Cuts

Qualitymark

Labour claim that they wanted to tax the very richest people in Ireland using the Universal Social Charge, but that Fine Gael refused to do this without cuts to social welfare payments for the poorest.

It strikes me that there have been a fair number of cuts and new taxes in the last five years, and I'd like to try to put together a list of these - can people help?

Please don't turn this thread into yet another argument (and mods, please police this) - I'm looking for purely factual information.

Here are some of the cuts that occur to me. Please add the other cuts and taxes, if you'd be so kind. (I'm not good at percentages, so can't tell what percentage cuts any of these are.)

• The old age pension age has been raised from 65, to 66 for the group who would have been about to reach it in two years from now, to 68 for the next younger group. This will cost people around €12,000 a year.
  
• The pre-retirement allowance has ceased to exist. This was a means-tested allowance for people over 55 who had lost their work and were unlikely ever to work again.
  
• Deserted Wives' Benefit was reduced, then ended.
  
• One-Parent Family Payment earnings disregard is dropping from €130 a week to €110.
  
• The extra week at Christmas for people on welfare is no longer paid.
  
• Back to School Clothing and Footwear Allowance has been reduced by €50 per child, from €150 to €100 for age 4-11 and from €250 to €200 for age 12-17, or up to 22 in full-time education.
  
• I think the School Books Grant Scheme has been abolished.
  
• The Winter Fuel Allowance for the old was reduced by 6 weeks to 28 weeks.
  
• The old are no longer automatically entitled to a medical card. Elderly people who will be downgraded to a GP visit card now have to pay drug costs up to €144 per month, following a new rise in the drug payment scheme threshold.
  
• The prescription charge for people on medical cards has been trebled from 50 cents per item to €1.50 per item.
  
• The Drugs Payment Scheme, covering people with long-term illnesses, has been raised from, I think, people having to pay a maximum of €80 to paying €132 per month for medicines.
  
• The Respite Care Grant for people caring for severely ill or disabled people, formerly €1,700 has been cut by €325.

These are the cuts that occur to me immediately - can you add more cuts and tax rises that specifically hit people on lower incomes?

ParkRunner

A full list of the cuts and new/increased taxes are listed in the budget documents on www.finance.gov.ie. Probably not worthy of a thread though if there is nothing more specific to discuss?

juan.kerr

Not entirely sure the point of this thread. Half of the benefits above should probably never have existed to begin with.

Qualitymark

EF wrote: »

A full list of the cuts and new/increased taxes are listed in the budget documents on www.finance.gov.ie. Probably not worthy of a thread though if there is nothing more specific to discuss?

I'm not looking for cuts from one specific budget, but a collection of cuts and taxes on low-paid from the last five years.

juan.kerr wrote: »

Not entirely sure the point of this thread. Half of the benefits above should probably never have existed to begin with.

Mods, could you deal with this, please? I said in the first post that I wasn't looking to start another thread of arguments (there are plenty of these, and this poster is welcome to start his own), but to keep it specifically to the subject.

dvpower

Qualitymark wrote: »

I'm not looking for cuts from one specific budget, but a collection of cuts and taxes on low-paid from the last five years.

All of the cuts and tax increases over the last five years are listed on the Finance website.
Only you can filter the ones that effect the low paid, it being a subjective measure.

juan.kerr

dvpower wrote: »

All of the cuts and tax increases over the last five years are listed on the Finance website.
Only you can filter the ones that effect the low paid, it being a subjective measure.

Good point. And it would be sensible for the filter to take account of pensions and job security.

the groutch

Qualitymark wrote: »

Mods, could you deal with this, please? I said in the first post that I wasn't looking to start another thread of arguments (there are plenty of these, and this poster is welcome to start his own), but to keep it specifically to the subject.

last time I checked this was a forum for discussion.
I don't think it's your place to try to gag people, or to try force mods to do so.

Qualitymark

the groutch wrote: »

last time I checked this was a forum for discussion.
I don't think it's your place to try to gag people, or to try force mods to do so.

I agree. It's a good idea that people start their own threads to discuss their own issues. All I ask is that this thread be kept to strictly factual and non-opinion postings on the original point.

Farmer Pudsey

Qualitymark wrote: »

I agree. It's a good idea that people start their own threads to discuss their own issues. All I ask is that this thread be kept to strictly factual and non-opinion postings on the original point.

This is a discussion forum so in any thread opinions will be expressed. If you wished to just get to know what cuts took place a bit of reserch would have provided this

By the way I do not see Childern allowance it has been cut on average by about 50/child/month

krd

juan.kerr wrote: »

Not entirely sure the point of this thread. Half of the benefits above should probably never have existed to begin with.

Why?.....Because they crowd out the money that could be paid to fat bellied farmers, who inherited their farms, don't have mortgages, and can buy two pubs and restaurant because they're well in with the fat Paddy running the local bank, as well as income from sales rep'ing for an agricultural supplies company.

