Are golf courses getting too easy?

Addictedtogolf

Question:
After travelling a lot over the last year looking at golf courses both in Ireland and Worldwide I have the following question:

Are golf courses getting too easy?
My local club, Faithlegg golf club has fairways that are 50yrds wide and light rough. So you just stand up on the tee-box and blast every hole.

Would you prefer if you had to think about every single shot and every hole was a challenge?

I played Saadiyat Island in Abu Dhabi in October and every hole was an amazing experience. I had to work out distance, shape, direction on every drive and second shot with bunkers all over the place if you don't hit your ball within 90%.

blue note

For amateurs I think it's better to have 18 interesting, challenging holes with a couple of them fairly easy (easy, not boring) and a couple fairly difficult (fair, but hard to par on a good day). I have no interest in playingva course with 18 very difficult holes, I like to have a chance of getting 36 points.

I haven't played faithlegg in a few years, but I don't remember it being particularly difficult. They upgraded tramore recently and I certainly don't find it too easy!

Seves Three Iron

I suppose if you're regularly shooting level or under par it is too easy alrite. What sort of scores you turning in at Faithlegg?

My tuppence would be that courses aren't too easy. A lot of the top courses are generous off the tee to enable rich auld lads to enjoy it (Killeen Castle a prime example) but greens often very well protected to prevent low scoring.

Addictedtogolf

Seves Three Iron wrote: »

I suppose if you're regularly shooting level or under par it is too easy alrite. What sort of scores you turning in at Faithlegg?

My tuppence would be that courses aren't too easy. A lot of the top courses are generous off the tee to enable rich auld lads to enjoy it (Killeen Castle a prime example) but greens often very well protected to prevent low scoring.

I'm a 14 handicap.
But its not really about the scores, but more about not being excited about the golf courses and holes.
Faithlegg has 5 interesting holes in my opinion.
6th - 12th - 16th - 17th - 18th where you have to really think about what club and shot you need to play.
I played Portmarnock, Druids Glen recently and they excited me because every hole was a challenge and exciting.

FixdePitchmark

Baltray is a lovely mix of hard, mid easy

GreeBo

If you play anywhere often enough I think it will become less interesting.
My own club has narrow enough fairways on most of the holes, lined with mature trees and punishing rough. But if you are hitting it straight.....?
The wholes you say that you have to think....do you still really need to think after playing it more than a couple of times?

Keano

I'd love 50 yard wide fairways. My home course punishes any wayward drives on pretty much every hole!

GreeBo

Also, for me it depends on what you mean by "hard"
Does long = hard?
I would be bored on a course thats a long slog on every hole.
Does fast, tricked up greens = hard?
I would be pissed off playing on a course where good approach shots are then at the mercy of crazy putting conditions.
I want interesting. I want to have to hit specific targets off the tee and specific parts of the green for my approaches. When I get to the green I want to be able to read a putt and have a go at it, not just tap everything up somewhere near because the green is full of stupid slopes.
I want to be hitting drivers and sand irons and everything in between off the tee.

I have played courses where I dont use more than 4/5 clubs in my bag. Its all driver, wedge or driver rescue. Thats boring to me.

Seves Three Iron

Ironically, an interesting tweet just now by Denis Pugh...

Denis Pugh ‏Dpugh54
What are the main causes for people to give up on golf and stop the game growing? I think slow play and too difficult course design.

Russman

Addictedtogolf wrote: »

I'm a 14 handicap.
But its not really about the scores, but more about not being excited about the golf courses and holes.

Thats a slightly different thing to being too easy then in my opinion.
I think a lot of "modern" courses can fall into this boring category. So many of them are pretty much the same as each other and its hard to tell one from another. Often you can find out who the architect was and you'll know exactly what type of green complexes there will be.

On the flip side though is the fact that many of these courses are very new and wide open - give it a hundred years or so and they'll probably be tree lined beauties. Still all the same as each other though

I can even think of a few courses within a few miles of my own that would be possibly regarded as "better" but, for me, a lot of them are boring, up, down, up, down affairs with not a whole lot of variety. Personally I prefer my own course because, while its a little quirky, its tough to score on and every hole is different.

With regard to people giving up the game because the courses are too difficult, in my opinion, thats mainly people playing off the wrong tees. Too much machiso, if its not 7,000yds people don't want to know. A lot of club golfers don't realise just how long a 7,000yd course actually is.
Also, golf is hard - guys come to the game in middle age and think its going to be easy, its not.

Just my opinion of course

Benicetomonty

I agree with Russman; for the vast majority of us, golf isn't getting any easier and distance is the biggest factor. Contrastingly, I think the top players in the world, amateur or pro, are finding it easier. Professionals play on courses well over 7000 yards, but that kind of length doesn't seem to stop them shooting -20 over 4 rounds. I think if amateurs were subjected to that kind of yardage day in day out, the majority would pack it in.

The simple fact is, if you don't hit the ball prodigious distances off the tee, your chances of competing as a top class amateur or a tour player are drastically reduced. But that won't stop us wanting to play the courses the pros do or even joining these courses. We've all seen the sign in front of the first tee at Bethpage Black, indicating that the course should not be played by high handicappers for their own enjoyment, but golfers still do, and take hours and millions before they're done. And it takes a very special attitude to be able to enjoy that.

