TCD - disgraceful disorganisation

dropinthocean

I'm in final year now. When I began studying at TCD, there was a huge lack of organisation, often only finding out at the last minute where lectures were held, or how to find my way around campus. We would often have to wait for a long time after lectures to get notes, and often we would get none. It was not uncommon for lecturers not to turn up and only finding out 15 mins after the lecture was due to start.

As a younger more naive student, I assumed this kind of uncertainty and disorganisation was just the way things were in a university that had about 15000 students. Maybe it was very difficult to "sort things out" for so many people at once. Or maybe it was just the way they treated "freshers" and things would certainly improve once I reached more senior years.

Bullsh!t

In final year, things are as bad as ever. They have changed nothing. Still, with only a few months left in college, I have to balance the probability of going in for a lecture that may or may not happen with the certainty of staying at home to study. The timetable (which we received BEFORE we started which is a huge surprise) is a bit of a shambles and takes a significant amount of time and effort to interpret. There is also "another timetable which will be sent out at a later date."

I have completely lost my faith in the college and many of my classmates are in agreement. I often feel like I am left teaching myself. It seems that I turn up on the first day to register, pay the university for the oppurtunity to teach myself, and attend at the end of the year to sit my exams. Any extra teaching offered by the university feels more like a privilege than an expectation. I really expected more from a university with the international reputation enjoyed by TCD.

I would go out of my way to avoid studying a masters in TCD, and would advise undergraduates to steer clear.
Yes, Trinity has prestiege and history and a beautiful campus. However, I believe that it is the momentum of this prestiege gained from the past that keeps students flocking to Trinity. Trinity must improve itself or before they know it, their international ranking will plummet. 100+ students regularly turning up for a lecture which doesn't happen for any reason is not acceptable.

Is lack of organisation a college-wide phenomenom or did I just get unlucky with my choice of course?

snappieT

This all sounds like a department-specific problem, rather than TCD wide. Timetables are set at a department/school level, and while it seems that yours is a mess (may I ask which?), that may not be the general rule.

Bears and Vodka

I'm in JF BESS (yes, BESS, get over it) and timetables are working well. Obviously there was that confusion in September when my.tcd.ie didn't work but since that was sorted everything was fine. The few times a lecturer fell ill or could not attend we were notified ASAP by email, usually the night before. Yes, sometimes people don't check their email in the morning and still come but that happens. My departments are Economics, Sociology, Political Science, Russian and Slavonic Studies and School of Business.

newmug

Happened me in DIT in my College years. I thought I was the only one. I ended up absolutely HATING college because of it. Out of the 80 people who started my course, only 10 graduated. Completely unacceptable stuff.

Extrasupervery

The School of Nursing are fairly organised, so I'd say it does come down more to your school than the university at large. It's crap that you had such a bad experience, hopefully organisation in your course will get their **** together.

amen

Didn't go to TCD but

We would often have to wait for a long time after lectures to get notes

you are Third Level student and you want notes from the lecturer after the lecture? Go the Library and read a book(s). Learn, ask questions, attend tutorials etc.

Third Leve is about independent learning not secondary school where you are spoon fed.

What will you do when working next year and you are asked to learn something new/research an area? Ask you boss for notes?

Out of the 80 people who started my course, only 10 graduated

College is meant to be heard. Its not school. While the college may be at faulty perhaps people didn't study enough ? May be they didn't like the course.

stealinhorses

Yeah, it can sometimes be messy, but it's hardly a reason to avoid Trinity at all costs.

Timetabling problems sometimes arise for the science courses, but usually this just means you go to the maths/chem/whatever tutorial suits your timetable instead.

In my 2 years so far, I can recall maybe 2 instances when a lecturer completely didn't turn up for a class.

For example, one of the lecturers for SF chemistry had to deal with a family bereavement the day before they were supposed to start a new lecture course with us. The next day, we already had two other lecturers lined up to teach the course with their own notes from previous years of teaching the course, that they eventually combined into a course that they split in half between the two of them and everything worked out fine.

lucernarian

amen wrote: »

Didn't go to TCD but

you are Third Level student and you want notes from the lecturer after the lecture? Go the Library and read a book(s). Learn, ask questions, attend tutorials etc.

