Difficult decision made, what if any assistance may be available?

wihstth

Hi,

I would like some sound advice please.

I discovered at the beginning of June 2012 that my partner of 13 years had been having an affair with another man. I was stunned at the time of the discovery but did not confront her straight away. Instead I set about trying to find out as much about it as I could before confronting her.

I discovered the other man works in the same company as her and they had been communicating with each other outside of work since April 2011 and had begun a physical affair around Dec 2011.

Due to a number of social and family events (Booked family holidays and birthdays) I put off confronting my cheating partner until Sept 2012. By then I had considerable proof of her infidelity. When I did confront her I took her away over night to a hotel so that there would be no chance of interruption by friends or family calling to the house or our 3yr son waking up.

I kept my cool, remained calm, no shouting or ranting or name calling and no violence. I said my piece and had one simple proposition for her. To see if we could live together as housemates as I do not want to disrupt my little boys life in any way.

We had many long chats in the nights following our confrontation. She never expressed any sincere remorse or regret and even went as far to admit to me she has been unfaithful to every partner she has ever been with, and she was surprised she lasted 13yr before she was unfaithful to me.

I am in counselling the last few months, I can only afford one session a month but it is helping, the rage and anger is subsiding now. All I feel most days now is sad for her, that perhaps one day she will realise what her actions have done. And for the other man I have nothing but pity. He wants to leave his wife and two young kids to be with a woman like her.

Sorry for the rant, but I have made a decision over Christmas. I have proof that she is still contacting the other man and has even secretly meet with him for sex. They have even secretly texted and talked on the phone with each other several times over the Christmas holiday...

I have tried my best to rebuild and 'FIX' things and for a short while believed things had changed, but now I know the truth that she has not stopped and never wanted to stop seeing him and wanting to be with him.

So my decision is I will move out of the house we are both currently renting in the new year. There is no point in remaining here any further, I deserve better then her and I think that by remaining here knowing she is still cheating on me and knowing she simply does not want to cut this man out of her life that I will ultimately do myself more harm emotionally and psychologically and that will in the end not be good for my son.

We are both working in Dublin, she is on a four day week since having our son so she works max 30Hrs / week. I work full time. Currently we rent our own house outside of Dublin and rent in Dublin, the commute after two years was just too long and expensive, so for quality of live we moved back to Dublin. As our home is currently worth less than 50% of our mortgage we are stuck with it for now.

Our rental income does not cover the mortgage so we need to top it up to make the mortgage, we also have the rent on the house we live in in Dublin, our son's creche fees and all other ancillary bills and expenses most average people would have, we run one car.

So my question(s) are below:

We are currently just about making ends meet, IF I move out, what if any assistance could my soon to be EX-partner be eligible to apply for?

I am hoping to rent an apartment by myself near his creche and soon to be school and also near my job with the hope of sharing joint custody of my little boy. Relations with his mother at the moment are still amicable and most days I just hold my tongue and never tell her what I'm really thinking or feeling, because I know in the end any court will always side with the mother and she knows that!!

So I smile and keep the peace.. what else can I do.

I have spent the last few days crunching numbers and reworking budgets... but so far I can't see any way of me affording to rent an apartment and pay her some kind of maintenance payment (which I have no problem doing) also paying the mortgage and everything else.....

At the moment the extra money needed to afford me to move out and change my circumstances for the better is simply is not there. I have thought of the consequences of me leaving the family home, of what my son might think and ask, and even of her moving in the other man and of him getting the opportunity to form and develop a relationship with my son!!!!

Life is not fair in so many ways.... but this is the next step I need to take to move on with my life without her. Of course she will not want me to move out... why would she.... I help pay the bills and rent and keep the house maintained... why wouldn't she want to keep everything just as is it....

I know there is a sticky at the top of this forum with tons of useful links in it and I have looked at them, I'll look more over the coming days.

But if anyone else has been in a similar situation is there any financial assistance or procedure available to lone parents when their partner leaves the home?

I want to be able to set the cogs in motion before I tell her I've decided to move out.

Sorry for such a long post.

Thanks for Reading.

Stheno

The only financial aid you may get is the one parent tax credit.

You will be liable to pay maintenance for your son, unless you agree a 50/50 custody arrangement, and if your spouse earns less than you and is worse off due to you leaving, she may be entitled to maintenance from you.

I'd suggest mediation to work out an agreement between yourselves, best of luck, it's a tough road.

By far the easiest solution financially is if you can co exist in the same house to be honest, but that's very very hard to do. I did it for about a year (no kids involved)

Offy

wihstth wrote: »

Hi,

I would like some sound advice please.