Fine Gael are an agricultural party. They represent the interests of a tiny minority of wealthy farmers. These people think the rest of us are just monkeys God gave them to serve them.

Don't fall for distractions.....Fine Gael are just the same agricultural fat paddies as Fianna Fail.

Farmer Pudsey

krd wrote: »

Why?.....Because they crowd out the money that could be paid to fat bellied farmers, who inherited their farms, don't have mortgages, and can buy two pubs and restaurant because they're well in with the fat Paddy running the local bank, as well as income from sales rep'ing for an agricultural supplies company.

Fine Gael are an agricultural party. They represent the interests of a tiny minority of wealthy farmers. These people think the rest of us are just monkeys God gave them to serve them.

Don't fall for distractions.....Fine Gael are just the same agricultural fat paddies as Fianna Fail.

This is about one of the most ignorant rants that Ihave come accross to describe people from any sector as fat bellied or fat is beneath contemp.

Fuh Q

Lads its Christmas, can we leave threads like this alone until next week ?

dvpower

krd wrote: »

Fine Gael are an agricultural party. They represent the interests of a tiny minority of wealthy farmers. These people think the rest of us are just monkeys God gave them to serve them.

... and yet they manage to gain the largest share of the vote from a broad constituency. I wonder how?

Scortho

Would it not make more sense to look at the rise and fall of benefits in line with the rise and fall of the economy?

For example in 2006 the carers respite grant was €1200. We were running a surplus then, but even today, when we are running a multibillion euro deficit, the respite grant will be 1375, higher than it was in 2006!

We need to be realistic about what we can expect the government to provide to the country from its tax revenues. Funding of welfare payments at a level higher than they were during a boomtime period isn't sustainable when the country is going cap'nhand to the IMF

Registration fees for college have gone up. Next year mine will be 2500. However the cost to the state for the 4 years would be close to 30,000. So I'm getting a bargain.
I understand that not all students can get part time jobs to fund their fees which is why I'd be in favour of abolishing the free fees and registration charge scheme and implementing a graduate tax instead.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

Qualitymark wrote: »

Mods, could you deal with this, please? I said in the first post that I wasn't looking to start another thread of arguments (there are plenty of these, and this poster is welcome to start his own), but to keep it specifically to the subject.

If you have an issue with other posters, you need to report the post - don't assume that moderators read every post the moment it goes up in this forum. In addition, on this website, discussions about moderation do not happen on-thread, and chastising other posters will generally get you infracted for backseat modding.

That said, the topic of this thread is cuts that have been made in the last five years, not whether or not they should have been made. If there is room for debate here, it is whether or not the cuts have actually been made, and by how much. If this descends into the usual "public sector is lazy/private sector is greedy, rawr, rawr trench warfare, those in the trenches are going to get nuked.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

krd wrote: »

Why?.....Because they crowd out the money that could be paid to fat bellied farmers, who inherited their farms, don't have mortgages, and can buy two pubs and restaurant because they're well in with the fat Paddy running the local bank, as well as income from sales rep'ing for an agricultural supplies company.

Fine Gael are an agricultural party. They represent the interests of a tiny minority of wealthy farmers. These people think the rest of us are just monkeys God gave them to serve them.

Don't fall for distractions.....Fine Gael are just the same agricultural fat paddies as Fianna Fail.

Per the charter:

This is a Politics forum, not Liveline.

Certain standards of debate are expected, and will be enforced. Your posts must contribute to debate, not derail it or drag it into mob chanting.

You need to get a grip before you post in this thread again.

Qualitymark

dvpower wrote: »

All of the cuts and tax increases over the last five years are listed on the Finance website.
Only you can filter the ones that effect the low paid, it being a subjective measure.

I can't see where these are listed or how to filter them... can you help, please?

ParkRunner

Qualitymark wrote: »

I can't see where these are listed or how to filter them... can you help, please?

The budget information is all on www.budget.gov.ie. You will have to go through them yourself to find the info you are specifically looking for

Qualitymark

EF wrote: »

The budget information is all on www.budget.gov.ie. You will have to go through them yourself to find the info you are specifically looking for

Ah, thanks, EF - that was why I started this thread: to make for one place where all these could be easily found together.

So it's back to my original request - if people would be so kind as to add to the small list I've made, to make up a comprehensive list, that would be great.

flutered

the budget a household charge to bring in 500m in 2013, increments due to the p.s. in 2013 to cost 1b, a house hold charge is brought in, a property tax was not, large tracts of land tax free, which again proves my point, the poor always have to pay.

im invisible

Dole was cut from 197 to 188

K-9

krd wrote: »

The term "rural" country is politically a very loaded term - it can say, that Ireland belongs to the farmers, who are the true people of Ireland, and anyone who didn't inherit a farm or pub is just a guest.

The reality is, you can build in the middle of nowhere - as long as you have the other infrastructure in place. 50 miles on a motorway is nothing - 50 miles on bothars (road designed by farmers driving cows) is a lot more taxing.

