Which non-mac laptop

Fi H

Hi Guys
I am totally new to this and have been reading some of the threads so thanks for all the useful information.

Basically I am looking for some advice on what laptop to get. My understanding is that Mac are good but over priced and that you can get the same end result from non mac

So I am wondering what I should be looking for in a laptop. From what I can see there are all sorts of processor stuff that are needed for DAW that wouldnt necessarily be in your standard over the counter laptop. I was hoping to get something for in the region of €1000 or less if possible but will hold off and save more if thats the best plan.

Whats essential and whats add ons in a nice world but can be lived without

Sorry if I should know the answers to this already - anyway thanks

old gregg

I reckon this topic has been flogged to death more often than any other on the 'net *. Try a search of these forums and the 'net in general. The Mac folks will favour Macs, the PC folks will favour PC's, just as has been the case since god was a boy. Have a look around and if you come back with specific questions resulting from your findings then you'll get further I reckon.

For example, what processor types have you looked at, memory, sound, graphics, disc space, DAW preference, etc???? Regular stuff. I'd be a Toshiba fan, currently using a Sony and will revert back to Toshiba next time round.

*broad sweeping statement

Fi H

fair enough i will rummage further

Savman

Mac fan here, so I obviously will have a bias.

At the €1k price point you aren't far off MacBook Pro or iMac territory. A better investment for recording IMHO.

Niall - Dahlia

In my experience yes, you can "get the same end result" with Mac or PC, it's getting to that end result that can be a little less stressful on a Mac.

The biggest influence on your decision should be what audio interface you intend to use. There are so many variable parts in a Windows laptop/PC that compatibility can be an issue. Your processor/RAM/HDD is irrelevant really; get as big as you can afford. The compatibility of your motherboard with your interface and any additional expansion cards such as Firewire is what matters. A Mac is a little safer in regard to compatibility, since there aren't so many variables for interface manufacturers to consider.

As for things that should be in your DAW laptop that would be different from a conventional laptop...a 64-bit version of Windows, if you can get a second internal HDD, or a fast quiet external drive (eSATA, USB3) for recording to or storing samples. I'm not too clued in on Solid State Drives, since the last audio PC I built was just before they were a cost effective option, but you should check them out depending on what kind of audio work you'll be doing. An Apple sticker.

Fi H

Ok it seems to me that the key may be to get the highest spec possible. I have had a look around and am thinking of getting this toshiba laptop
Its got 12gb ram and 1tb memory and had core i7 processor
http://ie.computers.toshiba-europe.com/innovation/product/Satellite-P855-335/1138497/toshibaShop/false/

Does anyone have a view on whether this would be good enough or a disaster....thanks!

Fi H

Ps it doesnt have firewire but this doesnt seem to be essential...is that correct?

partyatmygaff

One thing you might miss... although I doubt you'll have the laptop set up next to microphones but whining or humming fans will probably get very distracting when you're trying to focus on sound.

If you don't intend on moving the computer, you'd actually be better off with a desktop. Passive cooling or at worst a few slow, large diameter fans with an SSD and you'll have a silent rig.

That and you'll have all the choice in the world when it comes to what interfaces you do and don't want.

areyawell

What DAW application do you usually use?

old gregg

Fi H wrote: »

Does anyone have a view on whether this would be good enough or a disaster....thanks!

That Tosh looks very tasty. You'd happily run pretty much any Windows compatible DAW on that either for studio or live work. If I had money to buy a laptop right now that puppy would easily meet my needs to run Ableton and anything else I own with ease. Jelly as hell I am.

GTE

I have used a Toshiba P300 for the last 5 years. Toshiba make a great laptop in general.

Some quick points from what I have learned.

- The OS doesn't matter any more. Mac is not the only one to get, Windows is not the poor mans Mac, the program you want to use and where it works best is what matters. Windows XP, Windows 7 and OSX Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard are solid in my experience.

- Modern DAWs which run on Windows and Mac seem to run extremely well on both operating systems.

