Suicide-prevention funds 'used to cover health budget overruns'

Death and Taxes

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/suicide-prevention-funds-used-to-cover-health-budget-overruns-579323.html

If this is true it is really shocking.
Suicide is a very real issue in this country and the HSE is alleged to have siphoned off the so called "ringfenced" funds for suicide prevention.:mad:

mikom

WileyCoyote wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/suicide-prevention-funds-used-to-cover-health-budget-overruns-579323.html

If this is true it is really shocking.
Suicide is a very real issue in this country and the HSE is alleged to have siphoned off the so called "ringfenced" funds for suicide prevention.:mad:

The government will be along to blame social media shortly.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Ah Dr. James Reilly............great fella.

Couldnt run a dog that lad.....unfit for the post, literally.

Death and Taxes

Stealth Recce wrote: »

Ah Dr. James Reilly............great fella.

Couldnt run a dog that lad.....unfit for the post, literally.

lets not forget Katleen "Reilly's Poodle" Lynch , she has responsibility for this!

snubbleste

You should link the actual story from the journalist who wrote it
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1229/1224328254932.html The Irish Times - Saturday, December 29, 2012 CARL O'BRIEN, Chief Reporter

steddyeddy

This country is being run by people who have little or no respect for society in general.

snubbleste

steddyeddy wrote: »

This country is being run by people who have little or no respect for society in general.

Of course, we elected them ..so it reflects on whom exactly?

mackg

snubbleste wrote: »

You should link the actual story from the journalist who wrote it
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1229/1224328254932.html The Irish Times - Saturday, December 29, 2012 CARL O'BRIEN, Chief Reporter

Not quite as bad as the first link made out but would still have preferred the money going where it was intended immediately. I doubt there is anyone in the country who hasn't know at least one or two people that have committed suicide.

steddyeddy

snubbleste wrote: »

Of course, we elected them ..so it reflects on whom exactly?

I didn't mate. I dont blame the people who did either as they wern't exactly spolied for choice!

expectationlost

how do you predict a health budget?

mikemac1

The newspaper has found that only 17 mental health staff have been hired under these plans and that the money was used in other areas of the HSE.

as opposed to:

She said some 270 of the promised 414 posts had already been accepted and appointments were proceeding. Many of these staff were expected to start work in late December, meaning their salaries will form part of the 2013 budget.

breakingnews.ie, another shower of messers :rolleyes:

sunflower27

That is sickening.

I volunteer as a Samaritan and know first-hand how important those funds are.

Suicide is an epic problem in Ireland, and yet the Government has failed to address it for years. Why? I guess because it is not exactly going to bring money back..... just save lives, which is really not comparable, is it. :rolleyes:

It is disgraceful. That really has me fuming.

Shryke

There was a suicide prevention course going to be thought at my uni at the start of the year. I was putting my name down for it when I saw that it was cancelled due to lack of funding from the HSE.

Bullseye1

It's shocking and we have government shills on here telling us ringfenced money is protected.

Big Bottom

Its all coming out of the same pot though isnt it?

What do they spend all that money on suicide prevention on anyway?

mikom

Big Bottom wrote: »

Its all coming out of the same pot though isnt it?

What do they spend all that money on suicide prevention on anyway?

Because there is no cure for suicide......... only prevention.

Czarcasm

Nothing fùcking surprises me in this country any more tbh.

Big Bottom

I cant see what the big fuss is here tbh?

Pottler

Big Bottom wrote: »

I cant see what the big fuss is here tbh?

Don't worry, someone waay more patient than me will be along to explain it politely in a minute.

ColeTrain

Big Bottom wrote: »

I cant see what the big fuss is here tbh?

If you were affected by suicide then I'm sure you would.

Shryke

Pottler wrote: »

Don't worry, someone waay more patient than me will be along to explain it politely in a minute.

Too much of this kind of post on here lately. (Not yours Pots.)

Big Bottom

Oh sorry, am I not part of the gang now? Hmm? Pots, Shry?

Death and Taxes

Big Bottom wrote: »

I cant see what the big fuss is here tbh?

Three times as many people die from suicide than road deaths in this country every year, this year alone we have had several high profile cases including young girls (two sisters in one family) and a junior minister. Funds supposedly ringfenced for suicide prevention have been used to fill gaps in the HSE budget, and you still cant see a problem?

