Is this house over priced?

crazy_kenny

I'm really interested in this house but think it is overpriced by 70k at least. Anyone have any opinions?


http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=603686&t_rd=1

djimi

Have a look on the property register and see what other similar properties in the area are selling for. Base your first offer accordingly and have an upper limit that you are not prepared to exceed.

crazy_kenny

I have been looking at the property price register but its hard to compare houses in the country as it does not give a property description or picture. The property price register is ideal for houses in estates that have house numbers.

The particular property is on daft.ie over 500 days and has never been lived in. It was built pre 2009 so does not meet newer building regulations. Would this be a valid reason for a reduced opening offer?

Thanks,
BK.

big_joe_joyce

be nearly a hundred grand

Procrastastudy

I wish I lived in Waterford!

Pawwed Rig

Procrastastudy wrote: »

I wish I lived in Waterford!

Be careful what you wish for:D

Dob74

crazy_kenny wrote: »

I'm really interested in this house but think it is overpriced by 70k at least. Anyone have any opinions?


http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=603686&t_rd=1

Nice gaff, 200k would be a good price to get it for.
Through in bid of 170k and see what happens. All they can say is no.
Was talking to an auctioneer not one house he knows has made list price since 07.
So that's a starting price to come down.

golden lane

the cost of a house, is what you are willing to pay for it.........what it is worth, is what somebody else is willing to pay for it....

Pawwed Rig

golden lane wrote: »

the cost of a house, is what you are willing to pay for it.........what it is worth, is what somebody else is willing to pay for it....

You always here this said but with all respect it is useless information. When you are looking to buy a house you are restricted by a budget so you want to get the best house you can for that budget. If I have 200K it may only get me an apartment or else it might get me a 4 bed room house. Either of which I could buy if I was looking for somewhere to live. People work hard for their money and want to get the best they can for what they are paying for.

Forest Demon

When looking also take into consideration the finish of the house. The house you linked as far as I can tell in there is a really nice finish to it. It also seems like a lovely location.

Property registers do not take into account the likes of the cost of installing a nice kitchen like in the link, landscaping gardens, potential problems such as rewiring, damp, guttering etc. Location to work is a huge issue now with transport costs also getting so expensive. This is never going to go down.

I think this house in the current market is worth 200 to 225 but could be worth the asking due to the views and finish. There are loads of houses for around that budget so don't stretch yourself too far.

If you can afford the repayments easily and are happy with the location and house then go for it. Don't stretch yourself and remember that life goes on after buying a house. The novelty wears off and a large mortgage can become a burden.

Don't mind all the people that tell you its worth 100k or what people will pay. There is value in the materials that went into a house. If you buy an old house and try and put any combination of kitchen, plumbing, wiring, insulation, roof, windows, plastering, floorboards, heating into it and see how much it costs.

That's a really nice house but don't forget that there are loads of really nice houses around for quarter of a million.

NIMAN

Not sure about the area and value of houses there, but thats a nice looking place.

the_syco

Looking at the first picture, I see a lot of dark patches which I'd be guessing would be mould, and thus would wonder what the inside was like before they put on a fresh coat of paint?

crazy_kenny

the_syco wrote: »

Looking at the first picture, I see a lot of dark patches which I'd be guessing would be mould, and thus would wonder what the inside was like before they put on a fresh coat of paint?

I can't see the dark patches your talking about. The house has never being lived in but is built I think around 3 or 4 years. I'm not sure if the heating is set to come on or not. I'm going to view in January so will report back then.

xper

To be honest, I don't see anything in the first picture that looks like anything other than normal slightly uneven drying but its relly too far to tell. A structural survey as part of the normal purchase process should be definitive on that.