I still can't believe the scores that were shot in the European Amateur this year. To shoot a 62 on the Monty course, as one player did, is playing a game with which I am not familiar. I played the Heritage earlier this year and even though it's a straightforward course, its length makes it intimidating. Not during the Seve Trophy however, when the pros made birdies all day. The European Club is the hardest course I've ever played but Harrington shot sub par scores over 4 rounds two years in a row in the Irish PGA. Distance might not be everything in golf, but around courses like these, it makes a massive difference.

Seves Three Iron

The big anomaly is that amateurs aren't good enough to take full advantage of modern equipment. However, pros are, hence 7,000 + yard courses popping up left, right and centre. Eg, played luttrellstown off the back markers last year. Played excellent and was still four over h'cap. Absolute beast. Amateurs get gobbled up in these places.

It's yet another reason why some halt should have been called ages ago to driver head size and ball length. That didn't happen and, consequently, big firms (TM, titleist etc) are making a mint while courses get longer and less enjoyable. Look at places like Augusta and Birkdale continually lengthening ahead of majors, at big expense. Ridiculous. And they're banging on about belly putters being the problem.

Lawless2k12

A course that I love is St. Helens Bay down by Rosslare. Every hole is different and very interesting. Beautiful course too. Gold Coast is another fine track. They both incorporate dog legs left and right, straight holes, short and long holes, short and long par 3's, par 5's that can be reached in 2 if you're daring enough, beautiful scenery, plenty of water hazards, bunkers, etc. and they are both generous enough with the fairway but will punish a very errand shot.

callaway92

Lawless2k12 wrote: »

A course that I love is St. Helens Bay down by Rosslare. Every hole is different and very interesting. Beautiful course too. Gold Coast is another fine track. They both incorporate dog legs left and right, straight holes, short and long holes, short and long par 3's, par 5's that can be reached in 2 if you're daring enough, beautiful scenery, plenty of water hazards, bunkers, etc. and they are both generous enough with the fairway but will punish a very errand shot.

They are both awful courses really. Rosslare's course itself is nice. St. Helen's isn't. Gold Coast is rubbish.

I enjoy most links but they are poor.

Ballykisteen imo is a good combination of tough yet enjoyable.

Slievenamon is in such a bad state that it's actually tough going.

Quahog217

callaway92 wrote: »

They are both awful courses really. Rosslare's course itself is nice. St. Helen's isn't. Gold Coast is rubbish.

I enjoy most links but they are poor.

Ballykisteen imo is a good combination of tough yet enjoyable.

Slievenamon is in such a bad state that it's actually tough going.

As a memeber of the Gold Coast why exactly do you think its rubbish?

Do you mind me asking what your home course is?

Lawless2k12

callaway92 wrote: »

They are both awful courses really. Rosslare's course itself is nice. St. Helen's isn't. Gold Coast is rubbish.

I enjoy most links but they are poor.

Ballykisteen imo is a good combination of tough yet enjoyable.

Slievenamon is in such a bad state that it's actually tough going.

Never played Rosslare's course unfortunately.
Can't believe you think that of the Gold Coast :O I thoroughly enjoy every round there, same with St. Helens. But you're entitled to your opinion.
Ballykisteen wouldn't be anything special in my books...
Agree with your Slievenamon statement though...
Tramore, Waterford Castle and Mitchelstown are nice courses as well.
Cahir is a bit boring. Middle holes are just over and back again and again!
Clonmel just isn't nice IMO. Just the way it lies is off putting.
Thurles is nice when it's not flooded. Front nine was well designed... apart from solving the soakage problem...
Dundrum is nice but over rated. I'd rate a few of the Waterford courses above it for sure.
Tipperary GC is a fine course as well. Played there a fair few times. Love it! Was in pristine condition last time I was there


Anyone know anything about "Skarke Golf Club"?

callaway92

Lawless2k12 wrote: »

Never played Rosslare's course unfortunately.
Can't believe you think that of the Gold Coast :O I thoroughly enjoy every round there, same with St. Helens. But you're entitled to your opinion.
Ballykisteen wouldn't be anything special in my books...
Agree with your Slievenamon statement though...
Tramore, Waterford Castle and Mitchelstown are nice courses as well.
Cahir is a bit boring. Middle holes are just over and back again and again!
Clonmel just isn't nice IMO. Just the way it lies is off putting.
Thurles is nice when it's not flooded. Front nine was well designed... apart from solving the soakage problem...
Dundrum is nice but over rated. I'd rate a few of the Waterford courses above it for sure.
Tipperary GC is a fine course as well. Played there a fair few times. Love it! Was in pristine condition last time I was there


Anyone know anything about "Skarke Golf Club"?

Ya Waterford Castle is becoming a favourite of mine alright. I'm a member in Cahir and agree with the middle holes being quite boring and repetitive. First 9 holes are very pleasing on the eye to be fair.

Lawless2k12

callaway92 wrote: »

Ya Waterford Castle is becoming a favourite of mine alright. I'm a member in Cahir and agree with the middle holes being quite boring and repetitive. First 9 holes are very pleasing on the eye to be fair.