Pottler

Big Bottom wrote: »

Oh sorry, am I not part of the gang now? Hmm? Pots, Shry?

Not that, but one of my friends killed himself last year, hit me very hard and I know of dozens of others - I just don't see any real effort from the HSE or the Government to actually take any meaningful steps to address this huge problem. "Stealing" from a budget supposedly to be used solely to address this is just sh1tty, in my opinion.

There you go, turns out I'm waay more patient than I knew.:)

AnneElizabeth

The country is out of money, it has to come from somewhere.
I'd much rather them take money from things like this; you can't make someone feel ok with their life but you can say, cure cancer etc.

Death and Taxes

AnneElizabeth wrote: »

The country is out of money, it has to come from somewhere.
I'd much rather them take money from things like this; you can't make someone feel ok with their life but you can say, cure cancer etc.

Care to provide a link to this new found "cure" for cancer, last i heard the best you could do was treat it!:mad:
Chemo is a treatment,radiotherapjy is a treatment.

Big Bottom

Its terrible that people take their own lives but what can be done to prevent it realistically?

It seems like a bottomless pit and too intangible to tackle, maybe some ads on Tele and general awareness of mental health but there is a limit on how to get through to people in that state of mind.

Czarcasm

AnneElizabeth wrote: »

The country is out of money, it has to come from somewhere.
I'd much rather them take money from things like this; you can't make someone feel ok with their life but you can say, cure cancer etc.

You can prevent suicide, you can't prevent cancer.

Agricola

AnneElizabeth wrote: »

The country is out of money, it has to come from somewhere.
I'd much rather them take money from things like this; you can't make someone feel ok with their life but you can say, cure cancer etc.

Yeah the problem is, if this story is true, the money is more than likely being used to cover admin over-spending that the HSE cant or wont sort out (Im not going to say salaries!) rather than high filloutin' cancer research.

Death and Taxes

Big Bottom wrote: »

Its terrible that people take their own lives but what can be done to prevent it realistically?

It seems like a bottomless pit and too intangible to tackle, maybe some ads on Tele and general awareness of mental health but there is a limit on how to get through to people in that state of mind.

thats what they used to say about the 500+ deaths a year on the roads, then they spent time and money on it , now it is less than 190 deaths a year.

Pottler

AnneElizabeth wrote: »

The country is out of money, it has to come from somewhere.
I'd much rather them take money from things like this; you can't make someone feel ok with their life but you can say, cure cancer etc.

Would .you.ever.leave.it.out. Since I'm able to wipe my own bum they've been collecting "to cure cancer". If all the money raised had actually been used for research, they'd be able to build titanium robot bodies for cancer patients and they would be treated in gold plated operating Spa-resorts.


Also, the country is not "out of money". It is just our Government decides to spend it on gack, shyte, bankers and pensions. if they want somthing to spend money on that I'd be a fan of, it would be on suicide prevention.

My blo0dy 12 year old son has school friends that have killed themselves ffs. Just how pressing does an issue have to be for this bunch of clowns to actually bother addressing it??? As in properly??

skydish79

WileyCoyote wrote: »

thats what they used to say about the 500+ deaths a year on the roads, then they spent time and money on it , now it is less than 190 deaths a year.

Yeah they spent money on it to save lives and also because of pressure from private insurance companies

The money the government spends on garda resources saves the insurance companies millions

They dont put the same resources into suicide because there is no private sector companies putting pressure on them to make them more profits

Death and Taxes

skydish79 wrote: »

Yeah they spent money on it to save lives and also because of pressure from private insurance companies

The money the government spends on garda resources saves the insurance companies millions

They dont put the same resources into suicide because there is no private sector companies putting pressure on them to make them more profits

you related to Runfordahills?

Pottler

WileyCoyote wrote: »

you related to Runfordahills?

We won't mention that he's probably right though.:) I do know his brother, Runtodahills. Nice lad, has a lot of good theories.

miss tickle

Big Bottom wrote: »

Its terrible that people take their own lives but what can be done to prevent it realistically?

It seems like a bottomless pit and too intangible to tackle, maybe some ads on Tele and general awareness of mental health but there is a limit on how to get through to people in that state of mind.