I discovered at the beginning of June 2012 that my partner of 13 years had been having an affair with another man. I was stunned at the time of the discovery but did not confront her straight away. Instead I set about trying to find out as much about it as I could before confronting her.

I discovered the other man works in the same company as her and they had been communicating with each other outside of work since April 2011 and had begun a physical affair around Dec 2011.

Due to a number of social and family events (Booked family holidays and birthdays) I put off confronting my cheating partner until Sept 2012. By then I had considerable proof of her infidelity. When I did confront her I took her away over night to a hotel so that there would be no chance of interruption by friends or family calling to the house or our 3yr son waking up.

I kept my cool, remained calm, no shouting or ranting or name calling and no violence. I said my piece and had one simple proposition for her. To see if we could live together as housemates as I do not want to disrupt my little boys life in any way.

We had many long chats in the nights following our confrontation. She never expressed any sincere remorse or regret and even went as far to admit to me she has been unfaithful to every partner she has ever been with, and she was surprised she lasted 13yr before she was unfaithful to me.

I am in counselling the last few months, I can only afford one session a month but it is helping, the rage and anger is subsiding now. All I feel most days now is sad for her, that perhaps one day she will realise what her actions have done. And for the other man I have nothing but pity. He wants to leave his wife and two young kids to be with a woman like her.

Sorry for the rant, but I have made a decision over Christmas. I have proof that she is still contacting the other man and has even secretly meet with him for sex. They have even secretly texted and talked on the phone with each other several times over the Christmas holiday...

I have tried my best to rebuild and 'FIX' things and for a short while believed things had changed, but now I know the truth that she has not stopped and never wanted to stop seeing him and wanting to be with him.

So my decision is I will move out of the house we are both currently renting in the new year. There is no point in remaining here any further, I deserve better then her and I think that by remaining here knowing she is still cheating on me and knowing she simply does not want to cut this man out of her life that I will ultimately do myself more harm emotionally and psychologically and that will in the end not be good for my son.

We are both working in Dublin, she is on a four day week since having our son so she works max 30Hrs / week. I work full time. Currently we rent our own house outside of Dublin and rent in Dublin, the commute after two years was just too long and expensive, so for quality of live we moved back to Dublin. As our home is currently worth less than 50% of our mortgage we are stuck with it for now.

Our rental income does not cover the mortgage so we need to top it up to make the mortgage, we also have the rent on the house we live in in Dublin, our son's creche fees and all other ancillary bills and expenses most average people would have, we run one car.

So my question(s) are below:

We are currently just about making ends meet, IF I move out, what if any assistance could my soon to be EX-partner be eligible to apply for?

I am hoping to rent an apartment by myself near his creche and soon to be school and also near my job with the hope of sharing joint custody of my little boy. Relations with his mother at the moment are still amicable and most days I just hold my tongue and never tell her what I'm really thinking or feeling, because I know in the end any court will always side with the mother and she knows that!!

So I smile and keep the peace.. what else can I do.

I have spent the last few days crunching numbers and reworking budgets... but so far I can't see any way of me affording to rent an apartment and pay her some kind of maintenance payment (which I have no problem doing) also paying the mortgage and everything else.....

At the moment the extra money needed to afford me to move out and change my circumstances for the better is simply is not there. I have thought of the consequences of me leaving the family home, of what my son might think and ask, and even of her moving in the other man and of him getting the opportunity to form and develop a relationship with my son!!!!

Life is not fair in so many ways.... but this is the next step I need to take to move on with my life without her. Of course she will not want me to move out... why would she.... I help pay the bills and rent and keep the house maintained... why wouldn't she want to keep everything just as is it....

I know there is a sticky at the top of this forum with tons of useful links in it and I have looked at them, I'll look more over the coming days.

But if anyone else has been in a similar situation is there any financial assistance or procedure available to lone parents when their partner leaves the home?

I want to be able to set the cogs in motion before I tell her I've decided to move out.

Sorry for such a long post.

Thanks for Reading.

Before you take any action please talk to a solicitor.
Accept no other advice BEFORE you talk to one, this is very important as moral and ethical advice means nothing in a court of law. I hope things go easy for you.

sffc

Just to be clear OP are you married to your ex?

ResearchWill

I am not going to comment on your situation as you have that we'll thought out. In relation to support. Well you ex may depending on income be entitled to single parent payment, (more than likely not if shared custody) but worth looking into, she and you may be entitled to Family Income Supplement, (it still surprises me the number of people who do not know they are entitled to this)

There may be other payments best bet is to do a proper budget for yourself and ex and approach SW and citizens advice, to ascertain what you may be entitled to.

wihstth

Hi,

Thanks for the advice so far, I honestly wasn't expecting any replies so quickly. I know I also need sound legal advice and I will be getting that ASAP next week.

