil Gallagher,Kevin Cassidy,Rory Kavanagh,Michael Murphy,Colm McFadden were all very good footballers who were all well established before McGuinness took over and so McGuinness has been given too much credit and the media have been very patronising towards the players. However McGuinness still did a great job and a managers job is to get the best out of his players which is what he achieved and he deserves alot of credit for that as alot of managers fail to get the best out of the players he is managing

Neeson

lala88 wrote: »

I agree. Donegal & Jim McGuinness are they really as good as there being made out to be? Jim McGuinness is being made out to be some kind of super manager and by the way some people talk about it you would think he took them from Div 4 to winning the All Ireland. Had Kerry won an All Ireland playing the same way as Donegal would the media be as fast to praise them?

Well people wouldn't make anything of Kerry winning it as they have done it quite often in the recent past.

smurph10

An enjoyable hrs entertainment

Brolly said he went to see one of their trainings not that he has been there from the start.

Kerry manager didn't go on to get a professional job out of it so of course there is going to be some interest in the Donegal set up.

A lot of begrudgery out there.

Not a Donegal man by the way.

rebel girl 15

Cheers lads - won't waste my time on it so! Was trying to find the documentary about the Dublin ladies gaelic from a few years ago, and stumbled on this one instead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv2EbjhAf-I

megadodge

lala88 wrote: »

I agree. Donegal & Jim McGuinness are they really as good as there being made out to be? Jim McGuinness is being made out to be some kind of super manager and by the way some people talk about it you would think he took them from Div 4 to winning the All Ireland. Had Kerry won an All Ireland playing the same way as Donegal would the media be as fast to praise them?

You're completely missing the point.
Donegal weren't even in the top 12 teams in Ireland only two years ago. All the players that starred this year were established before McGuinness came and what had they achieved ? Nothing.

They hadn't even won an Ulster since 1992. In his first year they win Ulster and run eventual champs Dublin to 2 points in the All-Ireland semi-final. They win successive Ulsters for the first time ever and win the All-Ireland in his second year. With basically much the same players that had done nothing before he came (minus the brilliant Kevin Cassidy).

I think that's pretty exceptional by anybody's standards.

lala88

megadodge wrote: »

You're completely missing the point.
Donegal weren't even in the top 12 teams in Ireland only two years ago. All the players that starred this year were established before McGuinness came and what had they achieved ? Nothing.

They hadn't even won an Ulster since 1992. In his first year they win Ulster and run eventual champs Dublin to 2 points in the All-Ireland semi-final. They win successive Ulsters for the first time ever and win the All-Ireland in his second year. With basically much the same players that had done nothing before he came (minus the brilliant Kevin Cassidy).

I think that's pretty exceptional by anybody's standards.

Not true most of the main players were part of the team that won the league in 07

tayto lover

After the hammering Donegal got from Armagh in Crossmaglen it was a miracle what McGuinness managed to get from that team in fairness.
A lot of jealousy being spouted methinks.

megadodge

lala88 wrote: »

Not true most of the main players were part of the team that won the league in 07

Fair enough, but championship is really what matters and we all know that. In that respect they were serious underachievers.

robbiezero

A decent manager and Jimmy is obviously a very good one can make a huge difference to a side and bad management can destroy a side.

Look at the state of the fine 2010 Tipperary team 2 years later getting humiliated with largely the same players.

K-9

Brolly has said a few times that he didn't actually get to watch the full training session, he was spotted and kicked out but I'd believe him when he says he never saw anything like it before.

Yep, he had talented footballers but heavily criticised players, I'm sure those who think they are talented now, saw them as bottlers and an easy touch up until last year. Hindsight is a great thing.

Colm McFadden is the perfect example, derided for being a bottler, scoffed at for missing the goal chance against Dublin that probably would have won the match, top scorer in this championship and the forward of the year.

To get a team of bottlers and easy touches, that the top teams knew would play nice stuff but eventually cave in, to buy into a hated system, a manager with the audacity to bring that to Croker on an AI Semi Final, that's the achievement.

The level of hatred that they got last year makes this year all the sweeter. Put it this, read any predictions threads from this time last year and Donegal rarely get a mention, not that talented at all it seems.

Justin10

smurph10 wrote: »

A lot of begrudgery out there.

Begrudgery towards who??
Il never have time for him after having to watch the tripe during the semi final against Dublin.

People have a problem with him taking all the praise when there is brilliant footballers like Lacey and Murphy.

shiibata

lala88 wrote: »

Not true most of the main players were part of the team that won the league in 07

Derry won league in 08 and look where they are.....

robbiezero

K-9 wrote: »

Brolly has said a few times that he didn't actually get to watch the full training session, he was spotted and kicked out but I'd believe him when he says he never saw anything like it before.

Yep, he had talented footballers but heavily criticised players, I'm sure those who think they are talented now, saw them as bottlers and an easy touch up until last year. Hindsight is a great thing.

Colm McFadden is the perfect example, derided for being a bottler, scoffed at for missing the goal chance against Dublin that probably would have won the match, top scorer in this championship and the forward of the year.

