Do the Spanish like South Americans?

dd972

Any one here lived in Spain or is fluent in Spanish? Just wondered what sort of relationship the Spaniards have with South Americans, I know there's a lot of migrants from Latin America in the big cities in Spain, are they looked down upon by the Spanish? I've read about Spaniards moving the other way to the expanding economies in Latin America as well.

EdenHazard

They how do I say this, DESPISE south americans. i thought they'd have a kinship, oh how wrong I was. its obviously a generalisation but all the spanish I know they really dont like them especially the bolivians, and peruvians of this world. not sure about argentina.

Chips Lovell

That's not my experience. Never encountered any hostility to South Americans.

Sertus

This is like asking do the British like Americans and Canadians - A bit pointless.
Some do, some don't.

bennyx_o

Been living in Spain on and off for the last 3 years and never seen any hostility toward South Americans

Where To

There is some minor circumstential evidence to suggest that native South Americans and Spaniards may not always have bestest of buddies in the past.

EdenHazard

Sertus wrote: »

This is like asking do the British like Americans and Canadians - A bit pointless.
Some do, some don't.

No its not. Spanish who don't like South Americans its because of racial undertones.

I mean nobody thinks that Spanish are burning out South Americans from their homes or want to see a final solution for them but there's definitely anamosity towards south americans among spanish society.

inmyday

If you are from a different country to me. I hate you, so much!

If you are from the same country as me. I love you! We are friends.

Tom_Cruise

I think they have a friendship similar to the friendship that the Irish and Scottish have in Braveheart.

nice_very

the South Americans in spain are economic migrants, I would say mostly Colombian and Bolivian, and in my experience the type of employment they are in is mostly service industry. I would agree that there is animosity from the spanish towards the SA's, probably vice versa too.

mayotom

I live in a community of many Hispanic nationalities, but large numbers of Argentines, Venezuelans and Colombians and to a lesser degree Cuban's, and attitude to each is very different. Generally the Argentines are very well liked people and they and the Spanish are very similar in nature, although most Argentines are hard workers and will not hang about if they don't have work, therefore their numbers have diminished significantly in recent years, with many returning to the stronger economies of South America. At the other end of the scale there are a lot of Cuban's and Columbian who have been involved in crime and gangland activity and have ruined it for their compatriots. Large numbers of Venezuelans and Columbian's have worked in Prostitution and associated criminal activities and therefore these nationalities are less liked than the Peoples of the south.
So my take on it is that I would agree with EdenHazard in some cases but generally they don't lump all of South America into the same pot. Most emigration from Spain to Hispanic countries will show this also, with large numbers moving to Argentina, Chile, Paraguay and Brazil.

El Horseboxo

There's a bit of superiority feeling from the Spanish over south Americans. I'm Mexican and have spent long periods of time in Spain and you do get some smart comments from people like they're looking down on you. They can tell from the accent that you're not from Spain. So by your look and fluency in Spanish most will assume Latino American of some variety. It's obviously not across the board but it exists. Kind of like how some southside Dubliners would look down on northsiders.

Scanlas The 2nd

Sertus wrote: »

This is like asking do the British like Americans and Canadians - A bit pointless.
Some do, some don't.

No it's not pointless at all, a particular percentage do and a particular percentage don't, through discussion on this forum we might get a little insight as to what that percentage is.

I am pie

Undeniably the spanish have an superior attititude, some would use the pejorative "sudaca" when referring to anyone from south and probably central america. Previous good feelings toward Argentina suffered after they took back/stole/renationalised their petrol company YPF from the hands of a Spanish company Repsol. Messi helps the catalans forget that and relations are probably better with Catalonia and Argentina than other provinces, many Argentines are catalan or galician in origin, most would be fonder of their italian roots than their spanish.

Duggys Housemate

El Horseboxo wrote: »

There's a bit of superiority feeling from the Spanish over south Americans. I'm Mexican and have spent long periods of time in Spain and you do get some smart comments from people like they're looking down on you. They can tell from the accent that you're not from Spain. So by your look and fluency in Spanish most will assume Latino American of some variety. It's obviously not across the board but it exists. Kind of like how some southside Dubliners would look down on northsiders.

