Trainer Road

RHJ

This post has been deleted.

couerdelion

There was a bit of discussion a while ago in the Triathlon forum --> here

Great software though.

doozerie

Thought I'd add my experiences of TrainerRoad here. I've been using it on and off for a few months now. I like the structured format of the turbo sessions that it offers, and the ability to overlay those on top of a video, like the Sufferfest videos, is great (as is the fact that they have specific TrainerRoad workouts created to work with a whole bunch of specific videos so your workout graphs match what the videos are asking you to do). I've had reservations about the accuracy of the power figures it calculates though, I had no means of knowing how accurate, or not, they were. They seemed consistent from one session to another, so it seemed like they'd serve as a reliable guide to whether I was improving, and that was good enough for me for the last while. But the nagging question persisted of whether the actual figures themselves were even vaguely accurate.

Last night for the first time I used a real power meter (a PowerTap) during a TrainerRoad session. I set TrainerRoad to use virtual power so I was able to compare its virtual power figures against the actual figures from the PowerTap display on my Garmin. They were consistently almost identical, to the extent that I wondered whether the TrainerRoad software had actually picked up the feed from the PowerTap hub without my realising it. But no, when I checked at the end of the session the TrainerRoad software insisted that it was working entirely off virtual power.

Comparing the session profiles later from both my Garmin with its PowerTap data and TrainerRoad with its virtual power data, there are subtle differences only, the specific power figures at any moment in time seem to be within about 5% of each other and usually are within only a handful of watts of each other. The PowerTap profile looks marginally more spiky, as if it were providing data more frequently than TrainerRoad was calculating it, but basically TrainerRoad looks very accurate relative to the PowerTap. I'm simultaneously impressed by TrainerRoad's accuracy, and disappointed to find that my power output really is as crap as it has been telling me all along - the boot of harsh reality has firmly kicked me in the tenders.

So for anyone considering whether TrainerRoad is a worthwhile investment, I can only say that I've been happy with what it offers and what's more it looks like I can have reasonable faith in the accuracy of its virtual power figures too. Assuming you already have an ANT-enabled cadence sensor then there is a once-off cost to buy an ANT+ USB key (my Garmin one cost about 30euro or so from Amazon) and using TrainerRoad costs a little under €8 per month, depending on the exchange rate, so it's a lot cheaper than buying a real power meter (though obviously with the downside that you get power info for your turbo sessions only, and there are some that believe that the figures you achieve on an indoor turbo trainer will always be less than you can achieve on the road so depending on how much accuracy you want this limitation could be more than just an inconvenience).

The TrainerRoad website claims to be accurate to within 3W when using a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine turbo trainer. I don't think that any such guarantee or measure is given for any other turbo. In my case I have a Tacx Flow, and when using TrainerRoad I set my device/power source to be "(Beta) Tacx Flow 2% [Quarq]" and then set the resistance on my turbo to +2 (I ensure my tyre pressure is consistent before each session, I ride on the turbo for about 8mins first to warm it up, then I recalibrate it to ensure that it shows 0 before setting resistance to +2 and starting my session), and this combination seems to produce quite accurate results - for me anyway, at my modest power output, I obviously can't say whether its accuracy suffers as you go up the power scale.

Oh, and using the PowerTap also confirmed that the power figures displayed by my Tacx Flow itself are optimistically high (although they seem to be consistent to may still provide some useful measure of progress). So, not content with laying in with its boot, harsh reality has chosen to poke me sharply in the eye too.

So, in short, a very big thumbs up for TrainerRoad from me!

redved

agree with your post above, hard to beat for €8 per month. I've the Kurt Kinetic trainer so hope the figures are at least consistent.
Good variety of plans available to keep it interesting, thumbs up also

couerdelion

My own cycling has improved massively this year (in my opinion). I put it down to a winters worth of using Trainer Road. Now it might be that consistency was actually the key and it had little to do with how I utilised TR but i don't think I would have been as consistent if the training wasn't there set out ready for me to do.

What I would love TrainerRoad to be able to do is import a TCX file and then calculate a power profile / training session. So if for example I rode the Gorey 3 day or Ironman UK (or could get the files of someone who had) I could virtually ride the route increasing power when necessary.

munsterbear

Is it possible to use this with a tablet still using the Internet Explorer on it and ant+ plugged in?

Have a Samsung galaxy tab 10. Prefer to use it than laptop as the screen is cracked on it.

bren_mc

I plan on using the turbo quite a bit over the next few months and just started using Trainerroad last night. Did the 20 min test ride and I'm very impressed so far.