There is nothing intangible about suicide prevention, it is about awareness first and foremost ( I know this is old, but a lot more money has been pumped into safe-food programmes, and also recently on the safety of out of date food in relation to saving money.) If the same attention was given to suicide prevention, we would not be looking at roughly 1 teenager a month under 17 taking their own life. And also the stigma associated with depression could also be addressed leading to more people seeking help. Their is an acute shortage of professionals in mental health care within the HSE. Funding for this area has always been abissimal. In the UK they have introduced CBT in secondary school to help children deal with social and educational issues, as school has been highlighted as one of the largest stressor in a child's life. They also have a media campaign addressing the issues of teen and adult depression, to make sufferers more comfortable about being vocal about how they feel. Psychiatric and Psychological services are so under funded in Ireland, that the waiting list can be as high as 12 months in some areas. So in answer to your question, it is possible to get through to people in 'this state of mind'. The present (or previous government) government just can't be ars*d.

Bullseye1

AnneElizabeth wrote: »

The country is out of money, it has to come from somewhere.
I'd much rather them take money from things like this; you can't make someone feel ok with their life but you can say, cure cancer etc.

This is the fundemental problem in this country, mental health is not as important as physical health. One is as important as the other.

Grayson

Pottler wrote: »

My blo0dy 12 year old son has school friends that have killed themselves ffs. Just how pressing does an issue have to be for this bunch of clowns to actually bother addressing it??? As in properly??

What was the money used for? I mean if it was used to pay administrators I'd be pissed, but if it turns out it was used to pay for organ transplants for children (say because more organs became available or more children neededd them), I really wouldn't be as pissed.

I'd still be pissed because they should organise better, but the money would have at least done some good.

123 LC

This 35 million euro could have gone to saving hundreds of other peoples lives for all we know. and we also all know people who have been to hospital for physical illnesses that without the HSE's help would be dead. Maybe it's because when someone is there dying in front of you the hospitals obviously have to save you, which unfortunately for suicide prevention, happens a lot, and happens to cause these sectors of the HSE to go over budget. If there was more money in the country i'm positive the government would have given the 35m to suicide prevention, but the fact is there isn't. They're doing the best they can with the money they have, whilst having to put up with some very horrible criticisms that even caused Shane McEntee to take his own life last week-people on this thread seem to think it's fine to insult James Reilly. So yeah, it's a viscous circle.

uberalles

I'd say suicide is 1000+ PA in Ireland.

How many cars crash with single occupants for example?

I'd say this fg govt and the last ff are directly responsible for more suicides than all the deaths up north in the troubles.

The stats of road deaths to suicides is interesting. So many ads/funding for crash ads. I remember going to see a film once and everyone was in pre film buzz. Then an ad for car crashes followed by one for rape. Everyone was silent and shocked.

Heard a true story of a taxi driver who was found in his back garden with a rope attached to a broken branch beside him. The branch snapped and he was unconscious. He recovered.

How many attempts are made?

The samaratins are getting record number of calls year on year. More funding is needed.

Anyway let's all watch out for each other.

uberalles

Re cancer cure post ....

The irish cancer society gets people leaving them their houses. They are very well funded and their top fundraising management are very well paid. One top dog was head hunted to here and was on a bonus if targets were met. In their case I see it as the charity industry.

mikemac1

uberalles wrote: »

I'd say suicide is 1000+ PA in Ireland.

How many cars crash with single occupants for example?

That's pure speculation though

Some say driving when tired is more dangerous then drunken driving.

Fall asleep at the wheel on a straight bit of road and the neighbours are going to wonder if it was suicide?

Unless there was a note or intentions were made clear then absolutely nobody can call it suicide.

Could have been a man after pulling a 14 hour shift

Death and Taxes

123 LC wrote: »

This 35 million euro could have gone to saving hundreds of other peoples lives for all we know. and we also all know people who have been to hospital for physical illnesses that without the HSE's help would be dead. Maybe it's because when someone is there dying in front of you the hospitals obviously have to save you, which unfortunately for suicide prevention, happens a lot, and happens to cause these sectors of the HSE to go over budget. If there was more money in the country i'm positive the government would have given the 35m to suicide prevention, but the fact is there isn't. They're doing the best they can with the money they have, whilst having to put up with some very horrible criticisms that even caused Shane McEntee to take his own life last week-people on this thread seem to think it's fine to insult James Reilly. So yeah, it's a viscous circle.