The 9th to the 15th are the boring ones. My favourites are 2nd, 6th, 7th, 8th and 16th. Interesting few holes. I do like the 11th as well but it's drowned out by the monotony of going over and back unfortunately... Waterford Castle is a beast of a course when the wind is blowing the wrong way. I remember playing it one day and eagling two par 5's after hitting in a 6 iron to both. Next day playing against a howling wind I barely parred them after coming up short with driver, 5 wood and 8 iron to both. Nicely featured as well.

Senna

I just started playing Portsalon (Donegal) again after a 4 year absence, I couldn't believe that the course has been made easier, mostly by removing bunkers. All the changes were done by Paul McGinley and when I was first told I couldn't understand what the hell he was at. But now that i'm playing it I realise that he's right, good shots shouldn't be punished and Portsalon is a tight track where the wind is punishing 99% of the time.

chalkie 501

Mahonys point in Killarney where i play,its not that its gotten too easy but modern technology has made it so much easier.
a few examples are-when i started playing golf around 1990,using old persimmon woods and old soft balata balls...
first hole was a drive and 5/6 iron..now its driveable for some or drive and s/w.
second was your best drive and a 3 wood..now its drive and 7/8/9 iron.
all par 5's are easily reachable for decent hitters,
the 11th was a long par 4(440yrds)which you would rarely hit in regulation, ive seen guys hit wedges into it recently.
the 15th is a short par 4(275yrds) that in the summer you could get to the front edge,now its easily reachable with 3 woods,
the 16th(par 5) has a hazard 100yrds short of the green which unless you hit your best drive you would have to lay up of,ive seen guys drive into this during the summer:eek:
having said all that i still cant put a decent 18 holes together out there

who what when

Lawless2k12 wrote: »

Never played Rosslare's course unfortunately.
Can't believe you think that of the Gold Coast :O I thoroughly enjoy every round there, same with St. Helens.

Anyone know anything about "Skarke Golf Club"?

Scarke is a fairly new course, offering extremely low price membership and distance membership. Some nice holes on it to be fair but for the most part its fairly bland, quiet a bit of over and back type holes. Also the greens arent great.
To me its a course that has potential but isnt really there yet.

Rosslare golf course is ok, the wind can make it practically unplayable quiet a lot. On a calm day its nice enough though.

Gold coast is a nice course in my opinion.

St. Helens is over rated if you ask me.

Lawless2k12

who what when wrote: »

Scarke is a fairly new course, offering extremely low price membership and distance membership. Some nice holes on it to be fair but for the most part its fairly bland, quiet a bit of over and back type holes. Also the greens arent great.
To me its a course that has potential but isnt really there yet.

Thanks for that. Going down tomorrow to play it, if I can anyway. I'll ring tomorrow and find out anyway :L Green fees are cheap as well. €15 at the most tomorrow I just want to play somewhere new and to be honest, I need a bland course at the moment. Not playing great so don't want anything complicated.

FixdePitchmark

ast

who what when wrote: »

Scarke is a fairly new course, offering extremely low price membership and distance membership. Some nice holes on it to be fair but for the most part its fairly bland, quiet a bit of over and back type holes. Also the greens arent great.
To me its a course that has potential but isnt really there yet.

Rosslare golf course is ok, the wind can make it practically unplayable quiet a lot. On a calm day its nice enough though.

Gold coast is a nice course in my opinion.

St. Helens is over rated if you ask me.

Played Gold Coast this year- great little spot . Great holes along the coast. A bit bland in parts , but great for a society weekend.

I know the condition is not top level - but has nice features.

Quahog217

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

ast

Played Gold Coast this year- great little spot . Great holes along the coast. A bit bland in parts , but great for a society weekend.

I know the condition is not top level - but has nice features.

Great to see my home club get some compliments.

FixdePitchmark

Quahog217 wrote: »

Great to see my home club get some compliments.

Had 35 pts and won so happy days - food is great in hotel , great price and the staff are real welcoming . Rose tinted

I know it is the hotel , but the views there in hotel bar are unreal.

The wind at the inlet makes the coastal holes very hard. Just lacks that finishing conditoning, but a great weekend down there for any group of lads - not the fancy sort of place that was built during the boom - but we got a bit spoilt with unsustainable places, so people compare local real courses with the likes of The Heritage.

Lawless2k12

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Had 35 pts and won so happy days - food is great in hotel , great price and the staff are real welcoming . Rose tinted

I know it is the hotel , but the views there in hotel bar are unreal.

The wind at the inlet makes the coastal holes very hard. Just lacks that finishing conditoning, but a great weekend down there for any group of lads - not the fancy sort of place that was built during the boom - but we got a bit spoilt with unsustainable places, so people compare local real courses with the likes of The Heritage.

Bit OT, but at the mention of staff it just got me thinking of Thurles.... Wow! Having dinner after a round there one Saturday and just... wow. 2 blondes and a brunette.... wow Was well happy eating my meal with a nice view. I wonder what made them stand out from the other applicants to the job :rolleyes: Fair play to them though