Just my tupence worth, this does not strike me as a particularly fantastic house. Given the large site and the views available, it seems like an a bit of a missed opportunity. The design is boxy and old-fashioned. The T-shape creates lots of outer walls to insulate but also manages to restrict the view from several rooms. At 220 sq meters, I think i'd expect another downstairs family room or something similar or at least have the living room and dining/kitchen link together better. The windows are on the small side. Which way is south? You should be able to tell from an abundance of glass on that side but you can't. The hall and landing are stupidly big and badly lit, the latter's centre-stage location forcing a compromise of having the main bathroom and a bedroom eat into each other's space. The kitchen seems to have the best view which is very 1950's. I like the kitchen fit out (apart from the maneuver-restricting 'lockers' either side of the hob). I don't like the internal door/skirting finish but that's purely my personal taste. Was an architect involved at all?

Overall, its okay, but for 250k, you could have done better on that site and I would imagine you could find better witin a similar distance of Waterford city.

Rasmus

the_syco wrote: »

Looking at the first picture, I see a lot of dark patches which I'd be guessing would be mould, and thus would wonder what the inside was like before they put on a fresh coat of paint?

What dark patches? The exterior of the house (the grey part) appears to be unfinished - it needs a paint.
It is a lovely house OP, what is the neighbourhood like? I think it is very difficult to decide what to offer without taking all the variables into account -including location, proximity to facilities, energy efficiency, built quality etc.
The asking price is way inflated though of course, but what property isn't?

froger

It is a subjective thing on what you are willing to pay. Look at the build costs in the area. How much would it cost to rebuild? How much is land selling for in the area? In no way is it worth what they are looking for it. Most importantly is that can you afford it, and will you live there for 10+ years. As selling something like that will take a long long time if you need to move.

Personally I don't like the house, it sums up all of what is wrong with Irish housing, big "nun attack" sitting in a sea of grass on a large site, most likely elevated, to create as much impact on the land as possible. So I would think it is worth not much at all.

Pawwed Rig

There is alot of wasted space in that house. The entrance hall and landing are enormous whereas the actual living areas are relatively small.
I agree with the previous poster about the external walls. It will take alot to heat this place so get your own BER done. I wouldn't rely on one provided by any estate agent.
Also a dressing area??? WTF is that. A seperate room to get dressed in?:D Seems to be a bit of Celtic Tiger BS going on in the design of that place. Also there seems to be no fitted wardrobes in a couple of the bedrooms (which are expensive). Kitchen looks good.
Alot of mowing in that lawn

crazy_kenny

I have being doing a little research into this house. I went onto the online planning system on the Waterford county council website. Planning permission was received in 2003. Im not totally sure when construction started but I think it needs to at roof level within 5 years.

It was designed by an engineer not an architect.

I'm starting to have second thoughts about the house myself as it only has ofch which is expenive to run. I would also be worried also about the insulation levels in the house which I'm sure would be below the current standards. I also see a very familiar company in Munster which has some unfavorable reviews installed the windows.

Pawwed Rig

crazy_kenny wrote: »

It was designed by an engineer not an architect. .

That would explain the poor use of space.

It has OFCH? What heating would you think it would have?

makeorbrake

crazy_kenny wrote: »

It was designed by an engineer not an architect.

Are you surprised by that? It was (and probably still is?) common practice in Ireland. Judge it as it stands. The design is there to be seen and structurally, you will have to get your own report done in any case.

crazy_kenny wrote: »

I'm starting to have second thoughts about the house myself as it only has ofch which is expenive to run.

As above - what would you suggest otherwise? What alternative is there? Geothermal? If so, I would be looking into that with a higher level of scrutiny if that's what the house had - as the implementation of geothermal systems in Ireland (from what I understand - and what has been posted on boards and elsewhere) has been pretty scary! i.e. people with mega electricity bills as a consequence.
If that's a concern, then airtightness (you could get an airtightness test done - but it will cost you) is equally (and probably much more..) important. Additionally - insulation levels - and what that appears to be - and what it actually is in practice.

