Some Irish pro shooting media for a change!

Grizzly 45

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2012/1219/3455893-easter-rising-weapons-fired-in-attempt-to-explore-battle-of-mount-street/

Nice to see these old guns being fired again...Pity its very difficult if not downright impossible to liscense them almost 100 years later.:(

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/2012/1219/3455893-easter-rising-weapons-fired-in-attempt-to-explore-battle-of-mount-street/

Nice to see these old guns being fired again...Pity its very difficult if not downright impossible to liscense them almost 100 years later.:(

It is indeed a great pity that firearms like the Mauser and C96 pistol are so difficult to get to shoot, but I'm not altogether sure what they are trying to prove. The Model 71/84 was a well-established and very successful rifle used by Germany and Austro-Hungary and really does not need proving to see if it really does make holes in targets. As for 'testing' the .303 Lee-Enfield.......you only have to look 400 miles to the east in 1916 to see how well THEY functioned under battle conditions.

I'm sure they all had great fun shooting these historic firearms again in the interests of 're-evaluation' but surely there was never any doubt about their effectiveness against soft-skinned targets.

If they had said 'C'mon lads, let's have a some great craic shooting these ould guns again' I'd have been more impressed, instead of dressing it up in a haze of mystique.

tac

PS - go to tac's guns on Youtube and you'll see a few older guns, like the Mauser, being fired.

deeksofdoom

tac foley wrote: »

It is indeed a great pity that firearms like the Mauser and C96 pistol are so difficult to get to shoot, but I'm not altogether sure what they are trying to prove. The Model 71/84 was a well-established and very successful rifle used by Germany and Austro-Hungary and really does not need proving to see if it really does make holes in targets. As for 'testing' the .303 Lee-Enfield.......you only have to look 400 miles to the east in 1916 to see how well THEY functioned under battle conditions.

I'm sure they all had great fun shooting these historic firearms again in the interests of 're-evaluation' but surely there was never any doubt about their effectiveness against soft-skinned targets.

If they had said 'C'mon lads, let's have a some great craic shooting these ould guns again' I'd have been more impressed, instead of dressing it up in a haze of mystique.

tac

PS - go to tac's guns on Youtube and you'll see a few older guns, like the Mauser, being fired.

Yeah, you'ld wonder what are they trying to prove alright.

Grizzly 45

You would indeed wonder...Damn I always wanted a Mauser broomhandle or a Luger carbine.:(
Wonder would it be possible to liscense a Mauser broom handle carbine here as a classic??Basically the Mauser broomhandle action with a longer barrel and permanent fixed stock.Likewise the Luger,as it had an over 12 in barrel??

tac foley

Well, FAS, either of them are 'only' a centre-fire carbine - so long as you have the stock/holster attached to it. Sadly, the Mauser C96 barrel is still the usual less-than-12", no matter what you do to the other end. The P08 carbine has a longer barrel, for sure, and is also found in both .30cal Luger and 9mm Para. Like the C96, the Luger carbine has a removable stock, not a fixed one, and you'd really be screwing the historical value up if you welded the two bits together to make it one-piece.

The only little flies in the ointment are

1. Finding either in the RoI.

2. Finding the necessary funds.

But I would imagine that with the large amounts of money being spent this year in the RoI - see the what I'm getting for Christmas' thread over the way - the odd eu5-10K is hardly worth mentioning for most of you.

As for licensing it in the RoI - well, I didn't know that you had a category of 'classic' in your firearms laws - all firearms used by meself and fellow classic firearms shooters in the VCRAI have them down as 'target' firearms. However, you can be certain that me and the rest of the lads in the VCRAI would welcome you with open arms if you were to join us with either or both of them. You might ask John Kavanagh at Fingal to find one for you, or at least look into it.

tac

PS - Sure do hope you have a friendly Super.

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You would indeed wonder...Damn I always wanted a Mauser broomhandle or a Luger carbine.:(
Wonder would it be possible to liscense a Mauser broom handle carbine here as a classic??Basically the Mauser broomhandle action with a longer barrel and permanent fixed stock.Likewise the Luger,as it had an over 12 in barrel??

Grizzly, I suppose there would still be two restriction criteria to be negotiated being caliber and semi auto but it would make it a lot less impossible than it would be in it's pistol configuration. It would probably be the same with an artillery model Luger if you could somehow make the stock a permanently fixed feature.

tac foley

meathstevie wrote: »

Grizzly, I suppose there would still be two restriction criteria to be negotiated being caliber and semi auto but it would make it a lot less impossible than it would be in it's pistol configuration. It would probably be the same with an artillery model Luger if you could somehow make the stock a permanently fixed feature.

Sadly, the PO8 Lange - the correct designation for the so-called Artillery Luger - has only an 8" barrel - so would be VERY hard to license in the RoI, if at all. Right now, in your law, it is a military-calibre seven-shot pistol. Pinning the magazine [that's probably an average of eu150-250 magazine, BTW] and welding the stock to the frame would destroy any subsequent value to ANY collector down the line. There are no more of these guns than presently exist....