- If you want to compare Mac vs PC properly you will find a good Windows laptop is actually laptop with good hardware and build quality which lessens the cost differential between Mac and PC. As I said above, Windows is solid. To add to this, it is the hardware that lets Windows down. Mac is great that you can only have one Apple Mac but a whole load of ****e can be produced by crap brands and run Windows so keep in mind the quality of the laptop.

- Firewire is disappearing fast across all platforms.

- I have only seen Fujitsu, Dell and Toshiba offer the Expresscard slot on their laptops. Toshiba does not offer a quad core option though The expresscard enables reliable firewire ports to be added to the machines. You need this if you plan to use firewire interfaces on Windows. You used to get it on the Macbook which would provide more USB or Firewire ports if needed but that is gone now. I wonder how Thunderbolt changes things.

- If you wish to record and mix with the laptop, you are better off ignoring the internal hard drive size as the Toshiba has an impressive 1TB but it is with a slower hard drive speed of 5400 rpm so it is only useful as a storage drive rather than an audio recording drive. Your DAW will give out when you reach a small number of tracks that it can not take any more. You can easily swap out the internal drive for a quicker 7200rpm one or use the laptops USB 3 ports for connection to a fast external hard drive which will store your project files. The USB option is best as it allows audio to be recorded to a drive that does not have to cope with running the OS and programs. This is as much a problem for Mac as it is Windows.

You could be better off getting a Dell Vostro, a firewire expresscard and some sort of 7200rpm USB3 hard drive and compare that to the eqivelnt Mac which will have no need for the expresscard but still need the external drive.

So:
- What DAW do you want?
- Where will you DAW work best?
- What connectivity do you need?
- Have you designed your possible uses on paper? Mine was a system that could multitrack record and send a load of monitor mixes. Years on, I now I need outputs for surround sound playback so will you design future flexibility into it?
- Budget?


Please do not get stuck in the Mac vs PC debate. This debate consists of two completely ignorant groups fighting badge warfare. You're a newbie and I want to see you led down the correct path

I was extremely lucky with my laptop. It was a high end Toshiba with an expresscard slot, its own internal firewire and a second internal hard drive and an eSata port so the expansion of this laptop is fantastic. Sadly though, laptops like this are less common and I have to say, I would be very reluctant replacing this laptop until I actually need a desktop.

Finally, taking the 1000 euro price point mentioned by someone here, 500 to 600 will get you a quad core i7 Fujitsu with 6GB of ram, USB3 and an expresscard. I stumbled across that laptop recently and it is the only one besides the Dell Vostro that is getting my tummy rumbling.

Fi H

Just wanted to say thanks for the help sorting this out.

Ended up getting a slightly lower spec Toshiba - 8GB ram wiih plenty of other stuff too It was a good bit cheaper with only a reduction in ram. Only issue is trying to get my head around windows 8 now haha....its a pain in the ass!

Have just purchased a Rode NT1 mic and Roland quad capture sound card and finished an introduction to home recording course so all set ready to go!

Looking forward to actually producing something now!

franktheplank

In my experience Macbooks are hugely overrated. I had one on loan last year and it died twice and it was so frustrating to fix it i just gave up on it and went back to a windows system.

The only reason I'd pay extra for a Mac is because I'd assume it's very reliable. From what I saw they're not, and when I did a bit of research Macbooks are prone to failure due to overheating (i think that's what was causing it).

Well, you might think I'll just take it back to the shop and get it fixed. If it's outside the warranty period (which i think is just six months) you have to pay a subscription (50 euros) to apple just to be able to ring their helpline for tech support. That or take it into a shop and pay for it to be repaired.

After that experience I'm deffo a windows (or linux if we get some good DAW's) man for the foreseeable future. One thing to consider though is that a lot of the windows laptops at the lower end of the market don't come with firewire as standard, which is a pain as firewire remains a common standard for higher end audio interfaces.

GTE

The HP Z Series laptops are looking very impressive now. It seems to be new enough and come into my radar last week.

Expresscard, internal firewire and I think some fairly flexible drive option giving a second harddrive (system and audio).

They have also been designed out right for these features for a media production system.

djpbarry

Fi H wrote: »

Only issue is trying to get my head around windows 8 now haha....its a pain in the ass!