Some more information for clarity, we are NOT married, engaged for over 10 years but never seemed to have enough money to get married, probably a good thing now....

We both earn Circa 30K I'm just over it, she was on around 35K but as she has dropped permanently to a 4 day week her salary has reduced to about 28K.

I was guessing that as we both have earnings, the lone parent allowance would be ruled out, also the fact we actually have a house of our own may not help in terms of seeking any rental assistance.

I will look further at the FIS as I believe that maybe something one of us could get.

I should point out I'm not asking about this to seek a purely financial gain due to my circumstances, if any assistance were to be available I'd prefer it to go towards keeping my son at least 50% based in his current home with as little disruption to his life as possible.

Two of you mentioned I would not be obligated to pay maintenance where 50/50 joint custody were agreed? This is precisely the circumstance I want to end up with. I have no desire to abandon my son or ignore any of my responsibilities to his welfare. I want to share joint custody. To me every other weekend and Wednesday evenings is NOT acceptable. I will be seeking 50/50 both financial and time.

And this raises another question....

As we never married I legally have zero custodial rights to my own son... I did ask her to sign a joint Guardianship form with me in a local Solicitors office when I initially confronted her back in Sept. At the time she fully agreed to do that and made it clear she would never stop me from seeing my son or being in his life. Stupidly I still have this form in the house unsigned, I will ask her again next year to sign this form with me.

However as no copies of this form are keep on record with the solicitors, (it will be purely up to me to keep it somewhere safe) I have begun to wonder does it actually have any teeth. For example..... A few of you have advised I may not need to pay maintenance where joint 50/50 custody has been agreed and arranged amicably between both parties.... BUT what if she realises that without any maintenance from me she may find it harder financially on her own... Could she refuse 50/50 joint custody even if she had previously signed the joint Guardianship form, and then because she is becomes the main Guardian of the child she can demand a maintenance payment from me?????

Any advice or help would be appreciated, I'm just starting to focus on this now, truth be told I was trying to put it off for as long as possible just to enjoy Christmas in the house with the little fella. But the cold light of a new year brings the realisation of the horrible situation my partner has created and what she just expects me to deal with and accept.

But no more, time to make some serious changes... I just know I need to tread carefully at this point, as it seems that everything I am learning about this entire process favours the mother...

wuzziwig

Hi wihstth,

Sorry to hear you are going through this difficult situation. I to would recommend getting proper legal advice. A solicitor will also be able to point you in the right direction for sorting out the financial side of things.

I'm in a similar situation myself except I'm trying to separate from an alcoholic husband. I've lived 2 years of sheer hell with him and I too decided over Christmas that enough was enough. We have three kids (10, 7 and 3) so it has been a difficult decision but I cannot carry on like this anymore. He is in total denial that he has a drink problem and I've done as much as I can to help him. There is no way we can live in the same house together but he won't move out. I'm considering taking the three kids and moving ourselves just to be away from him. Anyway, getting to my point, I'm ringing a solicitor on Wednesday morning and getting advice on where to go from here. I've had close family and friends give me all the well meaning advice in the world but you need to do this properly so a solicitor is the only way.

Best of luck and I hope everything works out for you.

sffc

Two points OP - 50/50 access and joint custody are two separate things. Secondly whats good for you may not and often isnt good for a child. 50/50 access being a prime example .

wihstth

Hi sffc,

I understand the difference between the two, but thanks for reminding me and pointing out what's most important... Even if it has put a serious dent in my evening.

The more I think about it forcing a three year old to suddenly have two homes and two bedrooms and two beds was not something I had considered up till now. I just didn't see why I should be the one to lose out on all the 'little moments' you have raising your child. He is just starting to really speak now and his personality is great, a total cheeky messer.

Why should I miss out on all the fun stuff just because his mother can't keep her legs closed for some dickhead that she's convinced is her soulmate and just 'gets her' like no one else can..... It's a crock of ****.....

Thanks everyone for the advice, I've found a couple of solicitors to ring, gona start making calls on Wednesday.

sffc

wihstth wrote: »

Hi sffc,

I understand the difference between the two, but thanks for reminding me and pointing out what's most important... Even if it has put a serious dent in my evening.

The more I think about it forcing a three year old to suddenly have two homes and two bedrooms and two beds was not something I had considered up till now. I just didn't see why I should be the one to lose out on all the 'little moments' you have raising your child. He is just starting to really speak now and his personality is great, a total cheeky messer.

