Potato growing

CAtocork

Anybody here involved in potato growing?

bob charles

CAtocork wrote: »

Anybody here involved in potato growing?

I know enough growers to warn you off growing commercially

CAtocork

bob charles wrote: »

I know enough growers to warn you off growing commercially

Why is that? Spuds are retailing at over 600/ton. A 10 crop is not much to ask for these days and roosters can do 20 tons.
If some growers can spend millions on potato equipment and there is plenty of s/h stuff around for peanuts, do I detect an element of greed in this industry?
I know guys making a comfy living from 20 acres and guys growing 200 acres cant pay their bills, warning everybody off growing them.
Scale of economics at work here in the opposite way?
I had a sales rep down with ma last week selling sprays. He told me he would not supply big growers as he had been burned too often. The "small fellas" he said, would have cash on delivery without even asking for it.
Fancy equipment does not mean a big bank balance, it means a love of fancy gear and try and grow more acres to make it pay, thus flooding the market. These are the guys warning people off growing spuds??

6480

a fella i buy straw from told me that on a good year 20 acres of a good spud crop and have good profit , but on a bad year they would leave u on the road , spuds are dear this year as they are scarce because of the bad year , so i wont go that mad about growing them

bob charles

CAtocork wrote: »

Why is that? Spuds are retailing at over 600/ton. A 10 crop is not much to ask for these days and roosters can do 20 tons.
If some growers can spend millions on potato equipment and there is plenty of s/h stuff around for peanuts, do I detect an element of greed in this industry?
I know guys making a comfy living from 20 acres and guys growing 200 acres cant pay their bills, warning everybody off growing them.
Scale of economics at work here in the opposite way?
I had a sales rep down with ma last week selling sprays. He told me he would not supply big growers as he had been burned too often. The "small fellas" he said, would have cash on delivery without even asking for it.
Fancy equipment does not mean a big bank balance, it means a love of fancy gear and try and grow more acres to make it pay, thus flooding the market. These are the guys warning people off growing spuds??

Spuds are now gone to one good year in five, they make a fortune in that one year and nearly go to the wall waiting for it to come around. I remember talking to a guy I know well last year during the first week of January and he was out ploughing (200ac grower), I asked him could he afford to roll the dice again (they spent most of last year selling at 50% of cost of production) . Now say he was having a 15t crop over 200 ac that 3000t of spuds loosing over a hundred quid a ton a piece. You can do the math. This year crops are absolutely crap with all growers leaving a % unharvested. yields down around 8t an ac. So just because the price is €600 a t at the moment still doesnt mean all is good. I good enough friends with a couple of guys around the 500ac mark and how these boys keep their heads right is beyond me. If you saw the quality of potatoes dumped last year, you would realise how flecked up the spud market is.

sorry only noticed you are talking about small acreage, 15ac? at this scale handy machinery does the trick but labour is high, once you move above a certain point the costs shoot up. Having a market is probably the most important. A guy I rent ground of made a serious few notes out of around 3 ac last year so he is doubling ac next year. guess he has gotten the bug. Anyone that gets out of spuds, say never again would they get back in. Remember spuds werent worth the harvesting cost only last april. I was talking to a small grower and he left the majority of his crop in the ground to rot

CAtocork

6480 wrote: »

a fella i buy straw from told me that on a good year 20 acres of a good spud crop and have good profit , but on a bad year they would leave u on the road , spuds are dear this year as they are scarce because of the bad year , so i wont go that mad about growing them

Exactly my point. If he can make a profit from 20 acres in a good year, which is basically one year in 3, he should have enough reserve to tool up for the following years. From the research I have done, borrowing for potato growing is a no no. If you have a decent market, ie, direct sales to shops and a good farm gate trade, you will make a decent wage in a "bad year".
The big growers typically supply the wholesalers for whatever they can get in a "bad year" and try to screw them in a "good year". This is not good business and the whole business seems totally unregulated. This is not good for the grower, the wholesaler or the customer.
The non regulation of this crop is like a dairy farmer going to the shop with milk undercutting the processor who then has to get cheaper milk to compete, which creates a chain reaction.
Potatoes, like any other crop should be profitable in any year, it's the price cutting from over supply that seems to be the problem, price cutting from growers who "advise" others not to grow them.
Why then, do large growers get larger when there is only a certain amount of people to feed" Greed? or the love of new equipment and the need to "justify" it.
If everybody had 20 acres and had a decent market, ie wholesaling themselves, would life be simple?
If the large growers insist on getting bigger, supplying wholesalers, who supply distributors, who supply shops, how easy is for a small grower to go straight to the shop and reap the price difference between the "large grower" and the shop price. It really is impossible to regulate this