Don't Mexicans kinda ridicule the Spainish lisp?

Scanlas The 2nd

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Don't Mexicans kinda ridicule the Spainish lisp?

It's not really a lisp, it's just pronouncing c as th instead of s.

El Horseboxo

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Don't Mexicans kinda ridicule the Spainish lisp?

Yeah but that side of things is a bit more lighthearted. Sometimes the Spanish pretend they can't understand non castellano speakers. I've done the same before or put on a mocking lisp or ceceo. I've also made fun of their use of vosotros. I'd more so mess with people I thought were looking down on me. Another thing is them pretending that a verb I'd use was offensive. Coger for example could be used when referring to getting a bus in Spain. In Mexico you'd be f**king someone. That's well known but they'd make up a new offensive meaning for a verb that is identical in both set of speakers.

Wattle

A lot of top South American footballers head to Spain in preference to England. Similar culture and the weather is better. Suppose it makes the assimilation process easier. That and the insane amounts of wonga on offer.

Eve_Dublin

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Don't Mexicans kinda ridicule the Spainish lisp?

Can you blame them? It's ridiculous. I refuse to adopt it. It's not used in the whole country though.




I've encountered a fair bit of racism towards them in Madrid (I can't speak for the rest of the country and you really can't generalise about Spain) but I've come across quite a lot of racism generally in Madrid though. People can be quite small-minded for a capital city. In my experience, the Spanish love to box people off and generalise based on tired stereotypes. Northern Europeans and North Americans are called Guiris (type in guiri into Google Images), which is often used as a pejorative (I'm really fed up with this label tbh), Chinos are all Asian people (people from China are also disliked in my experience) and Negros are all black people. It's a quite conservative city where the majority would vote for a government who are quite intolerant to immigration and looks upon the days of Spanish colonisation as something to be proud of.

Solair

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Can you blame them? It's ridiculous. I refuse to adopt it. It's not used in the whole country though.




I've encountered a fair bit of racism towards them in Madrid (I can't speak for the rest of the country and you really can't generalise about Spain) but I've come across quite a lot of racism generally in Madrid though. People can be quite small-minded for a capital city. In my experience, the Spanish love to box people off and generalise based on tired stereotypes. Northern Europeans and North Americans are called Guiris (type in guiri into Google Images), which is often used as a pejorative (I'm really fed up with this label tbh), Chinos are all Asian people (people from China are also disliked in my experience) and Negros are all black people. It's a quite conservative city where the majority would vote for a government who are quite intolerant to immigration and looks upon the days of Spanish colonisation as something to be proud of.

That kind of goes back to the same people who harp on about how things were great under Franco. You get plenty of them in various bits of the North of Spain too.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Can you blame them? It's ridiculous. I refuse to adopt it. It's not used in the whole country though.

How is it ridiculous? It's exactly the same sound we (most of us) use in think and three. Do all English speakers 'speak with a lisp' and sound ridiculous? I never understood people who said this, especially English speakers.

I've encountered a fair bit of racism towards them in Madrid (I can't speak for the rest of the country and you really can't generalise about Spain) but I've come across quite a lot of racism generally in Madrid though. People can be quite small-minded for a capital city. In my experience, the Spanish love to box people off and generalise based on tired stereotypes. Northern Europeans and North Americans are called Guiris (type in guiri into Google Images), which is often used as a pejorative (I'm really fed up with this label tbh), Chinos are all Asian people (people from China are also disliked in my experience) and Negros are all black people. It's a quite conservative city where the majority would vote for a government who are quite intolerant to immigration and looks upon the days of Spanish colonisation as something to be proud of.