Why should I miss out on all the fun stuff just because his mother can't keep her legs closed for some dickhead that she's convinced is her soulmate and just 'gets her' like no one else can..... It's a crock of ****.....

Thanks everyone for the advice, I've found a couple of solicitors to ring, gona start making calls on Wednesday.

I'm separated myself so know where you are coming from. Sorry to be so blunt . You are a strong guy to take the point on board. Next thing is to drop the abuse - make the love of your child greater than your hate of each other ..

ash23

I am an unmarried single parent who owns a house with an ex partner and has a child.

First off there won't be any help with rent for either of you, nor will either of you be able to apply for local authority housing as you don't have a housing need because you own a house. You also won't be able to claim tax relief on your rents if you have or are claiming tax relief on your mortgage.

Both of you are responsible for 50% of the mortgage on the property you own jointly and both of you have the right to live in the property. Either of you can force a sale by going to court. So if it's being rented out and there is a balance on the mortgage, you're each responsible for 50% of it.

As someone earning roughly what your ex earns, I am not eligible for One parent family payment but I do get Family Income supplement which is about €20e per week - if she earns under €505 net per week she should be able to claim something. If she earns over that, she can't. I don't get back to school payment or anything else although I do have a medical card and I also claim the one parent family tax credit. I think I only have my medical card still because I have an illness.

I don't get maintenance from my daughters father. Any maintenance you may pay will go towards her means test for FIS and medical card.

I can't advise re: custody as my daughters father has never wanted custody so that's not a situation I've been in.

Fact of the matter is OP, I earn similar to her and have been on my own for 4 years. I pay rent, run a car, pay my bills and childcare with no support from another parent and bear 100% of my childs costs.
Now I don't live in Dublin so I'm guessing my rent and childcare is most likely cheaper than what it would be in the city, but she will only be paying half the childcare so I'm thinking she will be fine and well able to manage.
You need to get out of the toxic situation you're in and not let finances stop you.

When I considered leaving my ex I also couldn't see how I could afford to financially. And as a result I stayed a LOT longer than I should have. It was tough but I managed once I was actually out there on my own. Don't let money stop you from being happy.

James Jones

wihstth wrote: »

what if she realises that without any maintenance from me she may find it harder financially on her own... Could she refuse 50/50 joint custody even if she had previously signed the joint Guardianship form, and then because she is becomes the main Guardian of the child she can demand a maintenance payment from me?

Guardianship and Custody are separate matters and don't rely on each other. She has yet to sign the Guardianship declaration so she is the sole guardian and you have no legal relationship with your son. She is in complete control and may not allow you to become Legal Guardian. If she refuses, you could take her to court and would most likely be granted Guardianship but it will cause a lot of animosity. For the sake of your son, ask to become a Legal Guardian but if refused, drop it. Guardianship is not worth the paper its written on. Ask any Married but separated or divorced father if his automatic Legal Guardianship made a blind bit of difference.

Maintenance payments are not dictated by Guardianship. If the child lives with one parent, the other parent is obliged to pay maintenance. If parenting is shared, then no child maintenance is required. As you are not married, no spousal maintenance was required but Section 172.— (5) of the Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010 has changed that.

(5) For the purposes of this Part, a qualified cohabitant means an adult who was in a relationship of cohabitation with another adult and who, immediately before the time that that relationship ended, whether through death or otherwise, was living with the other adult as a couple for a period—

(a) of 2 years or more, in the case where they are the parents of one or more dependent children, and

(b) of 5 years or more, in any other case.

Although you are an unmarried father and have no rights to your child, you are still treated as a married man in every other sense. As a married father, I have no experience of the Civil Partnership act so cannot give any further help other than make you aware of it. Sorry.

wihstth

Hi ash23,

Thanks for the advice it was a lot of help. To be honest the house and mortgage are the least of my worries just now. The rental income and TRS make up most of the mortgage payment, the shortfall being about 120 EURO. So 60 each a month and the house issue is sorted for the time being.

I had figured FIS was all we would be eligible for, and just for her, so that's something to consider when looking at the new budgets. I know I'm probably wasting my time being concerned about her budget, but at the end of the day if she suffers financially then so will my son.

I agree the current situation is toxic and the longer I remain in it the more difficult it will become to keep our relationship amicable. She has even gotten the “Second secret phone” a Christmas present from her affair partner, they are going through the 'How to have and affair and keep it secret' handbook page by page, there is so much she thinks I still don't know or haven't noticed..... But to keep things civil and manageable I just hold my tongue...