Good luck there.

tac

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

Well, FAS, either of them are 'only' a centre-fire carbine - so long as you have the stock/holster attached to it. Sadly, the Mauser C96 barrel is still the usual less-than-12", no matter what you do to the other end. The P08 carbine has a longer barrel, for sure, and is also found in both .30cal Luger and 9mm Para. Like the C96, the Luger carbine has a removable stock, not a fixed one, and you'd really be screwing the historical value up if you welded the two bits together to make it one-piece.

The only little flies in the ointment are

1. Finding either in the RoI.

2. Finding the necessary funds.

But I would imagine that with the large amounts of money being spent this year in the RoI - see the what I'm getting for Christmas' thread over the way - the odd eu5-10K is hardly worth mentioning for most of you.

As for licensing it in the RoI - well, I didn't know that you had a category of 'classic' in your firearms laws - all firearms used by meself and fellow classic firearms shooters in the VCRAI have them down as 'target' firearms. However, you can be certain that me and the rest of the lads in the VCRAI would welcome you with open arms if you were to join us with either or both of them. You might ask John Kavanagh at Fingal to find one for you, or at least look into it.

tac

PS - Sure do hope you have a friendly Super.

Indeed and very true..It would be a mortal sin for anyone to go and butcher an original mag or an original Lange or Marine Luger by welding it up.

I was thinking more along one of these for the Mauser carbine.
http://home.kpn.nl/vlimmere/carbines.htm
Or better said one of the repros in around the 1000 euro mark.


There is this inventive German chap who builds old patents as a gun maker.His Luger carbine is based on an original for Kaiser Whillhelm no 2, for hunting as he had a disfigured left arm from birth and was unable to use a bolt action rifle..
He also does a box loaded Garand as well.Based on a patent of the late 1940s.Not to bad in price either around 2,500 euros for that modern ....shudderr...Luger carbine that looks like a union with a M16:eek:.
http://www.waffen-werle.de/index.htm

If I ever get around to vintage rifles,think a nice 30 m1 carbine or Walther K43[repro] that could do double duty for hunting would be my cuppa tae.:p

IRLConor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If I ever get around to vintage rifles,think a nice 30 m1 carbine

I shot one of these a few years ago (repro) and it was great fun. Very hard to shoot without grinning like an eejit.

If I had more time for fun shooting and a friendlier FO I'd consider getting one.

cookimonster

Sadly I know of at least one of the mentioned pair a Mauser broomhandle or a Luger plus afew other hand guns that went over the cliffs in Howth under the instructions of my Grandfather when he got older back in the late 1970's.
There was always dispute over which one he carried during the War of Independence, but we knew it had a wooden holster that doubled for a stock.
His method of carry was two large pockets sowen inside his over coat which allowed for both concealment and easy access while operating in suburban and city areas.

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed and very true..It would be a mortal sin for anyone to go and butcher an original mag or an original Lange or Marine Luger by welding it up.

I was thinking more along one of these for the Mauser carbine.
http://home.kpn.nl/vlimmere/carbines.htm
Or better said one of the repros in around the 1000 euro mark.


There is this inventive German chap who builds old patents as a gun maker.His Luger carbine is based on an original for Kaiser Whillhelm no 2, for hunting as he had a disfigured left arm from birth and was unable to use a bolt action rifle..
He also does a box loaded Garand as well.Based on a patent of the late 1940s.Not to bad in price either around 2,500 euros for that modern ....shudderr...Luger carbine that looks like a union with a M16:eek:.
http://www.waffen-werle.de/index.htm

If I ever get around to vintage rifles,think a nice 30 m1 carbine or Walther K43[repro] that could do double duty for hunting would be my cuppa tae.:p

That chap's sporterised Garand would be some boar gun.

Grizzly 45

I'd say it is ...;) Ten shot of 308 or 30.06... ,box for 308 stripper clip for 30.06 Micro holo sight and/or scope mount in a "tanker garand" package.
Just what you need when it gets busy on a "Sau jagd".:D

Grizzly 45

cookimonster wrote: »

Sadly I know of at least one of the mentioned pair a Mauser broomhandle or a Luger plus afew other hand guns that went over the cliffs in Howth under the instructions of my Grandfather when he got older back in the late 1970's.
There was always dispute over which one he carried during the War of Independence, but we knew it had a wooden holster that doubled for a stock.
His method of carry was two large pockets sowen inside his over coat which allowed for both concealment and easy access while operating in suburban and city areas.

Well your Grandad had the true spirt of the old Irish Celtic warrior..:)
In olden times if a Irish warrior was defeated or forced to surrender,they destroyed their weapons in front of their enemies before surrendering or put them "beyond use" in some way.So that they could never be used against them by their enemies,and that they could prove that they never willingly handed over their weapons and were totally defeated.

Could have been either Luger or Mauser as both could accept stocks.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'd say it is ...;) Ten shot of 308 or 30.06... ,box for 308 stripper clip for 30.06 Micro holo sight and/or scope mount in a "tanker garand" package.
Just what you need when it gets busy on a "Sau jagd".:D

Not really in the spirit of 'vintage' or 'classic', is it?

tac

Grizzly 45

What?A "Tanker" Garand isnt acceptable???:p

tac foley

'Micro/holo' sight?