One small issue was that about half way into the ride, trainerroad stopped receiving data from the heart rate monitor - the Edge 500 head unit kept receiving data though. From what I can gather on the trainerroad site it may be to do with a poorer signal being broadcast because of a low battery, so I'll change that and see if it fixes the problem.

Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience?

Zen0

munsterbear wrote: »

Is it possible to use this with a tablet still using the Internet Explorer on it and ant+ plugged in?

Have a Samsung galaxy tab 10. Prefer to use it than laptop as the screen is cracked on it.

You need to plug a USB Ant+ receiver into your PC to receive data from your speed and HR sensors. I don't think a tablet can do that. Even of you can physically fit one, you need to install Garmin's Ant+ agent, and I don't think there is one for Android.

ericzeking

Do you need to be connected to the net while doing the workout?

My wifi signal is a bit sh!t in the room that I have the turbo....

fago

No you need have recently logged in however. I think it may last for a few days.

So before decending into the car park in work with no connectivity at all, I just make sure I've opened it while on the network.

on_the_nickel

ericzeking wrote: »

Do you need to be connected to the net while doing the workout?

My wifi signal is a bit sh!t in the room that I have the turbo....

+1

duffyshuffle

I've found trainer road amazing. Hooked up with power tap displaying figures on screen and combined with sufferfest, its very hard to back out of any intervals

Albag

couerdelion wrote: »

My own cycling has improved massively this year (in my opinion). I put it down to a winters worth of using Trainer Road. Now it might be that consistency was actually the key and it had little to do with how I utilised TR but i don't think I would have been as consistent if the training wasn't there set out ready for me to do.

What I would love TrainerRoad to be able to do is import a TCX file and then calculate a power profile / training session. So if for example I rode the Gorey 3 day or Ironman UK (or could get the files of someone who had) I could virtually ride the route increasing power when necessary.

Great idea!!

Anyone got recent feedback on TR? Good sessions/training plans, accurate power? Really thinking of signing up just looking for latest feedback..

Ta

cheerspal

That's me sold. How come I have never heard of this before!

couerdelion

Albag wrote: »

Great idea!!

Anyone got recent feedback on TR? Good sessions/training plans, accurate power? Really thinking of signing up just looking for latest feedback..

Ta

They have their own plans which are pretty good - accuracy wise when I wrote my review over on the Triathlon forum I was using a cyclops turbo with virtual power. It gives pretty much identical watts to the powermeter I have so they've mapped it pretty damn well. Using virtual power though you have to make sure that the turbo flywheel is the same tightness against the tyre / same tyre pressure to make it consistent.

I've been a little more focused this year (but still not quite enough) and it really is a great training aid for those of us who prefer to be inside when it's cold and damp. I did last year outside and got a lot of chest infections from the damp cold weather so this year I've been inside and , touch wood, am in better health.

cheerspal

Watched a few videos and read reviews on it. Looks like an amazing product and well worth the money. Bought an Amt usb last night so hopefully will be up and running next week.

mcgratheoin

Well worth the investment in my opinion - it's nice to be bale to pick a structured programme and feel that you're actually doing some targeted work rather than just getting out on the bike a lot.

Stevieg2009

Its A great product the only problem I have is since I changed trainers I have gotten very bad power spikes all the time was on a tacx which I found to be quiet accurate for power since I changed to an elite is has been way off

JohnBee

Another recommendation here for trainer road.

One point: for all those worrying about accuracy of virtual power: DON'T! Even if not accurate, the main thing is that it is consistent. Thus once you do the FTP test at the start, your workouts will be an appropriate difficulty.

cheerspal

Very good John

I presume its the same with tire pressure, just make sure its the same from the starting point.

JohnBee

cheerspal wrote: »

Very good John

I presume its the same with tire pressure, just make sure its the same from the starting point.

Yes, should have mentioned this. Same tire pressure, AND ensure that when docking into turbo that you do it the same each time as this does effect difficulty. I use the cycleops fluid 2 which for docking uses a simple lever which is flipped up to engage resistance roller with wheel, which leaves very little room for variability. I know some have said where there is a lever to turn a number of times there is room for variability in resistance. However, either way this is never going to be a big enough difference to matter.

martyc5674

Do you need a power meter or some sort of link between turbo and computer for trainer road?

cheerspal

I have a lever on mine

You dont need a power meter as it can provide a virtual power meter based on your speed and turbo type you are on. See the below for what you will need.

http://www.trainerroad.com/equipment-checker

doozerie

JohnBee wrote: »

Yes, should have mentioned this. Same tire pressure, AND ensure that when docking into turbo that you do it the same each time as this does effect difficulty. I use the cycleops fluid 2 which for docking uses a simple lever which is flipped up to engage resistance roller with wheel, which leaves very little room for variability. I know some have said where there is a lever to turn a number of times there is room for variability in resistance. However, either way this is never going to be a big enough difference to matter.