I agree with this. They do this to a ridiculous extent. I met a Spanish woman once who couldn't believe I was Irish because I was introverted and totally different from the other Irish girl she'd met. I eventually said, 'you do know we're different people? We're not all exactly the same?' and she just looked at me. I think on the whole (yes, I know I'm generalising too) the Spanish are incredibly ignorant about other cultures and narrow-minded and that's why I could never stay here for good.

steddyeddy

I have heard them (one or two spanish) make fun of the south americans mixed heritage. Which is funny if you consider the amount of different cultures and races which interbred with the spanish moors ect). Its a fact ignored by all racists, ie we have been interbreeding with each other for thousands of years.

Eve_Dublin

How is it ridiculous? It's exactly the same sound we (most of us) use in think and three. Do all English speakers 'speak with a lisp' and sound ridiculous? I never understood people who said this, especially English speakers.

A lisp is a speech impediment so no, I wouldn't call someone with a speech impediment ridiculous. It's not the same thing.

It is the same sound as "th" in think etc. but those words are pronounced the same way in all English speaking countries (except parts of London where they might say, "Fink"....it's not a matter of accent). When I was learning Spanish, I learnt that the "c" and "s" were pronounced like s's (this was in Argentina).

It's a matter of taste. I don't like it and find it annoying to pronounce. It's tricky to pronounce for non native speakers like myself. When I ask for a cup of coffee in a cup (tasa) without the "th" sound, they look at me like I've 2 heads and I'm forced to say "tatha". It's not as pleasing to the ear as the former. South America was the first Spanish speaking place I visited and I got accustomed to not using it and find the Spanish spoken in most SA countries to be more beautiful imo.


Perhaps ridiculous was the wrong word....I don't like the sound of it would be better. Matter of taste.

Eve_Dublin

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

A lisp is a speech impediment so no, I wouldn't call someone with a speech impediment ridiculous. It's not the same thing.

It is the same sound as "th" in think etc. but those words are pronounced the same way in all English speaking countries (except parts of London where they might say, "Fink"....it's not a matter of accent. When I was learning Spanish, I learnt that the "c" and "s" were pronounced like s's (this was in Argentina).

It's a matter of taste. I don't like it and find it annoying to pronounce. It's tricky to pronounce for non native speakers like myself. When I ask for a cup of coffee in a cup (tasa) without the "th" sound, they look at me like I've 2 heads and I'm forced to say "tatha". It's not as pleasing to the ear as the former. South America was the first Spanish speaking place I visited and I got accustomed to not using it and find the Spanish spoken in most SA countries to be more beautiful imo.


Perhaps ridiculous was the wrong word....I don't like the sound of it would be better. Matter of taste.

And when I learned it, I learned it as 'th'. It's just a regional difference. I guess it bothers me because it comes off as reverse snobbery from the South Americans I know who moan about it...they constantly mock the Spanish 'lisp' and yet get offended if the Spanish mock their accent!

BTW...you do realise that only the c's and z's are pronounced 'th'...not the s's? Tasa is a completely different word which means tax or fee. The word for cup is taza. The two words sound the same in Latin America but not Spain, which is probably why they look at you funny. You'd think they'd get it from the context but they generally don't.

Eve_Dublin

Priscilla Thoughtless Prize wrote: »

And when I learned it, I learned it as 'th'. It's just a regional difference. I guess it bothers me because it comes off as reverse snobbery from the South Americans I know who moan about it...they constantly mock the Spanish 'lisp' and yet get offended if the Spanish mock their accent!

BTW...you do realise that only the c's and z's are pronounced 'th'...not the s's? Tasa is a completely different word which means tax or fee. The word for cup is taza. The two words sound the same in Latin America but not Spain, which is probably why they look at you funny. You'd think they'd get it from the context but they generally don't.

It is a regional difference indeed. It's a matter of taste. I don't think it's better or worse necessarily, I just don't like it and find it difficult to get my tongue round. It sounds ugly to my ear.