Third Leve is about independent learning not secondary school where you are spoon fed.

What will you do when working next year and you are asked to learn something new/research an area? Ask you boss for notes?



College is meant to be heard. Its not school. While the college may be at faulty perhaps people didn't study enough ? May be they didn't like the course.

Patronising post of the year. There are many circumstances where pictures or diagrams are examinable material. Especially where these have also been created by the lecturer, then having said lecture slide for further studies is of paramount importance.

The comparison between collegiate, independent learning and producing work (i.e. for an income) for an employer is a lazy and facile argument. The nature of preperation and knowledge required for a specific exam is distinct. Where only the knowledge that is asked for on the exam script will avail a student. Luck can come into the assessment of a student's knowledge and indeed upon the whims of a particular lecturer to assess material that may have been poorly supplied or was contradictory. While in employment (or indeed in thesis or project work), a specific goal is set which draws on your experience and knowledge. The goal can otherwise be achieved by any reasonable and fair means.

TL;DR: The first rhetorical question is facile nonsense. And calling third level education "independent" is really just an illusion while lecturers are also in charge of the specific questions in formal exams (among other reasons). I'm not saying that is a negative, per se. It's just inevitable that some students will fare poorly in structured exams despite being knowledgeable or dilligent. Exam questions can come down to the whims of a bad lecturer.

newmug

amen wrote: »

Third Leve is about independent learning not secondary school where you are spoon fed.

Its about narrowing down to a specific subject, and being excellent in that area, to the point that you are awarded a degree level qualification in that field. The difference between secondary and third level education is the expectation that your instructors (call them tutors, teachers, lecturers, whatever) are proven to have the expertice and credentials to prepare you for professional level entry into your chosen discipline, as opposed to introductory level, which is what you get in secondary school.

amen wrote: »

College is meant to be heard. Its not school. While the college may be at faulty perhaps people didn't study enough ? May be they didn't like the course.

Its meant to be hard because of the volume of work and the intensity of taking a huge leap in the level of understanding of your subject, not because incompetant lecturers dont turn up on time. Imagine doing that in the workplace.

partyatmygaff

dropinthocean wrote: »

Is lack of organisation a college-wide phenomenom or did I just get unlucky with my choice of course?

It must just be your course. The School of Pharmacy at least is very well-organised. Only one lecture so far this year rescheduled without notice.

amen wrote: »

you are Third Level student and you want notes from the lecturer after the lecture? Go the Library and read a book(s). Learn, ask questions, attend tutorials etc.

I'm not saying I know how things work in every course but in mine at least, I feel the lecture slides serve as a kind of detailed syllabus for the module. Without them, it's nowhere near as easy to know exactly what you need to learn and what you need to focus on.

I know it's "Third level and it's meant to be difficult" but the very least I would expect from my examiners is for them to make it perfectly clear what exactly we're being examined on. If not the lecture slides themselves, at the very least a course outline.

Larianne

I think it depends on the school you're in.

Having said that, I was speaking to UCD students and their school didn't seem much better than ours.

Best thing is to have a really good class rep and make sure they keep constant contact with the school.

Anita Blow

Our school's quite good I think. There is of course one notable exception

languagenerd

As others have said, it really depends on your school and department. In TSM, I was part of two departments and one was more organised than the other. It can also be down to individual lecturers - even if the department is really organised and brilliant at communicating stuff on time, if one particular lecturer only lets the secretary know ten minutes before a class that they're not coming in, then it's not exactly the department's/college's fault. I don't think TCD are great at organisation (considering the fiasco with my.tcd.ie) but from listening to my friends, other universities aren't much better, and as such, I wouldn't personally base my decision of where to go on that note alone.

Have you tried complaining to the school/students union/senior tutor? Have your class reps done anything? If there is an ongoing problem with a particular class being cancelled, then make it known - if it happens once it's bad, all term is just a joke.

As for lecture notes... we don't get ANY notes from lecturers in my course!

Ionax

dropinthocean wrote: »

Yes, Trinity has prestiege and history and a beautiful campus. However, I believe that it is the momentum of this prestiege gained from the past that keeps students flocking to Trinity.