CAtocork

From my own experience.
I had 20 acres of spuds in 1990. I planted British Queens, Maris Piper, Kerr's pink and some Golden Wonders.
I had a few shops and chippers in west Cork and Kerry that I supplied from July to the following June from borrowed equipment, a rented shed, rented land and a Hiace Van.
I blew cold air through the last 20 tons and insulated them with straw bales and they held fine till the following summer.
I had a job offer in the meantime overseas so I took off the following year.
Looking back on it, it paid off pretty well, and that was a bad year. I just did it because I worked for a neighbor was a large spud grower and he was able to set me straight. He got killed in the meantime, different story but he was a hell of a guy.
So my point is, if you can make a living growing a small amount of acres, why go broke trying to fill the yard with flash gear and growing spuds at a loss to keep up with the "big boys"
It's the same with silage contractors. Some pay a fortune to put an outfit together and cut for nothing to cover acres, more fellas put nice used kit together and charge a fair price and stay in business and pay for their diesel on time.
Are my missing something here or are people happy to work for free??

Conflats

Small Scale doesnt fit in with the whole supermarket model 20 years ago people bought more of their shopping in small supermarkets then the big boys came in franchised and opened their own store.

Potato growing is left to a small number i think around 650-700 growing them with 350ish producing the most. Potatoes need to be supplied all year round a small grower cant provide the service unless everyone is at it with a couple of acres. It makes no sense to promote the small time attitude yes it works for farm shops but you go to any large town or city people do not want to have to go to another shop to buy a product they can get under one roof and most likely at a higher price due to supermarket pricing strategies.

Bigger producer stands to loose more but gains a lot in a good paying year, this year good varieties such as rooster only doing 15-20T/Ha and the size of the actual potatoes arent great a lot of small ones.

The whole food industry needs legislation brought back which prevents below cost price selling of goods, then the markets might level out

CAtocork

Conflats wrote: »

Small Scale doesnt fit in with the whole supermarket model 20 years ago people bought more of their shopping in small supermarkets then the big boys came in franchised and opened their own store.

"In the meantime they dictated the prices to the growers and promoted under cost selling"

Potato growing is left to a small number i think around 650-700 growing them with 350ish producing the most. Potatoes need to be supplied all year round a small grower cant provide the service unless everyone is at it with a couple of acres. It makes no sense to promote the small time attitude yes it works for farm shops but you go to any large town or city people do not want to have to go to another shop to buy a product they can get under one roof and most likely at a higher price due to supermarket pricing strategies.

"There is a trend to buy local these days and super valu are a forefront in this department. Dunnes Stores, Tesco and Liddle will hold a ball of cash in front of a grower with a full store and basically say take it or leave it."

Bigger producer stands to loose more but gains a lot in a good paying year, this year good varieties such as rooster only doing 15-20T/Ha and the size of the actual potatoes arent great a lot of small ones.

The whole food industry needs legislation brought back which prevents below cost price selling of goods, then the markets might level out

It's impossible to regulate veg and potatoes as it is basically consumer ready as soon as it leaves the farm gate, no further processing is required. The most successful growers I have seen are the one's who both sell direct to the consumer via farm gate sales and through local shops such as super valu's. If the growing was left to the big guys only they would not be happy until there was only one of them left. How big is big, thank God for the market forces for keeping some of these guys under wraps. One famous hurling player had 800 acres of them for a few years.
There are 5 guys here growing potatoes. 4 of them are 10-20 acres, one of them making his sole living from 10 acres.
He told me this year his roosters were a 12 ton crop, pinks back to 8 but his golden wonders did a surprising 8 tons as well. He figures this year if the price stays good he will gross over 10,000 euro/acre and net over 80K. This guy is unbelievable. He hires a part time guy for 2-3 days for the spring and harvest and does the rest himself. Bought a brand new tractor as a tax dodge another year and has built a 200x80 shed for empty boxes and machinery. He has a 100 ton cold store, newtech bagging system and 2 harvesters, one for earlies, unmanned with a tank and a 2 row for the main crop. He has NO bank loans, no staff, grows his own seed from a few CTW of left over scottish seed he gets every May.
The big guy has 200 acres, staff of 4-5, an army of tractors and machinery, looses a field here and there and basically dumps his stuff on the market every year and, is always stressed about getting the cold stores cleared before the earlies come in.
You tell me who has a better lifestyle???

severeoversteer

you must have a few contacts for feed potatoes so bob ?

bob charles

why do the big get bigger - great question, IMV just to stand still.