No you're right about the c and z and my spelling of taza and I was about to go back and correct myself.S is pronounced like an s, obviously. I've a pretty good level of Spanish now but never write it, unfortunately. And I'm a little drunk :P

I think in context though camareros should know I don't want my coffee served in a tax. I've a similar story in America when I worked as a waitress there and offered the customers "busher" instead of "butter" with my Irish accent and they'd no idea what I was talking about. I suppose in Ireland we're more used to hearing a variety of English accents because we import a lot of telly from abroad. I took that for granted presuming others would be the same.

I just presumed it'd be the same in a big city like Madrid. I've adapted that word but that's the only one I make an exception for.

El Horseboxo

Priscilla Thoughtless Prize wrote: »

And when I learned it, I learned it as 'th'. It's just a regional difference. I guess it bothers me because it comes off as reverse snobbery from the South Americans I know who moan about it...they constantly mock the Spanish 'lisp' and yet get offended if the Spanish mock their accent!

I can't speak for everyone but most of the time I or anyone I know have mocked the Spanish for their ceceo it's not because of snobbery. It's because of how they see their Spanish as the one true version of the language. Again not all Spaniards. But it's something you will come across relatively easy in Spain. I've been in restaurants ordering food and the server will look at me like they have no idea what just came out of my mouth. So a joke in Mexico is that no wonder they don't understand us as we don't speak like we're handicapped.

I've had the same problem in Argentina where i've asked for desayuno but won't respond till i say desajuno. Same with toalla.

1ZRed

I don't care about what the Spanish like, but have you seen many South American lads?


Rides

Morzadec

From my experience they're generally looked down upon in society, and a casual 'racism' (or at least a feeling of looking upon them as inferior) seems quite socially acceptable.

They have offensive names assigned to them - 'Panchito', 'Sudaca', I've even heard a new one 'Cucaracha' (cockroach) which sounds pretty bad to me. It's hard to gauge the extent of how racist/offensive these terms are, but from what I've heard they're pretty bad. Some people will use these terms quite flippantly in conversation, and this form of casual racism seems largely acceptable. It seems using these words or looking down on South Americans doesn't carry with it the social stigma of being labelled a racist.

They are not integrated at all in society. They largely work working-class jobs for low wages. They tend to live in the same areas. Spanish people don't have South Americans as friends. They may speak the same language, but they are not integrated into Spanish society the same way Eastern Europeans are here.

Now obviously it depends on place to place and person to person, but this is the impression I get, at least as far as Bolivians, Ecuadorians, Venezuelans etc... go.

Perhaps Argentinians would be seen as more 'European' and not looked down upon in the same way.

This is just my experience from living in Madrid. Obviously there will be exceptions, but this is the impression I get - not outright racism as such, but a feeling of distaste towards them from some.

Cedrus

I worked in Galicia for 6 months and the seaports there are where most emigrants left for the americas so it is where many return in the first instance. What I heard from Galicians was not exactly nasty/hateful but was more or less condescending.

The wealthier returnees (sometimes several generations on) were mocked as "los indianos"(sp?) and were considered to be vulgar builders of mock mansions (though the example pointed out to me would have left many a celtic tiger mansion in it's wake with it's elegance).

The poorer migrants were looked down on the same as many countries look down on economic migrants (beggars, scroungers, swan/fish thieving..... etc) with an added facet of "they're not pure Spanish".

There was also a different attitude between my colleagues depending whether they considered themselves primarily Galician or Spanish, the Galicians I knew were more willing to consider the south americans as equal Spaniards (but I don't think any of them counted bolivian pan pipers or Ecuadoran prostitutes as personal friends).

parc

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Northern Europeans and North Americans are called Guiris (type in guiri into Google Images), which is often used as a pejorative (I'm really fed up with this label tbh)

Define: Guiris

Hard working, rich Northern Europeans who do not take siestas. Prone to suburn

You see this type of stuff works both ways imo ^

Personally I'm learning Spanish and I really try to incorporte the 'c' as 'th'. It's the way it's traditionally spoken and is more challenging so I try to do it.

When I was in Spain I saw rental ads saying "No Latino Americans, only looking for Spaniards ".

