Super high resolution TVs (I know off topic...)

Bullseye1

But since we are all movie fans and enjoy movies both at home and in he cinema it is worth a discussion. I was just up at Harvey Normans, Carrickmines and they have an LG Super high resolution 4K. The picture was outstanding. I got talking with the LG Rep and asked him what content was available currently in 4k and he stated YouTube has content?? Then I brought up download speeds in this country being a problem....etc and we eventually got onto Blu Ray and its suitability on this set and he mentioned that there will be a super resolution blu ray player coming out in the near future. If the picture quality is anything to go by we are in for a treat. Certainly worth a visit to see this set folks.

mike65

Price of a car isn't it?

johnny_ultimate

4K sets aren't going to even approach widespread viability for a few years yet. The content simply isn't there, and the prices are obscene (five figures territory temporarily at least). Apart from a few sample videos on youtube, there's nothing out there to take advantage of the resolution.

Then there are the practical problems. 4K footage is massive in terms of file size - we're talking terabytes worth of material here per film, unless its heavily compressed - so there's going to have to be a lot of work done to successfully give viewers access to the footage. With significant area of the country still unable to even handle adequately HD streaming, Internet speeds are naturally not up to the pressure. Also think the size of TV / projection necessary to get the most out of 4K footage is going to be an issue. 42" is not going to give you the full effect, and even anything over 40" is simply too impractical for a lot of households. The size of a proper cinema screen is the one thing home cinema can never hope to replicate, even in the nicest A/V setups.

Still, when the technology has caught up, it'll be interesting. 4K is pretty much where we need to be at is going to get the best quality replications of existing films. 35mm is roughly equivalent to 4-5K (very roughly - they're not really completely comparable) so anything above that will only ever benefit future productions produced in 5K or beyond. 4K is a plateau of sorts, and hopefully the quest for resolution will slow down once its widespread enough. Masters of Cinema have a nice & simple little spiel in their brochures about how 4K is going to be the ideal for classic cinema transfers. It could be the next generation of games consoles that lead the way, once again. Will be interesting to hear with Microsoft and Sony have planned over the next year or so.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Ha I was up there today too. Heard him giving his spiel to people several times going past him. Apparently the remote is similar to a wiimote and you can also use voice commands. It did look very impressive tbh.

Oafley Jones

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

4K sets aren't going to even approach widespread viability for a few years yet. The content simply isn't there, and the prices are obscene (five figures territory temporarily at least). Apart from a few sample videos on youtube, there's nothing out there to take advantage of the resolution.

Then there are the practical problems. 4K footage is massive in terms of file size - we're talking terabytes worth of material here per film, unless its heavily compressed - so there's going to have to be a lot of work done to successfully give viewers access to the footage. With significant area of the country still unable to even handle adequately HD streaming, Internet speeds are naturally not up to the pressure. Also think the size of TV / projection necessary to get the most out of 4K footage is going to be an issue. 42" is not going to give you the full effect, and even anything over 40" is simply too impractical for a lot of households. The size of a proper cinema screen is the one thing home cinema can never hope to replicate, even in the nicest A/V setups.

Still, when the technology has caught up, it'll be interesting. 4K is pretty much where we need to be at is going to get the best quality replications of existing films. 35mm is roughly equivalent to 4-5K (very roughly - they're not really completely comparable) so anything above that will only ever benefit future productions produced in 5K or beyond. 4K is a plateau of sorts, and hopefully the quest for resolution will slow down once its widespread enough. Masters of Cinema have a nice & simple little spiel in their brochures about how 4K is going to be the ideal for classic cinema transfers. It could be the next generation of games consoles that lead the way, once again. Will be interesting to hear with Microsoft and Sony have planned over the next year or so.

There isn't a hope in hell that either MS or Sonys next machines will have anything to do with 4K. Id be surprised if it was on the table for the generation after either. Whatever the problems associated with film, the issues are doubly so for gaming, they've at the very most ambitions for 60fps 1080.

Remember we're still at a stage where HD content for the likes of Sky etc is still 720p.

johnny_ultimate

Oafley Jones wrote: »

There isn't a hope in hell that either MS or Sonys next machines will have anything to do with 4K. Id be surprised if it was on the table for the generation after either. Whatever the problems associated with film, the issues are doubly so for gaming, they've at the very most ambitions for 60fps 1080.

Remember we're still at a stage where HD content for the likes of Sky etc is still 720p.

There is a lot of talk about them having 4K resolution supported, although probably the same way a DVD is upscaled on a HDTV. I'm just curious to see what kind of tech they'll be pushing in terms of, say, online distribution or physical formats. If they stick with standard Blu-Ray - which is, in all likelihood, going to happen - then higher resolution (even 2K) doesn't stand a hope of wider penetration. I do think its going to be up to the console manufacturers to push tech forward - they're a big part of the reason DVD and Blu-Ray ultimately succeeded and a HDTV became an appealing purchase for many consumers.

Bullseye1

It is €27,000 for the 84" LG model. There is a Panasonic and Sharp 8K set which were shown at CES. I agree we are some time away from these being he norm. I think I read somewhere that 2020 is the date they hope to have these as standard. I guess I won't need glasses after all. LOL.