'.308 tanker Garand'?

ANY 'tanker' Garand?

Sir - There never was such a rifle/carbine in series production. The experimental, shortened version of the M1 Garand rifle was designated the T26, and used the standard solid stock, but with a shorter barrel of only 18". The Tanker name was also used after the war as a marketing gimmick for commercially modified Garands.

So, apart from the anachronistic sights, and the fact that the only 'Tanker Garands' in existence were a made-up marketing ploy, they are, indeed, a classic.

A classic fraud, that is.

However, don't let ownership of one stop you from joining the VCRAI - I'm sure there are some pretty oddball guns there if you look hard enough.

tac

Grizzly 45

Well done that man!!
Not many people know about that as Micheal Caine once said.:p
100% true about the tanker Garand,
OK,if I ever get one..I promise I wont bring it with holo sights to any VCARI shoot.Unless the vintage "other" semis ever get off the ground.:D

Now a quick brain teaser for those into their Garands.
When the Beretta who made the Garand under liscense in .308 in the 1950s had to compete against the American M1a/M14 for the home market,what did they [1] produce and [2] how different is it from the Garand???
Answer.... St Stevens night or earlier if you know!:D

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well done that man!!
Not many people know about that as Micheal Caine once said.:p
100% true about the tanker Garand,
OK,if I ever get one..I promise I wont bring it with holo sights to any VCARI shoot.Unless the vintage "other" semis ever get off the ground.:D

Now a quick brain teaser for those into their Garands.
When the Beretta who made the Garand under liscense in .308 in the 1950s had to compete against the American M1a/M14 for the home market,what did they [1] produce and [2] how different is it from the Garand???
Answer.... St Stevens night or earlier if you know!:D

Please Sir, I know!:D

But I'll let a real Irish person have the fun of telling us all.

tac - former Springfield Armory M1A owner and still a 1945 Rock Island M1 Garand owner.

Grizzly 45

REAL Irish???Moi???
I'm a Heinz 57 varities genuine MUTT!!:D

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well done that man!!
Not many people know about that as Micheal Caine once said.:p
100% true about the tanker Garand,
OK,if I ever get one..I promise I wont bring it with holo sights to any VCARI shoot.Unless the vintage "other" semis ever get off the ground.:D

Now a quick brain teaser for those into their Garands.
When the Beretta who made the Garand under liscense in .308 in the 1950s had to compete against the American M1a/M14 for the home market,what did they [1] produce and [2] how different is it from the Garand???
Answer.... St Stevens night or earlier if you know!:D

BM59, pretty much a detachable magazine variant of the M1 in 7.62 NATO. Made in Italy.

harmoniums

meathstevie wrote: »

BM59, pretty much a detachable magazine variant of the M1 in 7.62 NATO. Made in Italy.

Does it also have a built in bipod?

My classic go to CF semi is an Argentine FN49.


DSC04841 by harmoniums, on Flickr

DSC04842 by harmoniums, on Flickr


The Garand and M1 have better sights, but truth be told anything that there is more than a few thousand of these days doesn't interest me.

Grizzly 45

meathstevie wrote: »

BM59, pretty much a detachable magazine variant of the M1 in 7.62 NATO. Made in Italy.

WELL done!!,BUT you are half right,there is ONE other gun or varient..;)
No googling allowed to find it.:p

Grizzly 45

Ok,
Just to finish the BM59 story .There are five versions of it.
All based on the Garand action scaled down for 7.62 NATO

BM-59 Type E which is a full length Garand in 7.62 with the full length stock and a 20 round clip which was apprently alot closer to Garands original idea rather than the enbloc clip.

BM-59 Mark I: had a wooden stock with a semi-pistol grip stock and was a shortned"Tanker" style gun with shorter wood forend.

BM-59 Mark II: had a wooden stock with pistol grip to achieve a better control during full-auto fire
[Also known as the Nigerian pattern as it was sold to Nigeria]

BM-59 Mark III: or Ital TA (also known as the Truppe Alpine), was a variant with a pistol grip and a metallic folding buttstock, that was intended for mountain troops. The BM59 Para was similar to BM59 Ital TA, but was intended for paratroopers. It was equipped with a shorter barrel and flash-hider.

BM-59 Mark IV: had a heavier barrel with a plastic stock, and was used as a light squad automatic weapon

It has seen use and combat in various parts of the World from the Falklands to Somalia,however it never was the big hit like the FN or G3 rifles,but it is a good solidly built functioning gun.

Seeing that these evil Berettas have banned in the US since the last assault weapons ban in their original Beretta labeling,I could see a new enterprise for somone in building this model in its entireity in the US as a American model and design,as it is alot more PC and looks alot more civillian than most evillll baaaad assault rifles.:rolleyes:
Wouldnt say no to one meself!:D

Dalken

Slow news day...what exactly could historians glean from this messing round with old rifles? The expressions on the faces of the newsreaders at the end said it all really! !!