Agreed.

icedtea

So what course is this? In Science it happens very rarely, and when a lecture is cancelled you usually know well in advance

bootybouncer

Full of overpaid staff too....................ridiculous money the majority of them are on

Ionax

bootybouncer wrote: »

Full of overpaid staff too....................ridiculous money the majority of them are on

In fairness, most (I don't exxagerate) of that goes back to the government on tax.

srsly78

icedtea wrote: »

So what course is this? In Science it happens very rarely, and when a lecture is cancelled you usually know well in advance

Science in TCD is even worse. When I was doing the SS Superconductor course a few years ago a certain professor basically fecked off abroad to do conferences and wasn't present for 75% of the lectures. We got some Chinese postgrad who basically did not speak English instead.

Lawliet

icedtea wrote: »

So what course is this? In Science it happens very rarely, and when a lecture is cancelled you usually know well in advance

I wouldn't use science as an example of good organisation; last year there was a lecture given to ten students in Goldsmith while 250 of us were in another theater. And that's just one of many, many mess ups they made.

icedtea

Well I'm JF so obviously I can't speak for last year but so far this year has been pretty good in terms of organisation.

Lenmeister

srsly78 wrote: »

Science in TCD is even worse. When I was doing the SS Superconductor course a few years ago a certain professor basically fecked off abroad to do conferences and wasn't present for 75% of the lectures. We got some Chinese postgrad who basically did not speak English instead.

Sorry to go off point here but how did you get on after that course? I'm wondering what the job market is like and how the pay is. I can't imagine many superconductor companies being based in Ireland. Though I don't know that much about the industry.

srsly78

That was just a module in the Physics course. Fortunately I am not let near any superconductors now and work as a software engineer.

Lenmeister

Ahh ok cheers

smcelhinney

bootybouncer wrote: »

Full of overpaid staff too....................ridiculous money the majority of them are on

What's your basis for this?

srsly78

smcelhinney wrote: »

What's your basis for this?

Comparison between Irish academic wages and those in neighbouring countries.

smcelhinney

Not to be pedantic, but poster said "staff", not academics. Academics are not responsible for course administration (which is essentially what this post is about).

Compare these administrative staff wages with TCD administrative wages and you'll find that they certainly fall short.

blucey

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Patronising post of the year. There are many circumstances where pictures or diagrams are examinable material. Especially where these have also been created by the lecturer, then having said lecture slide for further studies is of paramount importance.

The comparison between collegiate, independent learning and producing work (i.e. for an income) for an employer is a lazy and facile argument. The nature of preperation and knowledge required for a specific exam is distinct. Where only the knowledge that is asked for on the exam script will avail a student. Luck can come into the assessment of a student's knowledge and indeed upon the whims of a particular lecturer to assess material that may have been poorly supplied or was contradictory. While in employment (or indeed in thesis or project work), a specific goal is set which draws on your experience and knowledge. The goal can otherwise be achieved by any reasonable and fair means.

TL;DR: The first rhetorical question is facile nonsense. And calling third level education "independent" is really just an illusion while lecturers are also in charge of the specific questions in formal exams (among other reasons). I'm not saying that is a negative, per se. It's just inevitable that some students will fare poorly in structured exams despite being knowledgeable or dilligent. Exam questions can come down to the whims of a bad lecturer.

except of course, they cant. Why? well, because every question we propose is sent to the xternal examiner (each course/module has one) along with the marking scheme, and they can bind or loose. So, no, they cant.

lucernarian

blucey wrote: »

except of course, they cant. Why? well, because every question we propose is sent to the xternal examiner (each course/module has one) along with the marking scheme, and they can bind or loose. So, no, they cant.

External examiners that are... chosen by the departments themselves in the cases that I'm aware. So not entirely independent. Especially if the external examiner happened to be a former staff member of the department! Also, marking schemes are not as useful in some subjects particularly where a subjective emphasis is placed on an answer. Sometimes essay-type answers can come down to the expression of an idea or opinion and the relevance of any evidence used to back an idea up could be called into question. Depending on the marker's own judgement, of course:)