The content shown was Ariel views of Paris and other landscapes. The detail was amazing. I can only imagine the 8K which is the equal to IMAX 70mm.

sink

Apparently the human eye can not distinguish resolutions higher than 8k, so 8k will be the absolute ceiling of what is required and that's for a screen designed to take up your entire field of vision like a cinema screen. As most homes will never have enough space to fit a TV of that size 4K is likely to be the practical limit of TV. You're far more likely to see home cinema projectors of 8K.

4K is roughly equivalent to 4 X 1080p and 8K is roughly equivalent to 16 X 1080p.

Bullseye1

I recall when something like a 40" plasma where selling for €12-€15 k and some of the higher end Pioneers over €20k. Once these start selling in their numbers prices reduce pretty quickly. As some have said above its the size and practicality which may prevent the really large sets taking off. Not many huge living rooms in this country. Plenty in the US however.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Piece from BBC's Click programme at the end of November about Japan's NHK development of the 8K format. NHK's senior engineer echoes what sink says above about there is no further need to go past 8K as it is at the limit of what the human eye can distinguish.

NHK believes there is no need for 3D with 8K. Not needed as one can get so close to the image it effectively gives a 100 degree viewing field (same as the eye).

Also NHK dont want to do 3D either because of the possible effects of it on childrens health. NHK propose to go straight to 8K broadcasting from the current HD format. Not planning to do 4K.

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/9774380.stm

latenia

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

There is a lot of talk about them having 4K resolution supported, although probably the same way a DVD is upscaled on a HDTV.

My mid-range receiver bought last year can upscale to 4k from 1080p, dunno what use it's going to be though.

Sony have a 4k TV that comes with a hard-drive/media server with 10 4k films (all sony films including spiderman), it also comes with a sony tablet as a remote.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/01/sony-xbr-4k-led-ultra-hdtv-hands-on/

Sad Professor

4k televisions seem like overkill to me considering that most digital cinema projectors are still only 2k. Higher resolutions have a lot to offer theatrically, but once you start going over 2k in the home I think you're into diminishing returns. So I can't see 4k content ever really taking off. Blu-ray is dangerously at risk of becoming a niche format as it is. Most people are happy to watch heavily compressed 720p rips on their computer or television screens. They want convenience more than they want quality. Even putting aside the content issues, I can't see 4k televisions becoming widespread anytime soon. The next big thing in television isn't super high resolutions, it's smart tvs, like whatever Apple/whoever is about to come up with. Televisions that use the internet and interact with people's digital devices.

astrofool

Sad Professor wrote: »

4k televisions seem like overkill to me considering that most digital cinema projectors are still only 2k. Higher resolutions have a lot to offer theatrically, but once you start going over 2k in the home I think you're into diminishing returns. So I can't see 4k content ever really taking off. Blu-ray is dangerously at risk of becoming a niche format as it is. Most people are happy to watch heavily compressed 720p rips on their computer or television screens. They want convenience more than they want quality. Even putting aside the content issues, I can't see 4k televisions becoming widespread anytime soon. The next big thing in television isn't super high resolutions, it's smart tvs, like whatever Apple/whoever is about to come up with. Televisions that use the internet and interact with people's digital devices.

The smart TV's will have a 4k display by default in a few years because whoever doesn't use them will have be at a feature disadvantage, internet will catch up to be able to deliver that quality as well, I think you're seriously misjudging the way the market will go

Also bear in mind that all displays are going high dpi from smartphone up, they simply won't make lower dpi screens any more (which all come from the same few factories anyway).

krudler

Sad Professor wrote: »

4k televisions seem like overkill to me considering that most digital cinema projectors are still only 2k. Higher resolutions have a lot to offer theatrically, but once you start going over 2k in the home I think you're into diminishing returns. So I can't see 4k content ever really taking off. Blu-ray is dangerously at risk of becoming a niche format as it is. Most people are happy to watch heavily compressed 720p rips on their computer or television screens. They want convenience more than they want quality. Even putting aside the content issues, I can't see 4k televisions becoming widespread anytime soon. The next big thing in television isn't super high resolutions, it's smart tvs, like whatever Apple/whoever is about to come up with. Televisions that use the internet and interact with people's digital devices.

My tv in my room is only 21" sits at the foot of my bed and its grand, 720p rips look perfectly fine on it, , have a decent pair of Sennheisers that give great sound running through the ps3 as well so its a handy little setup for me. If I had a bigger sitting room I'd invest in a big tv but have no need for one right now, when I win the lotto though :pac:

One advantage of 4k display is that passive 3D on a 1080p set gives you just 1920x540 per eye. With a 4k display you can lose half the vertical resolution and still deliver 3840x1080 per eye. So when watching 3D 1080p content you still get every bit of detail.

I don't know if that's going to be a big selling point because 3D was a bit of a failure anyway.

Sad Professor

Sad Professor wrote: »

4k televisions seem like overkill to me considering that most digital cinema projectors are still only 2k. Higher resolutions have a lot to offer theatrically, but once you start going over 2k in the home I think you're into diminishing returns. So I can't see 4k content ever really taking off. Blu-ray is dangerously at risk of becoming a niche format as it is. Most people are happy to watch heavily compressed 720p rips on their computer or television screens. They want convenience more than they want quality. Even putting aside the content issues, I can't see 4k televisions becoming widespread anytime soon. The next big thing in television isn't super high resolutions, it's smart tvs, like whatever Apple/whoever is about to come up with. Televisions that use the internet and interact with people's digital devices.

Isn't 2K basically just 1080p though?