I saw two solicitors during the week and to be honest the 25 mins with FLAC (Free legal Aid) guy was better and more informative than the 1hr+ with a private solicitor. But they both told me the same thing, as we are not married there are only two issues, the property and our child.

So the next step is to get the joint Guardianship form signed ASAP. They also suggested we both go to a family mediation service to work out the best solution RE: budgets and custody arrangements. Would anybody know a good Mediation Service on the Northside of Dublin?

I have made arrangements to get the Joint Custody form done this month, I'll redo the budgets again and also go to SW to confirm just what benefits we or she would get.

@James Jones
The Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act raise a few concerns, I'll give the solicitor a call on Monday to clarify it, but I think as we are both in full time permanent employment and earning roughly the same salary that it may not apply.

James Jones

wihstth wrote: »

I have made arrangements to get the Joint Custody form done this month, .

Never heard of a Joint custody form. Is there such a thing?

wihstth

Sorry, I was referring to the Joint Guardian ship Form SI 5 /1998.

I have proof now that they have just taken their affair 'underground'. second secret phone, secret emails, they're just being more careful now but neither of them wants to stop,

It's really rather surreal....

She is still planning weekends away with me and our son for Paddy's day, and weekends away just the two of us.... still talking about getting married someday...... she says I don't understand her or get her... and she's RIGHT....

There are just people in life who think, you have your family and home, you take care of your kids and partner, you do the laundry, hoovering, make meals... all the trappings of 'normal' 'successful'????? family life.... (maybe they need to be seen as normal and successful by all their peers and friends and family) but behind it all.... they really believe and feel its 'OK' to have that extra bit on the side... as long as no one finds out... well no one will get hurt, will they???

James Jones

wihstth wrote: »

James Jones wrote: »

wihstth wrote: »

I have made arrangements to get the Joint Custody form done this month

Never heard of a Joint custody form. Is there such a thing?

Sorry, I was referring to the Joint Guardian ship Form SI 5 /1998.

Well don't do anything until you get that form signed!!! No matter how hard things are at the moment, if you break up without having that form signed, it will probably require a Court hearing to get Guardianship, which will probably cause a lot of unnecessary acrimony.

I'm not going to advise you on any personal issues as the situation seems to be quite messy and unresolved but I will post any info in relation to matters if you do eventually break up. Be aware that Guardianship cannot be revoked from a married father but can if granted by the Court or by Statutory Declaration (I'm not sayin to get married, just pointing out something you should know).

wihstth

Yeah thanks,

The solicitor advised once its signed she would need to take me to court to get it revoked, and even then would need to prove I was unfit in some way, as in abusive or alcoholic or some other bad character trait. None of which she could ever accuse me of being and she knows it.

I don't mean to make things sound unbearable, it's true I have a two faced lying selfish heartless cheat for a partner.... But it's not forever, life changes, but right now after looking at the numbers... It may be that I'll need to wait until the little guy is eligible for the free half day child care later this year, if they don't abolish it first!!!!!

That will free up about €500/month and could then allow us to afford to live separately. So until then I may just have to 'use her' like she's been using me for the last year, to help pay bills and rent and run the house for our son. I know I could still talk to her now and agree to live separate lives in the same house, but I know her too well, if I tried that she'd just be extremely difficult to live with and that just wouldn't be fair on our son. At least that's the way I see things right now.

James Jones

wihstth wrote: »

The solicitor advised once its signed she would need to take me to court to get it revoked, and even then would need to prove I was unfit in some way, as in abusive or alcoholic or some other bad character trait. None of which she could ever accuse me of being and she knows it.

Welcome to the Alice In Wonderland twilight zone of Family Law.

"If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't".

She can accuse you of anything she wants. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. The accusation can be made and repeated each and every time you end up in court. Also, she can MAKE you abusive as all she has to do is say she is scared of you (See Section 5.-(1)(a) of the Domestic Violence Act 1996). This is classified as "emotional" abuse and cannot be disproved. Living with someone as you are is a very dangerous occupation so be very VERY careful.

5.—(1) If, on the making of an application for a safety order or a barring order or between the making of such an application and its determination, the court is of the opinion that there are reasonable grounds for believing that the safety or welfare of the applicant for the order concerned or of any dependent person so requires, the court may by order (in this Act referred to as a “protection order”) direct that the respondent to the application—

(a) shall not use or threaten to use violence against, molest or put in fear the applicant or that dependent person,

The application for orders due to Domestic Violence are a common tactic of the family law courts with up to 50% being withdrawn or struck out. See Courts.ie