The psychology of jumping red lights

Ninap

Why is it that the average driver is more than happy to speed through a light changing from amber to red, which is highly dangerous behaviour, and yet will sit happily at a red light at a deserted junction at night and not dream of breaking the light, even though there is no other road user for miles around?

recyclebin

It would be easier to explaining to the guard why you went through a changing light rather than a solid red.

An amber light means that you must not go beyond the stop line or, if there is no stop line, beyond the light. However, you may go on if you are so close to the line or the light when the amber light first appears that stopping would be dangerous.

Also the average driver probably isn't in a rush in the middle of the night.

keithclancy

Ninap wrote: »

Why is it that the average driver is more than happy to speed through a light changing from amber to red, which is highly dangerous behaviour, and yet will sit happily at a red light at a deserted junction at night and not dream of breaking the light, even though there is no other road user for miles around?

Breaking a light, well thats just because they think they can make it.

Broke a red light in Belgium before, no car for miles around. (I honestly thought the lights were faulty since they'd been red for 5 minutes)

Got around 200 meters down the road before the cops who were hiding on a slip road caught up with me.

Same as, why not break the speed limit when its a wide clear road with nobody around.

Because you might get caught.

Ninap

I'm not sure if it's as simple as a fear of getting caught. Most drivers seem to think going through on amber/red is morally ok, even though they are putting themselves and others at significant risk. Whereas deliberately breaking a light, even with no one around, is perceived as consciously breaking the law. Without wishing to get into a debate about cycling, cyclists probably have a better innate understanding of the issues: they (generally) break lights when they feel it is safe, but would rarely run through an orange light as there is considerable risk involved.

djimi

Why exactly is there more risk to running an amber light? If you have an amber light it means that everyone else is red. If you have a red light it means someone else has a green or at best amber...

Ninap

djimi wrote: »

Why exactly is there more risk to running an amber light? If you have an amber light it means that everyone else is red. If you have a red light it means someone else has a green or at best amber...

Well, most times I see it (which is every day), people run through on amber / red, accelerating while they're doing it. I've seen pedestrians about to step out on the road and have to jump back because of a car speeding through, and a cyclist nearly creamed at a junction recently. People speed through on amber / red at busy junctions all the time. But the same driver will sit at a red in the middle of the night when no one's around.

djimi

Ninap wrote: »

Well, most times I see it (which is every day), people run through on amber / red, accelerating while they're doing it. I've seen pedestrians about to step out on the road and have to jump back because of a car speeding through, and a cyclist nearly creamed at a junction recently. People speed through on amber / red at busy junctions all the time. But the same driver will sit at a red in the middle of the night when no one's around.

To a pedestrian waiting to cross or a car waiting at red the amber light is no different than a green light. I get the point about cars tending to speed up somewhat to "make the amber light", but anyone waiting to cross or whatever must assume that an oncoming car will go through an amber light.

Iwannahurl

Ninap wrote: »

Why is it that the average driver is more than happy to speed through a light changing from amber to red, which is highly dangerous behaviour, and yet will sit happily at a red light at a deserted junction at night and not dream of breaking the light, even though there is no other road user for miles around?

The amber issue is moot. The psychology question here has more to do with the apparent taboo of breaking a red light versus the comparative acceptability of speeding on either side of it.

There are drivers who happily race from one set of traffic signals to another at night, dutifully waiting at each red light they encounter.

What's that all about?

Ninap

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The amber issue is moot. The psychology question here has more to do with the apparent taboo of breaking a red light versus the comparative acceptability of speeding on either side of it.

There are drivers who happily race from one set of traffic signals to another at night, dutifully waiting at each red light they encounter.

What's that all about?

Yup, that's my point.

Victor

Ninap wrote: »

But the same driver will sit at a red in the middle of the night when no one's around.

Are we certain they are the same people?

SeanW

I can only speak for myself, I don't race through on ambers unless I'm very close to the junction, i.e. too close to stop safely.
As for "dutifully waiting at each red light" one example is pedestrian crossings reds for traffic are matched by greens for pedestrians. As a pedestrian myself I've sometimes dashed across a road because I see a green man, as a motorist I assume that a pedestrian could do the same and as such always wait for the lights to change.

It's just safe driving.

swimming in a sea

I've done a lot of night driving around Ireland in the past and would not break a red light for the simple reason a policeman might be hiding around the corner, anyways at night roads are deserted so you make such great time its hardly worth it.

seamus

There's an inherent tolerance of jumping amber lights, because in most cases when people are learning to drive they're taught that amber means, "You should stop if it'll be red by the time you get there, but if you can make it through on the amber, you're OK".

Red means stop. Amber means speed up or you'll have to stop. That's the example that older drivers set for younger drivers, and from what I recall of driving lessons (which to be fair were 12 years ago now for me), stopping on amber was only something you had to do for the test, in real driving it's "too dangerous" or similar nonsense.

djimi

In fairness, in real world driving stopping on an amber light is pretty dangerous; do it often enough and you will get someone smash into the back of you. Its one of those situations where reality outweighs the legality of the situation. Imo you are more likely to be involved in an accident by stopping at an amber light than you are if you go through it.