They've somehow managed to make Windows even more irritating than OS X.

Quite an achievement.

studiorat

franktheplank wrote: »

In my experience Macbooks are hugely overrated. I had one on loan last year and it died twice and it was so frustrating to fix it i just gave up on it and went back to a windows system. .

I take care of a whole bunch of Mac computers all with slightly different set-ups. My experience with them is that the OS is much more reliable than any of the Windows versions. However when you get a problem with a Mac it's usually a BIG problem that generally needs a rebuild of the system.

franktheplank wrote: »

After that experience I'm deffo a windows (or linux if we get some good DAW's) man for the foreseeable future. One thing to consider though is that a lot of the windows laptops at the lower end of the market don't come with firewire as standard, which is a pain as firewire remains a common standard for higher end audio interfaces.

I believe Linux is definitely the way forward for music. The whole system is so much more configurable in terms of hardware and software. Obviously driver support can still be an issue but there's a hell of a lot of stuff out there. I've also found the support for proprietary Linux software to be excellent.

Regarding good DAW's for Linux we could quite possibly be looking at one very soon! http://www.bitwig.com/bitwig-studio

I've also got a version of this on a bootable USB. I haven't tried it, but the concept is very good I think.

djpbarry

studiorat wrote: »

I take care of a whole bunch of Mac computers all with slightly different set-ups. My experience with them is that the OS is much more reliable than any of the Windows versions. However when you get a problem with a Mac it's usually a BIG problem that generally needs a rebuild of the system.

Most of the computers in my workplace are Macs and they seem to have serious hardware reliability issues.

squonk

I run two Macs and both are incredibly reliable. As said however, they either work flawlessly or something big is usually the problem. I ran a MacBook Pro for several years and had some battery issues but that's par for the course with that model and the battery capacity was great compared to PCs of the time. With a Mac you've the choice to run Windows/Linux or OS X. With a PC you're stuck with Linux or Windoze. A PC will never, ever beat a good Mac setup in my view.

mitosis

squonk wrote: »

I run two Macs and both are incredibly reliable. As said however, they either work flawlessly or something big is usually the problem. I ran a MacBook Pro for several years and had some battery issues but that's par for the course with that model and the battery capacity was great compared to PCs of the time. With a Mac you've the choice to run Windows/Linux or OS X. With a PC you're stuck with Linux or Windoze. A PC will never, ever beat a good Mac setup in my view.

Really? This crap is the soul of your contribution? The OP has already been sorted.

djpbarry

squonk wrote: »

I run two Macs and both are incredibly reliable. As said however, they either work flawlessly or something big is usually the problem.

I take your point about the OS, but as I said above, I witness Macs dying all the time. I mean literally dying. We're talking catastrophic system failure here.

My honest opinion is that this is a symptom of the Apple-mania that has gripped the world over the last ten years - long-term reliability isn't really an issue if a sizeable number of your customers feel compelled to buy the next product release.

GTE

I wouldn't hold any opinions about Windows being less reliable than OSX with much regard.

I do agree with people who say that Windows needs more tinkering to get running at its best compared to OSX however, it seems that I have done that as I have have had a rock solid XP, 7 and 8 systems and it wasn't too difficult.

So, if you learn how to get a computer set up properly, you wont have a problem. And learning this isn't much effort and would help you no end for the future.

That's fairly objective stuff. It either breaks or it doesn't and that's either your fault or it is not. But there was one Mac Fanboy point about how a PC wont beat an OSX system. To be honest, Windows based laptop systems have been at least an even match against Apple in that market. Same processors and often better expandability since Apple dropped Expresscard and begin to make their Macbooks slimmer and slimmer. Again, this is if the potential customer is willing to do a bit of research and rooting around. Thats not to say that the Mac is a bad option. Solid and fast. I guess the main point is that since XP or certainly Windows 7, a Windows system is at least as fast and solid.

I'd tend to hope the extreme people on either side of the camp would cop on and let the DAW and how well it runs on each OS along with the spec of the machine and the desired or current recording setup dictate the choice of computer while then only let the OS be a deciding factor if the user is really picky and can't cope with learning an new OS.