My arse they are doing the best!
They essentially stole ringfenced money to throw into a black hole caused by the HSE's and "Jimmy the bad joke"s, Dept of Health's incompetence :mad:

Laneyh

123 LC wrote: »

This 35 million euro could have gone to saving hundreds of other peoples lives for all we know. and we also all know people who have been to hospital for physical illnesses that without the HSE's help would be dead. Maybe it's because when someone is there dying in front of you the hospitals obviously have to save you, which unfortunately for suicide prevention, happens a lot, and happens to cause these sectors of the HSE to go over budget. If there was more money in the country i'm positive the government would have given the 35m to suicide prevention, but the fact is there isn't. They're doing the best they can with the money they have, whilst having to put up with some very horrible criticisms that even caused Shane McEntee to take his own life last week-people on this thread seem to think it's fine to insult James Reilly. So yeah, it's a viscous circle.

James Reilly is indeed a viscous circle. If someone is there dying in front of you I don't imagine there is an emergency money box that you run to, to purchase life saving equipment. The HSE and hospital front line staff are two different beasts entirely. We don't know what exact budget deficit this money was used to cover but we do know enough about the HSE's past record of money mis-management so I could hazard a guess. There are still way too many highly paid Admin staff in the HSE many of whom do absolutely nothing but can't be fired either. They end up hiring contractors to do the work these admin people should be doing. Any system is bound to have its flaws and some of the HSE's problems will not be easy to solve but hemorrhaging money in unnecessary areas of staffing and admin then dipping into healthcare funding to cover it up is morally wrong in my opinion

I think it's fine to criticise when someone is doing a bad job - particularly when
that person is a public representative.
Of course the dissatisfaction should only be expressed in certain ways and these ways should not include taunting and harassment


Personal attacks on TDs and cyber bullying / Internet trolling are wrong but isn't it also kind of awful that the government were not inclined to do anything about it until it affected one of their own?

mikom

123 LC wrote: »

So yeah, it's a viscous circle.

Sticky one alright.....

robman60

Wow, that's pretty awful.

I'm not exactly surprised, though. I was on that letsomeoneknow.ie website recently and it asked me to link to my bebo page. Bebo's been dead for about 10 years ffs.

dissed doc

They sold off the land in the boom and used the money elsewhere for vote-getting actions, and have reduced mental health funding significantly; it's less now than it was 30 years ago. All national policies that have been published have never been implemented.

Ironically, the financial cost of poor mental health is far higher in the long term than the short term gains of some extra money for an A/E.

This is what the electorate want, remember. It is government policy, based on their actual actions, to not have a highly developed functioning mental health service that people can access when needed.

Capt'n Midnight

Grayson wrote: »

What was the money used for? I mean if it was used to pay administrators I'd be pissed, but if it turns out it was used to pay for organ transplants for children (say because more organs became available or more children neededd them), I really wouldn't be as pissed.

Most people waiting for an organ transplant will die. Because there aren't enough organ donors. Money is not the issue.


There is an argument that some people in long term intensive care should be allowed die, because there aren't enough ICU beds for emergency use.

It's a case of balancing risks to cause the least harm because there just isn't enough money to give everyone the best possible treatment. And when you cut funds it just means that more people will die.


The excess mortality statistics could be used to show how many deaths will be caused by cutting things like fuel allowance.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0207/1224311400836.html

Studies have found there are an average of 650 excess deaths during the winter months in the Republic in comparison with the summer months.

In the winter period there are an average of 1,600 extra admissions to hospital each year of those aged 65 or older, accounting for an extra 153,028 bed days at a cost of €61 million.

See cutbacks can cost money

And suicide is primarily amongst healthy males so usually there is a loss in future tax revenue. You could probably work out how much on average.

Capt'n Midnight

mikemac1 wrote: »

That's pure speculation though.
...
Unless there was a note or intentions were made clear then absolutely nobody can call it suicide.

Has anyone done a study on single vehicle accidents where there was no other cause ?

And if so how do the numbers compare to the general suicide rate / economic climate or other car incident rates

It's also possible that alcohol would be involved in some suicides.