To get a team of bottlers and easy touches, that the top teams knew would play nice stuff but eventually cave in, to buy into a hated system, a manager with the audacity to bring that to Croker on an AI Semi Final, that's the achievement.

The level of hatred that they got last year makes this year all the sweeter. Put it this, read any predictions threads from this time last year and Donegal rarely get a mention, not that talented at all it seems.

You can have hated them in 2011 and still been delighted and enjoyed them in 2012.

Syferus

A vast step up on RTE's usual holiday recaps of the AI champions' season, this one getting access to the players, the manager as well as opposition players and managers.

The narration became far too over-written by the end though and the slow-motion stop-start effects they used for in-play sections was interesting but the sound effects they dubbed in made it look a tad silly. They really should have had the welcome home as part of the documentary proper and not the background to the credits because, as Jim said himself, it was the moment they were dreaming about.

It's not A Year 'Til Sunday in its level of access (this is Jimmy we're talking about, after all) or the quality of Reaching for Glory (a documentary on the Irish rugby team's 2007 season) but it's certainly going in the right direction and hopefully this year's AI champions get the same level of effort. Just sit down the producers in front of a few episodes of America's Game and we'll be rolling.

overshoot

Rochey18 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish.
I seriously believe this system is used as an excuse. They have plenty of decent players.

Get to hear Brolly spout a load of rubbish too
Also its pretty much crap to say Donegal fans had a problem with the system too, they loved it.

agree with part 1

brolly wasnt with us from the start but there was some fitness training session he was at that drastically changed his opinion, it was after the derry ulster final i think. he mentioned it in the documentary

and personally i defended it to the death, had seen too many massacres when we got to croker to give a fook how we won(cork qf and the armagh ulster final really stuck out), but i know plenty who had big issues with it in 2011 (soon vanished in but it was a much evolved system 2012)

to be honest though, i wouldnt bother if your not from donegal, its match footage, a few shots of the fitness training sessions and some nice scenery shots of donegal. nothing there that wasnt common knowledge
in saying that, as a donegal man... worth a look for bringing back a few goosebumps:)

also the previews seemed to mention it kicking in after the semi final defeat... it took about over half the show to reach that point. could have had the makings of a good documentary if there was proper tracking of the aftermath, regrouping, working on the system during the league etc but a few mins on cassidy took that entire part

Fr D Maugire

There was nothing particularly insightful in the programme but as a Donegal man it was nice to relive some of the moments. With McGuinness on the case they were hardly going to get much insightful, the wrong team and manager to do an insightul documentary on.

I hated the voice on the narrator and there were a few minor errors like the narrator saying Donegal had won nothing major in 19 years. I guess winning the Div 1 National league doesn't count in their eyes;).

I think the role of McGuinness can be overstated as there were already some fantastic players on the team but as has already been noted, he made a team from the remains of the 2010 team who were hammered by Armagh and made them an All-Ireland winning team in the space of two years. Many of those same players were ready to throw in the towel after that Armagh game.

It never mentioned that McGuinness originally had a 5 year plan to win an All-Ireland but achieved it in 2 obvioulsy.

Not all Donegal supporters loved the type of play from 2011, I hated it and if we had continued to play like that I would have lost interest. Fact is they modified their play this year and were awesome to watch at full-tilt. Many other fans of other counties try to make out Donegal 2012 were a replica of 2011, they weren't.

lala88

shiibata wrote: »

Derry won league in 08 and look where they are.....

what does that have to do with anything? The poster said the Donegal players had not won anything and they had

overshoot

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I hated the voice on the narrator and there were a few minor errors like the narrator saying Donegal had won nothing major in 19 years. I guess winning the Div 1 National league doesn't count in their eyes;).

actually that reminded me... did they say 2011 was donegal's first ulster final in 19 years? i hope they threw in victory but i didnt hear it

lala88

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

There was nothing particularly insightful in the programme but as a Donegal man it was nice to relive some of the moments. With McGuinness on the case they were hardly going to get much insightful, the wrong team and manager to do an insightul documentary on.

I hated the voice on the narrator and there were a few minor errors like the narrator saying Donegal had won nothing major in 19 years. I guess winning the Div 1 National league doesn't count in their eyes;).

I think the role of McGuinness can be overstated as there were already some fantastic players on the team but as has already been noted, he made a team from the remains of the 2010 team who were hammered by Armagh and made them an All-Ireland winning team in the space of two years. Many of those same players were ready to throw in the towel after that Armagh game.

It never mentioned that McGuinness originally had a 5 year plan to win an All-Ireland but achieved it in 2 obvioulsy.

Not all Donegal supporters loved the type of play from 2011, I hated it and if we had continued to play like that I would have lost interest. Fact is they modified their play this year and were awesome to watch at full-tilt. Many other fans of other counties try to make out Donegal 2012 were a replica of 2011, they weren't.

When it showed a clip of the 2010 Under 21 final it said it was the minor final as well

shiibata

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I hated the voice on the narrator and there were a few minor errors like the narrator saying Donegal had won nothing major in 19 years. I guess winning the Div 1 National league doesn't count in their eyes;).
.