If heating costs/energy efficiency are a concern, then you're going to have this issue regardless of which house you consider. Due to the nature of irish building practices, there are just so many shortcuts that may have been taken that you won't know about until it's too late. Even then, you may not see exactly what's at issue. Do you know anything about the builder? Did they build any other houses around that time - and what is the build quality? Could you ask those people now think re. build quality and heating costs?

crazy_kenny wrote: »

I also see a very familiar company in Munster which has some unfavorable reviews installed the windows.

M.J.? Sure - again, are you surprised? Plenty of 'good stuff' like that used. Particularly so - if the house was built with the intention to sell from day 1. In my own house (2005 build), windows (not M.J. - but still 'muck') are very poor quality.

I'm the opposite end of the country - so don't know what the local market is like. However, that's a lot of money that your considering spending - so proceed carefully. The day you're buying is the day you're selling - a cliche - but very true. With that in mind, one-off houses generally are more difficult to shift...

Luca Brasi

Whatever about this particular house in the present climate (except where there is a housing shorthage) an initial bid of 20% less should be opener and then dont go beyond 15 % less. Plenty of other options

crazy_kenny

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That would explain the poor use of space.

It has OFCH? What heating would you think it would have?

I was making the point that new builds, building to the current regs have additional insulation levels, better air tightness and also solar or another green energy. The usage of oil or gas is reduced compared to this house.

Are you surprised by that? It was (and probably still is?) common practice in Ireland. Judge it as it stands. The design is there to be seen and structurally, you will have to get your own report done in any case.

I am a little surprised. I taught if you were building a new house employing a good architect would be top of the list.

As above - what would you suggest otherwise? What alternative is there? Geothermal? If so, I would be looking into that with a higher level of scrutiny if that's what the house had - as the implementation of geothermal systems in Ireland (from what I understand - and what has been posted on boards and elsewhere) has been pretty scary! i.e. people with mega electricity bills as a consequence

Definitely would not put in geothermal. Running 10 or 15 kw pump does not appeal to me.

makeorbrake

crazy_kenny wrote: »

I was making the point that new builds, building to the current regs have additional insulation levels, better air tightness and also solar or another green energy. The usage of oil or gas is reduced compared to this house.

Well, if that house had planning granted in '03 then yes, regs have changed since - so there would be a difference there. However, even when you are assessing a property that was built based on current regs, there are lots of things in that regard that simply cannot be proven to be done right or otherwise. That's why checking out the builders form would be very much worthwhile (whether in relation to this property or another).

riclad

Anyone thats selling a house has to get a ber energy rating,which you can see before you buy
Most rural houses have ofch .
its possible to put in solar panels on the roof which will provide hot water ,and heating ,most of the year ,apart from the winter months.Takes about 7 to 10 years to repay installation cost.

Henry Ford III

Why would you be "really interested" with ahouse that's €70k overpriced?

p.s. Go and view it. Talk to the estate agent. There's only so much you'll learn on the internet. Get the BER cert. Ask how long has it been for sale, and when the asking price was last adjusted.

Pawwed Rig

riclad wrote: »

Anyone thats selling a house has to get a ber energy rating,which you can see before you buy

Does a BER really tell you anything? Unless the surveyor has used the heat loss camera on a cold day with the heating on in the house then a BER is worthless. The only other way to check that the insulation is good is to pull the house apart.
Just because it is in the plans does not mean it is in the house. However this is an issue with every house not just the one in this thread

trxking

of course it is you would get a 4 bed semi in Dublin in a decent area for that

riclad

its overpriced ,if you wanna buy it put in a low bid,you may be the only bidder.
What are 4 year old houses going for in that area?Houses that were built to modern insulation standards.

BryanF

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Does a BER really tell you anything? Unless the surveyor has used the heat loss camera on a cold day with the heating on in the house then a BER is worthless. The only other way to check that the insulation is good is to pull the house apart.
Just because it is in the plans does not mean it is in the house. However this is an issue with every house not just the one in this thread

A BER Whether you feel it is entirely accurate or not, must be presented prior to sale. It's another tool to assess a houses energy/ comfort and hence the price you would be willing to pay.