The amount by which you turn the lever which determines pressure of the roller against your tyre really can make enough difference to matter. Even if you don't care about the absolute power numbers, you are likely to find that consistency between sessions goes out the window too if you do not adjust that pressure to close to the same amount each time.

I used a Tacx Flow turbo with TrainerRoad last year and found it very accurate when compared to my PowerTap output. This year I've been using a Kurt Kinetic Rock'n'Roll instead. The Kurt Kinetic Road Machine II used to be, and perhaps still is, cited by TrainerRoad as extremely accurate, I'm not sure whether the Rock'n'Roll shares the same power curve so it may or may not be as accurate. First time I used my Rock'n'Roll with my PowerTap wheel, the TrainerRoad figures consistently overestimated my power output by up to 45W or more at times. I'd rotated the tensioning knob 3 full revolutions that time.

Next time I rotated the knob 5 full revolutions and the accuracy was much better, the differences ranging up to 20W and even then that was only an occasional blip. That's a disparity of 25W+ between the two sessions, that's pretty significant. And that's with me putting out power at the low end of the range, someone pushing towards the high end of the typical power range might well experience an even greater disparity. Basically, the tension of the roller against the tyre is very important if you want any kind of repeatability.

Incidentally, I can't vouch for the true accuracy or otherwise of the Rock'n'Roll power profile. My third time using my PowerTap wheel on the turbo literally shredded the tyre (it was a well used Continental GP 4 Seasons 25mm tyre, but it still surprised me how badly it was damaged, it basically delaminated) so I haven't tried with that wheel again since I put a new tyre on it. I can certainly say that the power figures that TrainerRoad are displaying with this turbo "feel" about right for the effort I am putting in but, in fairness, I wouldn't have much faith in my ability to gauge my efforts like that - if I really trusted my ability to gauge my power output by feel alone then I wouldn't have bought a PowerTap to start with.

Anyway, I still like TrainerRoad a lot. Its database of workouts is great, not only does it give a lot of options to choose from when trying to decide what kind of turbo session to do, but lots of the workouts have instructions with them which contain a fair bit of useful information and tips on training generally. I've only briefly looked at their training plans but they look worth a further look too.

Basically, for me TrainerRoad is more than just a means of measuring power during a workout, it's far more useful than that. And if I really decided that its power measures were way off for my current turbo then I'd switch to doing its workouts by heart rate instead of virtual power, and I expect I'd get at least as much benefit from it.

It's practically impossible to make turbo sessions appealing, but TrainerRoad comes closer to achieving that than anything I've tried. For someone with better motivation than me they might even find themselves looking forward to turbo sessions with it (...or maybe not...!).

fcon

Started using TrainerRoad last night. Really helped give a bit of focus to a session. Felt I was pushing myself more than I would without the targets to hit.

Albag

cheerspal wrote: »

Watched a few videos and read reviews on it. Looks like an amazing product and well worth the money. Bought an Amt usb last night so hopefully will be up and running next week.

Where did you get the Ant USB?

cheerspal

Amazon

Hasn't arrived yet.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0050GL5GM/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

cheerspal

Got my ant usb today so started with the FTP 20 min test. Not going to lie it was pretty tough and was soaked by the end of it.

Very impressed with the software and also the comments during the ride. Not just thrown out there a bit of thought went into them.

Going to start a training plan tomorrow for a few weeks with a big ride OUTSIDE at the weekend. Hopefully will start to see some good results soon.