When I was there I met LOADS of south americcans mixing with Spaniards. But they were mostly cool young people. Not bigoted like some are. Those people are idiots though

EDIT: Oh and just to add. I had a South American friend who had a really good job in Spain. He was really well educated and clever, and had also that perma-brown Indian skin. He told me on numerous occasions that some of the Spaniards were bigoted and really narrowed minded, and that he suffered discrimination (to varying extensts -mostly mild) because of his skin colour.

Killer Wench

And on the flip side, I know many Latinos who would identify as "Spanish" rather than acknowledge their Indigenous or African roots.

764dak

Wattle wrote: »

A lot of top South American footballers head to Spain in preference to England. Similar culture and the weather is better. Suppose it makes the assimilation process easier. That and the insane amounts of wonga on offer.

What is "good" weather?

Wattle

764dak wrote: »

What is "good" weather?

You know when the sun shines as opposed to it being freezing cold wet and grey.

Why are you resurrecting a thread from 2012 by the way?

WilyCoyote

764dak wrote: »

What is "good" weather?

Que?

Lou.m

South America is made up of very different countries and cultures. I would imagine their attitudes towards them would reflect that.

I had a neighbour from Catalan when I was little and her husband was Argentinian.

In Argentina a lot of people have family from Spain, especially from Galicia. Spaniards are called "gallegos" (from Galicia) there.

One of Spain's major foreign policy objectives since the advent of democracy has been to increase its influence in Latin America. Spain has a special interest in this area because of historical ties and a common linguistic, cultural, and religious heritage. In the post-Franco years, economic investments and diplomatic initiatives were added to the more nostalgic links between Spain and its former colonies.

Resentment of Spain as the imperial power continued long after the colonial period, because many Latin Americans blamed Spain for their lack of progress and for their problems with democratization. In the early years of independence, the attitude of most Latin Americans was one of disdain for Spain.

Imperial Spain had a lot of colonies remember so what you are sensing might be remnants of those feelings on either side. At the same time, a vital sense of Hispanic commonality between Spain and Latin America is also true.

Also if they are immigrants then the attitude you are sensing might be towards immigrants or foreigners in general.

kneemos

Nobody likes anybody from a different country in this world as far as I can see,except maybe the Germans and Austrians.

BillyMitchel

Half of the answers here should be on the failed thread. Boards is really making me laugh this morning.

Wibbs

Wattle wrote: »

You know when the sun shines as opposed to it being freezing cold wet and grey.

This. The only thing going for the Irish weather is it's lack of major extremes(even our neighbours in the UK get way more extremes than here). It never really gets too cold or too hot. Goldilocks weather, except for the dullness and damp. Christ the damp. On the other hand parts of Spain(as we're discussing that neck of the woods) can go from 40+ in summer, to -15 in winter, so very harsh. North west "green" Spain seems to have the best balance with hot summers, but not too hot and cool winters, but not too cold. Irish weather 2.0 upgrade.

SpaceTime

My experience of it in Spain was that there was a little bit of a post colonial superiority complex going on, but not that huge an issue.

The relationship with South America isn't like Britain / France and Africa though. It's more like the relationship with the US and Canada in some ways. Although not quite.

The Spanish recently (and currently) have had to emigrate to Latin American countries when Spain's economy was doing badly. Many also left for more liberal Latin American countries during the Franco dictatorship.

There is a bit of a hostility towards anyone (including Irish and British) taking jobs in bars etc etc at the moment though due to the extreme unemployment levels.

I also think the Spanish due to the dictatorship being very recent and the history of poor economic performance are actually not as arrogant as other former colonial powers in Europe.

There's also a very genuine sense that people are aware of the nasty history. At least more than you would find in France or Britain.

biko

You dug up a thread from 2012 to ask what good weather is?

biko

biko wrote: »

You dug up a thread from 2012 to ask what good weather is?

A question that transcends time.

Legs.Eleven

bluewolf wrote: »

A question that transcends time.