Another blunder was they had 2010 u21 final against Dublin down as the minor final

Oops..beaten too it...

Fr D Maugire

overshoot wrote: »

actually that reminded me... did they say 2011 was donegal's first ulster final in 19 years? i hope they threw in victory but i didnt hear it

Yeah the narrator said first Ulster final in 19 years!!!! That along with the 2010 Minor final caption I also noticed.

K-9

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I hated the voice on the narrator and there were a few minor errors like the narrator saying Donegal had won nothing major in 19 years. I guess winning the Div 1 National league doesn't count in their eyes;).

I missed that one actually but there was 2 other glaring errors.

The U-21 Final was captioned as the minor final and the 2011 Ulster Final was mentioned as our first in 19 years. We lost 5 if I'm counting correctly.

Fr D Maugire

Rochey18 wrote: »

Begrudgery towards who??
Il never have time for him after having to watch the tripe during the semi final against Dublin.

People have a problem with him taking all the praise when there is brilliant footballers like Lacey and Murphy.

But Lacey and Murphy were there before 2011 as well and they lost in the first round in Ulster and hammered by Armagh in qualifiers. Donegal didn't have bad players but there was no belief or direction.

If anyone had said in 2010 that Donegal would be All-Ireland champions within 2 years, you would have been laughed out of the place and thats in Donegal. Its still hard to believe to be honest.

robbiezero

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

But Lacey and Murphy were there before 2011 as well and they lost in the first round in Ulster and hammered by Armagh in qualifiers. Donegal didn't have bad players but there was no belief or direction.

If anyone had said in 2010 that Donegal would be All-Ireland champions within 2 years, you would have been laughed out of the place and thats in Donegal. Its still hard to believe to be honest.

Yep in 2009 they were one of the poorest teams in the country. Shocking against Cork. If Tipp had given that performance I would have been disappointed with it.

overshoot

K-9 wrote: »

I missed that one actually but there was 2 other glaring errors.

The U-21 Final was captioned as the minor final and the 2011 Ulster Final was mentioned as our first in 19 years. We lost 5 if I'm counting correctly.

yea 5... they even showed a clip from '93 at the start:rolleyes:, derry again in 98 and then 3 in the 00s which made is the third most successful ulster team during that decade! championship success during the tyrone/armagh heyday! (a NFL crown and 2 mckenna cups is all we had to show for it!)

Justin10

If my memory serves me correct, Donegal where tipped to contend for an All-Ireland when they won the league.

They had talent but just bottled it, no need for such a radical system just better management.
Just like what Gilroy did for Dublin, got hammered against Meath but believed in what he was doing. No radical changes just better management.
With Dublin you see Brogans, Cluxton Flynn etc getting credit for their success, that is a problem in peoples eyes with Donegal, that McGuinness is the media darling, and just like Jack O'Connor said if he tried it he would be out of a job.

K-9

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

But Lacey and Murphy were there before 2011 as well and they lost in the first round in Ulster and hammered by Armagh in qualifiers. Donegal didn't have bad players but there was no belief or direction.

If anyone had said in 2010 that Donegal would be All-Ireland champions within 2 years, you would have been laughed out of the place and thats in Donegal. Its still hard to believe to be honest.

Donegal always had talented footballers, a great manager like McEniff had Sweeney, Devenney, McGuinness himself, Hegarty, Gildea, Toye etc. Our record in the qualifiers is up there with the best of them. Talent is great but if you don't have the attitude, the preparation and the management, you're just another "I coulda been a contender" story.

The Armagh game is cited but a 15/16 point hammering to Cork in 09 is far more telling. Nice couple of wins along the way but fodder for the big boys, same ould story.

I don't believe we'd have won the AI except for 2011, it was essential that Donegal get a mindset of being hard to beat. For me he took Tyrone's system in 03 and made it more defensive, Tyrone attracted similar criticism then and football survived.

K-9

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Cheers lads - won't waste my time on it so! Was trying to find the documentary about the Dublin ladies gaelic from a few years ago, and stumbled on this one instead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv2EbjhAf-I

Ah hard to match that.

Few factual glitches aside I thought the slow mo parts worked overall, a bit cringey but they do show the physicality of the game, the pressure players are under and how it isn't that easy to spot the obvious pass we see on a television or actually watching a game (something Lacey invariably does do).

The McFadden goal in the final was showed brilliantly. The physical challenges leading up to it, McBreartys shot hitting the post, the ball just outside the defenders grasp, goalkeeper getting a slight touch on it. Soemtimes it isn't even a matter of inches.

WesternZulu

Wasn't pleasant viewing from a Mayo point of view.

Enjoyed it all up until the final but it unexpectedly opened up some wounds.

Fr Tod Umptious

WesternZulu wrote: »

Wasn't pleasant viewing from a Mayo point of view.

Enjoyed it all up until the final but it unexpectedly opened up some wounds.

And that's why I did not watch it, and will never watch it

nice_guy80

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And that's why I did not watch it, and will never watch it

here, stick on the 2006 or 2004 All Ireland final!
or the 1996 or 1997 finals. the 1989 final is also a corker.

great viewing.

Neeson

On again on the rte news channel now