Conflats

CAtocork wrote: »

It's impossible to regulate veg and potatoes as it is basically consumer ready as soon as it leaves the farm gate, no further processing is required. The most successful growers I have seen are the one's who both sell direct to the consumer via farm gate sales and through local shops such as super valu's. If the growing was left to the big guys only they would not be happy until there was only one of them left. How big is big, thank God for the market forces for keeping some of these guys under wraps. One famous hurling player had 800 acres of them for a few years.
There are 5 guys here growing potatoes. 4 of them are 10-20 acres, one of them making his sole living from 10 acres.
He told me this year his roosters were a 12 ton crop, pinks back to 8 but his golden wonders did a surprising 8 tons as well. He figures this year if the price stays good he will gross over 10,000 euro/acre and net over 80K. This guy is unbelievable. He hires a part time guy for 2-3 days for the spring and harvest and does the rest himself. Bought a brand new tractor as a tax dodge another year and has built a 200x80 shed for empty boxes and machinery. He has a 100 ton cold store, newtech bagging system and 2 harvesters, one for earlies, unmanned with a tank and a 2 row for the main crop. He has NO bank loans, no staff, grows his own seed from a few CTW of left over scottish seed he gets every May.
The big guy has 200 acres, staff of 4-5, an army of tractors and machinery, looses a field here and there and basically dumps his stuff on the market every year and, is always stressed about getting the cold stores cleared before the earlies come in.
You tell me who has a better lifestyle???

If the system of small growers was sustainable why did the small growers leave in such large numbers for years?

I take on board your example of a grower who is making a living but I don't believe it is a sustainable system a network of small growers it doesn't fit with the way the selling of the produce goes nowadays as in
Farmer= packer=supermarket
ok by taking out the middle guy seems logical but it wont work with the big corporation as in the number 1 guy in Ireland for food Mr Tesco he wants smallest number of suppliers possible (as in the packers) and he doesnt care where they come from weather abroad or Ireland

Supply and demand is key in any product, the simple fact of it all is we eat less potatoes nowdays due to pasta and rice etc and convenience of cooking

CAtocork

Conflats wrote: »

If the system of small growers was sustainable why did the small growers leave in such large numbers for years?

I take on board your example of a grower who is making a living but I don't believe it is a sustainable system a network of small growers it doesn't fit with the way the selling of the produce goes nowadays as in
Farmer= packer=supermarket
ok by taking out the middle guy seems logical but it wont work with the big corporation as in the number 1 guy in Ireland for food Mr Tesco he wants smallest number of suppliers possible (as in the packers) and he doesnt care where they come from weather abroad or Ireland

Supply and demand is key in any product, the simple fact of it all is we eat less potatoes nowdays due to pasta and rice etc and convenience of cooking

So, okay, the small growers disappear ie, the dairy farmer with a few acres, and, the guy that invests his money in modern used equipment and washes and packs his own spuds, supplies a local shop 12 months of the year, should be blown out of the market???
Sorry bro, the new big is SMALL. No headaches, small investment and happy with a small turnover, is the future. The average guy makes a 100/day working. If you can turn 200 euro a day and keep half your better off.
The big silage guys selling off used harvesters are creating competition by making equipment cheaper.
Think about it........

Conflats

CAtocork wrote: »

So, okay, the small growers disappear ie, the dairy farmer with a few acres, and, the guy that invests his money in modern used equipment and washes and packs his own spuds, supplies a local shop 12 months of the year, should be blown out of the market???
Sorry bro, the new big is SMALL. No headaches, small investment and happy with a small turnover, is the future. The average guy makes a 100/day working. If you can turn 200 euro a day and keep half your better off.
The big silage guys selling off used harvesters are creating competition by making equipment cheaper.
Think about it........

I get what you are saying but the one big hurdle is not everyone wants to shop local, price is the main driver for most

There is a reason why tesco is the number 1 in ireland and dunnes is number 2, they deal with a few large suppliers, country crest is tescos main one they are a huge buyer in ireland. The small farmer is not going to start taking business away from the big supermarket.

Rural people are more likely to be open to the local shops but the majority dont care if its local or not.

CAtocork

Conflats wrote: »

I get what you are saying but the one big hurdle is not everyone wants to shop local, price is the main driver for most

There is a reason why tesco is the number 1 in ireland and dunnes is number 2, they deal with a few large suppliers, country crest is tescos main one they are a huge buyer in ireland. The small farmer is not going to start taking business away from the big supermarket.

Rural people are more likely to be open to the local shops but the majority dont care if its local or not.