Taxuser1

excellent, almost convinced now.

the speed magnet on the garmin doesn't work. stupid question but is this a must have for use with Trainer Road or will the cadence sensor which picks up the data normally suffice ? the garmin headset picks up the speed outside by GPS but I dont' have any speed reading indoors on the turbo

my turbo is years old, a 2003 version, the Minoura MAG 500. Trainer Road says it has its data in its database, i'm just wondering whether old turbos which might have issues or the resistance is tweaked, are as reliable as new ones ?

jinkypolly

Taxuser1 wrote: »

excellent, almost convinced now.

the speed magnet on the garmin doesn't work. stupid question but is this a must have for use with Trainer Road or will the cadence sensor which picks up the data normally suffice ? the garmin headset picks up the speed outside by GPS but I dont' have any speed reading indoors on the turbo

my turbo is years old, a 2003 version, the Minoura MAG 500. Trainer Road says it has its data in its database, i'm just wondering whether old turbos which might have issues or the resistance is tweaked, are as reliable as new ones ?

I'm pretty sure you'll need both speed and cadence readings.

couerdelion

jinkypolly wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you'll need both speed and cadence readings.

Yes you will.

Which ever turbo you use doesn't really matter. Nor does the power figure coming out. The benefit is that the figure is reliable and constant.

So if you start and do a test and it's showing 100w and in 3 months time you do the same test and get 120w then you know you've improved by 20% - it doesn't really matter if your real wattage was 300w and you've improved to 360w unless you're wanting to compare to someone else - and even then power can vary across power meters.

bren_mc

Taxuser1 wrote: »

excellent, almost convinced now.

the speed magnet on the garmin doesn't work. stupid question but is this a must have for use with Trainer Road or will the cadence sensor which picks up the data normally suffice ? the garmin headset picks up the speed outside by GPS but I dont' have any speed reading indoors on the turbo

my turbo is years old, a 2003 version, the Minoura MAG 500. Trainer Road says it has its data in its database, i'm just wondering whether old turbos which might have issues or the resistance is tweaked, are as reliable as new ones ?

you definitely need to have the speed readings - as the virtual power is based on your speed.

You do have the GPS status set to off when you use it on the turbo?

It shouldn't really matter whether your turbo resistance curve differs a bit from what the trainer road database says. The important thing is that it gives a consistent resistance from one workout to next. For example it might be the case that trainer road will suggest your FTP has risen from 240 to 250 whereas the real figures are somewhat higher or lower. What matters is that it's increasing:)

skerry

Does anyone here use TrainerRoad with a PM? I know it's main market is for the PM-less folks out there but just wondering for would it be useful for adding a bit of structure to turbo sessions and taking the monotony out of them for the winter. Have a Stages PM myself and need to make the turbo somewhat interesting this winter.

Any other recommendations of software out there for use with PMs that will take the boredom out of turbo training?

trevorderuise

skerry wrote: »

Does anyone here use TrainerRoad with a PM? I know it's main market is for the PM-less folks out there but just wondering for would it be useful for adding a bit of structure to turbo sessions and taking the monotony out of them for the winter. Have a Stages PM myself and need to make the turbo somewhat interesting this winter.

Any other recommendations of software out there for use with PMs that will take the boredom out of turbo training?

Absolutely, I'd say a PM combined with a regular wind or fluid trainer is one of the most popular TR setups out there, and extremely effective. I use a PowerTap with a CycleOps Fluid trainer and I love it. I can have effective, structured training indoors, and then the same reliable and comparable power data when I'm doing workouts outdoors out on the road.

--
Professional Mtb Racer & Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool

JohnBee

skerry wrote: »

Any other recommendations of software out there for use with PMs that will take the boredom out of turbo training?

There might be, but (without wanting to sound like a trainer-road shill) why use anything else? TrainerRoad has a big user base with lots of fans.

PS just upgraded my indoor set up to a Wahoo Kickr. Highly recommended for anyone that wants to splash a bit of cash (was a pressie to myself for a new job).

munsterbear

Does anyone have a discount code for TrainerRoad. Time to sign back up for the winter.

Taxuser1

just to update on this.

Got the ANT+ chip from amazon quite quickly and Trainer Road is good to go. I have a 10 year old turbo but they have it on their database. After downloading the two files I was up and running in less than 5 minutes with all the data I'd ever need in front of me. However a pleasant surprise was to see that I could upload the Sufferfest videos directly within seconds so I've my data at the bottom and the videos running above it. Just when i couldn't wet myself any further, my old Garmin Edge 705 which I thought was past it, picks up the "trainer road power" on the head piece also, so if the head is down and you're just concentrating on a point in front of you, all your garmin data and your "power" numbers are on the head piece.

Just a note on the Edge 705, the new Garmin speed sensor does not work with it. You will need the old magnet and the GSC10 running smoothly. I didn't know that previously and ordered the new sensor only to have to send it back.

All pretty cool. Now to get the test done.... this weekend maybe