Pawwed Rig

Yes and your point is.............

stepbar

According to the SCSI rebuild calculator the rebuild cost would be c280k!!! (not including the additions that have been made as per photos) - http://www.scsi.ie/about_us/rebuildcalculator

However, in this area there is only 3 4/5 bed houses for rent. Based on the highest one (800p.m http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1293807) the "economic" value would be (800 x 12 month less 10% for expenses) / Rent Yield (In my opinion is 9%+ - for this I will use 9%) * 100 = c118.5k. Of course, you wouldn't even build it the house for that.

Aside of the cost of the build (which is my opinion is immaterial if there is no demand / the house shouldn't have been built in the first place), I would be starting off around 120k and moving towards 150k (assuming that the house will be utilised as a family home).

socco

Rather than create a new thread I've added to the end of this as its a similar question.

I'm considering an offer for a place kind of like this in Kilkenny city: http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=670201

from checking the ppr in 2012 four houses in the area sold from 130k to 140k I know the one that sold for 140k was a 4 bedroom though. With MIR now gone though and property tax coming in i'm unsure what kind of offer to consider on this type of property.

what would people consider if they were going to buy it? I was considering asking price less 10%. Does this seem reasonable?

StillWaters

socco wrote: »

Rather than create a new thread I've added to the end of this as its a similar question.

I'm considering an offer for a place kind of like this in Kilkenny city: http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=670201

from checking the ppr in 2012 four houses in the area sold from 130k to 140k I know the one that sold for 140k was a 4 bedroom though. With MIR now gone though and property tax coming in i'm unsure what kind of offer to consider on this type of property.

what would people consider if they were going to buy it? I was considering asking price less 10%. Does this seem reasonable?

I don't know the Market in the area. That's a nice house. I think going in at -10% is a good first offer, but depending on the vendors circumstances I can't see them accepting less than the lowest price on the register, ie 130.

Gosub

Is the rooftop garden included in the price?:p

socco

Gosub wrote: »

Is the rooftop garden included in the price?:p

I assume you mean the gutters ? haha hadn't even noticed that at first until you mentioned it!

makeorbrake

socco wrote: »

what would people consider if they were going to buy it? I was considering asking price less 10%. Does this seem reasonable?

I don't know what the property market is like in your area. However, over on the property pin discussion board, someone has taken the raw data and plotted asking prices against actual sales prices. Of course there is a spectrum but on average, the majority went for 15% below asking.

johndaman66

stepbar wrote: »

According to the SCSI rebuild calculator the rebuild cost would be c280k!!! (not including the additions that have been made as per photos) - http://www.scsi.ie/about_us/rebuildcalculator

However, in this area there is only 3 4/5 bed houses for rent. Based on the highest one (800p.m http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1293807) the "economic" value would be (800 x 12 month less 10% for expenses) / Rent Yield (In my opinion is 9%+ - for this I will use 9%) * 100 = c118.5k. Of course, you wouldn't even build it the house for that.

Which very much highlights the fact that using the rent yield method to determine the monetary value of houses in the countryside where there is at best a very weak rental market is pointless...a point I've made on this forum more than once.

I'm not overly familiar with County Waterford and what that particular area is like but on the face of that house seems a fair bit overpriced to me. Although I have seen much worse the design does not do much for me. As a few others have mentioned it would seem that space has being utilised pretty poorly. While I like a nice wide hallway that one seems pointlessly wide. Overall light seems poor in the house. This is probably due to the smallish windows...a criticism you could level against many new houses. Be prepared to set aside a lot of time for mowing that lawn in the season where there is strong growth if you want to keep the place looking neat and tidy. I must conceed that the kitchen is pretty nice. Is that worth a quarter of a million in Waterford...I wouldn't think so

crazy_kenny, IMO it is overpriced. Also, you would have to factor in the cost of building a garage. There are an awful lot of nooks and crannies in it, the wasted space would kill me. Also, big gardens are not everything, take into consideration the amount of hours in the longer evenings you will spend cutting the grass - my husband could add many curses you may never have heard before here