Corkbah

djimi wrote: »

In fairness, in real world driving stopping on an amber light is pretty dangerous; do it often enough and you will get someone smash into the back of you. Its one of those situations where reality outweighs the legality of the situation. Imo you are more likely to be involved in an accident by stopping at an amber light than you are if you go through it.

you dont drive much do you !!

if motorists drove correctly and stopped on amber there would be less crashes - you might have a spike at the start but thats due to many motorists simply not paying attention....following on from that ...if the gardai enforced the driving in bus lanes and other motoring offences there would be less accidents as well.....so its all proportional...if drivers drive properly and if the laws are enforced...no traffic accidents !!(In theory)

djimi

Corkbah wrote: »

you dont drive much do you !!

if motorists drove correctly and stopped on amber there would be less crashes - you might have a spike at the start but thats due to many motorists simply not paying attention.

Motorists dont drive correctly; there is no point in going on about ifs, buts or maybes. Im not saying what should happen; Im saying what does happen, and I know from experience (of driving every day for over a decade) that if I stopped dead at an amber light it would not be long before someone ran up the back of me. Doesnt mean I nail the throttle in an effort to get through every amber, but you have to weigh up the risk associated with every situation, and do whatever it takes to avoid an accident.

Tea 1000

djimi wrote: »

Motorists dont drive correctly; there is no point in going on about ifs, buts or maybes. Im not saying what should happen; Im saying what does happen, and I know from experience (of driving every day for over a decade) that if I stopped dead at an amber light it would not be long before someone ran up the back of me. Doesnt mean I nail the throttle in an effort to get through every amber, but you have to weigh up the risk associated with every situation, and do whatever it takes to avoid an accident.

Unless you slammed on at an amber light, the no one should go up your ass. If they do, then chances are they'd have done it on red too.
The amount of times I've crossed an amber light which was changing to red and I knew I was pushing the limit a bit, then I'd look in my mirror and not only the car behind followed, but two cars after him again always shocks me!

MrDerp

Ninap wrote: »

Why is it that the average driver is more than happy to speed through a light changing from amber to red, which is highly dangerous behaviour, and yet will sit happily at a red light at a deserted junction at night and not dream of breaking the light, even though there is no other road user for miles around?

You'll be happy to know I know longer speed through amber lights.

The malaise was cured by getting snapped at the other side of the junction and earning 2 points and a fixed penalty notice for speeding.

Sesshoumaru

Ninap wrote: »

Why is it that the average driver is more than happy to speed through a light changing from amber to red, which is highly dangerous behaviour, and yet will sit happily at a red light at a deserted junction at night and not dream of breaking the light, even though there is no other road user for miles around?

I wouldn't say that, there are one or two junctions on my daily commute where people go through red lights with seemingly no hesitation. This junction being a prime example.

http://goo.gl/maps/UywjX

beaner88

Ninap wrote: »

Why is it that the average driver is more than happy to speed through a light changing from amber to red, which is highly dangerous behaviour, and yet will sit happily at a red light at a deserted junction at night and not dream of breaking the light, even though there is no other road user for miles around?

I break lots of lights like this in the early hours. Always check to make sure no potential cops around!

djimi

The majority of lights that I come across have sensors now, so at night if you are sitting at a red at a clear junction then chances are you wont be sitting there long. The junctions that dont have sensors tend to be bigger ones where you cant take a chance either way.

Sesshoumaru

djimi wrote: »

The majority of lights that I come across have sensors now, so at night if you are sitting at a red at a clear junction then chances are you wont be sitting there long. The junctions that dont have sensors tend to be bigger ones where you cant take a chance either way.

It's happened to me a few times in the past at night, my motorcycle did't register on the sensor. So in the end I have to break the red light!

djimi

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It's happened to me a few times in the past at night, my motorcycle did't register on the sensor. So in the end I have to break the red light!

Yeah I can see that as a problem on a bike alright. There is a set of lights that I encounter at night a bit also (the back exit to Whitewater in Newbridge) where the sensor has a habit of not triggering also; after ten minutes of sitting at a red light you dont have much choice but to just go!

Ninap

many continental cities switch all lights to flashing amber at night - everyone is expected to proceed with caution. Another side note - in Paris the amber is extremely short (and the junctions tend to be wide). Almost no one speeds through on amber. Here, people factor in the long amber, and the gap between turning to red and the other direction going green.

gurramok

Local knowledge counts as well in the psychology, the chance of getting caught is extremely low if you know the likelihood of there being a Garda watching said lights in the middle of the night. Its easier to be caught in a village\town centre area than in a housing estate on the outskirts for example where minor roads meet.

Victor

A few things.
* The psychology if being 'first' that also makes people overtake needlessly or prevent other people from over-taking.
* The psychology of 'keep moving'. People fail to appreciate that if they are caught by traffic lights that an empty space often forms ahead of them, which can be used for more even, more economical, safer driving.
* Running an overly-pregnant orange / red is seen as pushing at the edge of the rules. Driving through a red (from stop) is seen as breaking the rules.

Iwannahurl

beaner88 wrote: »

I break lots of lights like this in the early hours. Always check to make sure no potential cops around!

As opposed to actual ones?

Too many of the "potential" variety around for my liking...