How it works in America is cheap cars, cheap petrol, and cheap houses, good roads.

The Irish ghost estates were not built with that kind of planning - there was planning; in that fat sweaty bottomed farmers, who were well in with a cute hoor in the local authority made millins selling a few acres.

We seem to have avoided the usual Public Sector warfare and gone with some fixation on farmers instead, which is frankly getting a bit weird.

krd, please do not post on this thread again as it is becoming your soapbox.

darkhorse

Scortho wrote: »

For example in 2006 the carers respite grant was €1200. We were running a surplus then, but even today, when we are running a multibillion euro deficit, the respite grant will be 1375, higher than it was in 2006!

Ya ever hear of the rise in the cost of living, or did ya come up with a way to make time stand still on prices. Now, I aint gonna start doin any homework for ya or anything like that, but I'll give this:

The cost of living in Ireland has soared since 2006, according to new figures compiled by the Irish Independent.
It looked at data released by the Central Statistics Office and discovered that the average cost of running a home is now more than €400 a week, up from €275 a week six years ago.
This is five times higher than the rate of inflation and means people living there now have to find an extra €21,466 a year just to pay for things like their mortgage and bills.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

krd banned for trolling and single-handedly derailing this thread. All krd posts and responses have been deleted.

Let's give this thread one more chance to actually stay on topic. If you are interested in a discussion on the rural/urban divide in Ireland, please start a new thread.

dvpower

darkhorse wrote: »

Ya ever hear of the rise in the cost of living, or did ya come up with a way to make time stand still on prices.

The current value of the Respite Care grant is pretty much in line with the 2006 figure taking inflation into account.

Hard to say what the inflation figure for 'Respite Care' for the period was.

Scortho

darkhorse wrote: »

Ya ever hear of the rise in the cost of living, or did ya come up with a way to make time stand still on prices. Now, I aint gonna start doin any homework for ya or anything like that, but I'll give this:

The cost of living in Ireland has soared since 2006, according to new figures compiled by the Irish Independent.
It looked at data released by the Central Statistics Office and discovered that the average cost of running a home is now more than €400 a week, up from €275 a week six years ago.
This is five times higher than the rate of inflation and means people living there now have to find an extra €21,466 a year just to pay for things like their mortgage and bills.

Ireland has a deficit of over 10% for the year on current day to day expenditure.
Borrowing to fund the day to day expenditure of a country is not sustainable in the long run.
As a result we have to cut back to a sustainable long term level. It mightn't be nice to hear it but there is no way that we can continue funding boom time welfare rates when the country is bankrupt!
Or do you have a route to the money tree?

Has the cost of living risen since 2006? Of course it has? However over this time it works out in a rise of under 10%? I'd love to know where the independent it's figures of a rise of €125 a week? It says that it looked at data from the cso but its not actually the cso's interpretation of the data.

If it has actually risen by such a large amount, then should we not get rid of the consumers price index and let the independent compile it?

liammur

Scortho wrote: »

Ireland has a deficit of over 10% for the year on current day to day expenditure.
Borrowing to fund the day to day expenditure of a country is not sustainable in the long run.
As a result we have to cut back to a sustainable long term level. It mightn't be nice to hear it but there is no way that we can continue funding boom time welfare rates when the country is bankrupt!
Or do you have a route to the money tree?

Has the cost of living risen since 2006? Of course it has? However over this time it works out in a rise of under 10%? I'd love to know where the independent it's figures of a rise of €125 a week? It says that it looked at data from the cso but its not actually the cso's interpretation of the data.

If it has actually risen by such a large amount, then should we not get rid of the consumers price index and let the independent compile it?

This is true.
Threads on 'Cuts' serve no real purpose imo, unless they are highlighting unfair cuts. The real problem is, these increases should never have been given in the first place. Car tax in this country is about 4 times that of the North - that's the problem in this country in a nutshell.

Scortho

liammur wrote: »

This is true.
Threads on 'Cuts' serve no real purpose imo, unless they are highlighting unfair cuts. The real problem is, these increases should never have been given in the first place. Car tax in this country is about 4 times that of the North - that's the problem in this country in a nutshell.

Definitely.
From an irish times article just before the budget:
According to the Economic and Social Research Institute’s analysis of budgets in the 2002-2006 period, the incomes of the top 40 per cent of earners increased by 1 per cent as a result of changes in those five budgets, while the incomes of the bottom fifth were boosted by 17 per cent.

And even despite the greater emphasis on spending cuts since the crash, the distributional effects have continued to favour those on lower incomes. The latest assessment of the ESRI on the combined effects of all budgetary measures since austerity began shows losses for those on low incomes ranging from 4 to 6 per cent; from 7½ to 9½ per cent for middle-income earners; and close to 11 to 12 per cent for those on high incomes.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1203/1224327390597.html

Car tax should be based on revenues value of the car. Much fairer than taxing someone who drives a 10 year old banger more than someone who has a brand new car.