And the majority rules.
Do a little google search on how Walmart operates in the USA.
Small potato growers did not "just pack up". They were forced out of business by the big super markets who quite happily drive growers into dire financial straits by offering them what ever they feel like paying a grower on the day.
My cropping plan for 2013.
10 acres of potatoes.
2 acres swedes.
2 acres of carrots.
1 acre parsnips.
cabbage will follow early potatoes.

Am I doomed?

epfff

CAtocork wrote: »

And the majority rules.
Do a little google search on how Walmart operates in the USA.
Small potato growers did not "just pack up". They were forced out of business by the big super markets who quite happily drive growers into dire financial straits by offering them what ever they feel like paying a grower on the day.
My cropping plan for 2013.
10 acres of potatoes.
2 acres swedes.
2 acres of carrots.
1 acre parsnips.
cabbage will follow early potatoes.

Am I doomed?

You will be no worse off than feeding beef

Farmer Pudsey

CAtocork wrote: »

And the majority rules.
Do a little google search on how Walmart operates in the USA.
Small potato growers did not "just pack up". They were forced out of business by the big super markets who quite happily drive growers into dire financial straits by offering them what ever they feel like paying a grower on the day.
My cropping plan for 2013.
10 acres of potatoes.
2 acres swedes.
2 acres of carrots.
1 acre parsnips.
cabbage will follow early potatoes.

Am I doomed?

It all depends on your market. There has been an obsession in Ireland and accross europe that bigger is better. This has allowed retailers/Supermarkets to force down the price of agriculture produce below the cost of production in a large number of instances. The smaller parttime lad is coming back into vogue. I know lads that make nice money from potatoes growing 5ish acres as they can deal direct with customer wheather it is an invidual taking a bag a week or a shop taking 1-3 ton. They grow a few veg as well.

It is the cost associated with bagging that is killing the industry with bags gone down to 10kgs this is 100/ton and it is the same price for a 10kg bag as a 20kg bag @ factory level.

I see lads expanding at beef finishing, milking, silage contracting and at spuds/veg and the reality is that they are doing more work carring larger risk for the same or less money. Big machinery seems to be a drug wheather it is a 4WD tractor, landcruiser, a diet feeder or a spud harvester.

Some lads spend there life working for the machinery

bob charles

CAtocork wrote: »

And the majority rules.
Do a little google search on how Walmart operates in the USA.
Small potato growers did not "just pack up". They were forced out of business by the big super markets who quite happily drive growers into dire financial straits by offering them what ever they feel like paying a grower on the day.
My cropping plan for 2013.
10 acres of potatoes.
2 acres swedes.
2 acres of carrots.
1 acre parsnips.
cabbage will follow early potatoes.

Am I doomed?

taught I replied but anyway

how many acres have you available either owned or leased

pakalasa

I heard from someone that the best spuds for the chippers, are now coming from Greece. Is that true?

marathon

how many tonnes to acre would i get from queens potatos and how much per tonne

MickeyShtyles

marathon wrote: »

how many tonnes to acre would i get from queens potatos and how much per tonne

If ye've access to the journal website its on that.
A wee search should do it.

marathon

cheers will have look

micraX

marathon wrote: »

how many tonnes to acre would i get from queens potatos and how much per tonne

How much per ton? How is anyone ment to know that at the minute? With the first real planting only taken place in the last week or two?
With the amount of spuds in the cold stores in north dublin there's enough there till this time next year. This will push down any potentional premium on new season potatoes.

MickeyShtyles

micraX wrote: »

How much per ton? How is anyone ment to know that at the minute? With the first real planting only taken place in the last week or two?
With the amount of spuds in the cold stores in north dublin there's enough there till this time next year. This will push down any potentional premium on new season potatoes.

Not on the early stuff. Home Guard and the like.

marathon

was only looking for rough idea micrax not an exact answer

micraX

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

Not on the early stuff. Home Guard and the like.

What?



There is no exact answer. We where getting 1000 a ton a few years ago. Then years like last year no one wanted queens

micraX

He had two questions. First was how many ton.
Second was how much per ton.

enricoh

A few lads around here have packed in the spuds in the last few months. One lad I know said he'd be homeless if he had another bad year. Its a tough game, not for the faint hearted!

MickeyShtyles

micraX wrote: »

What?



There is no exact answer. We where getting 1000 a ton a few years ago. Then years like last year no one wanted queens

Homeguards remain the same year in year out.

micraX

MickeyShtyles wrote: »

Homeguards remain the same year in year out.

At a farm shop they might. Not wholesale.

MickeyShtyles

micraX wrote: »

At a farm shop they might. Not wholesale.

OP didn't stipulate....