old Belvedere Cricket Club folds

Gordon Gecko

Great to have you on board Dan, as of about 9pm tomorrow night will post a Leinster cricket related thread that will be news! Hopefully your first bannings won't be warranted :pac:

TheDrog

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

Great to have you on board Dan, as of about 9pm tomorrow night will post a Leinster cricket related thread that will be news! Hopefully your first bannings won't be warranted :pac:

were you winding up the new mod? if not where's this news?

Gordon Gecko

TheDrog wrote: »

were you winding up the new mod? if not where's this news?

No winding up, unable to break the news until early January though as what I thought would be agreed at one meeting has been taken to an EGM next month. Suffice to say there will be one less club in Leinster come summer time.

TheDrog

well now I'm curious

TrueDub

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

No winding up, unable to break the news until early January though as what I thought would be agreed at one meeting has been taken to an EGM next month. Suffice to say there will be one less club in Leinster come summer time.

Fairly sure you've been scooped on Twitter.

Gordon Gecko

TrueDub wrote: »

Fairly sure you've been scooped on Twitter.

'Twould appear I have!

Cots

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

'Twould appear I have!

Is it Belvo? I mean why are you guys being so hush hush about it, if we all know who we're talking about why not say it's Belvo and be done with it

TrueDub

Cots wrote: »

Is it Belvo? I mean why are you guys being so hush hush about it, if we all know who we're talking about why not say it's Belvo and be done with it

Nobody's being hush-hush, I just left it to gordon to reveal the story if he wanted to.

Yes, Old Belvedere have removed all their adult teams from Leinster cricket. A sad day for a proud club.

Cots

TrueDub wrote: »

Nobody's being hush-hush, I just left it to gordon to reveal the story if he wanted to.

Yes, Old Belvedere have removed all their adult teams from Leinster cricket. A sad day for a proud club.

Sounded very hush hush to me, suppose there will be a few teams moving up leagues now to fill gaps.

Apologies for the stolen thunder Gordon

Gordon Gecko

Cots wrote: »

Sounded very hush hush to me, suppose there will be a few teams moving up leagues now to fill gaps.

Apologies for the stolen thunder Gordon

No worries, thought my fellow committee members would have been tighter lipped about it :pac: but yeah expect some rejigging of the leagues. Sad way to end 60 years of cricket but at least there's plenty of other clubs to join these days!

djimi

Sorry to hear that about Old Belvedere. Never nice to see any club have to fold, let alone a club that have been around for such a long time.

Oddly in all my years of playing league cricket we only ended up paired up with OB for one season.

TheDrog

can't say I'm entirely shocked, but it's sad to see. I don't think I ever played anything but underage there, like Djimi we were never in the same division

Cots

TheDrog wrote: »

can't say I'm entirely shocked, but it's sad to see. I don't think I ever played anything but underage there, like Djimi we were never in the same division

I find it quite hard to believe that Belvo found themselves in such strife, although they should have gone down about 3 times before eventually sinking out of div 2, they were still a div 2 club and no div 2 club should be folding realistically, for any reasons I could think of anyways, is there anything to be said that it might in part be down to a bitterness of not being in a senior division

Gordon Gecko

Cots wrote: »

I find it quite hard to believe that Belvo found themselves in such strife, although they should have gone down about 3 times before eventually sinking out of div 2, they were still a div 2 club and no div 2 club should be folding realistically, for any reasons I could think of anyways, is there anything to be said that it might in part be down to a bitterness of not being in a senior division

The playing side of things hasn't really come into the decision at all would you believe. The fact simply is there's a lack of administrators and people willing to perform all the off pitch duties that a club needs to function. The recommendation was made by an independent committee of past members who were asked to review the situation and we've gone ahead with what they've said.

Cots

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

The playing side of things hasn't really come into the decision at all would you believe. The fact simply is there's a lack of administrators and people willing to perform all the off pitch duties that a club needs to function. The recommendation was made by an independent committee of past members who were asked to review the situation and we've gone ahead with what they've said.

Generally clubs who do well tend to have people willing to do such things

Score of 10

Not so dissapointed to see Belvo gone, in recent years anyways never much pleasure to play against and always seemed to be some trouble playing against them, very awkward around match days aswell from the organisational side of things. If there is truth in what was said on the Cricket Ireland Forum today that there has been a mass exodus to YM clearly there were a couple of ring leaders, Dutt, Singh, who were essentially the lifeblood of the club and like sheep having seen them on pastures new, all of their brothers have followed them along to play at the same level, with better facilities, and not to mention better wickets, proves even the home team can get fed up playing on dirt tracks week in week out.

Gordon Gecko

Score of 10 wrote: »

Not so dissapointed to see Belvo gone, in recent years anyways never much pleasure to play against and always seemed to be some trouble playing against them, very awkward around match days aswell from the organisational side of things. If there is truth in what was said on the Cricket Ireland Forum today that there has been a mass exodus to YM clearly there were a couple of ring leaders, Dutt, Singh, who were essentially the lifeblood of the club and like sheep having seen them on pastures new, all of their brothers have followed them along to play at the same level, with better facilities, and not to mention better wickets, proves even the home team can get fed up playing on dirt tracks week in week out.

No mass exodus, no bitterness about being relegated to Division 3 or anything like that. As a club we would have been happy to continue even if it was just with one team playing in Div 14, the problem is simply administration. When the Junior school of the college closed its doors a few years ago the steady stream of players flowing into the club's underage sides dried up. This in turn meant less bodies graduating into the adult teams, and as our adult membership has aged people haven't had the time to do jobs necessary to run the club. Jobs like Hon. Sec. and Hon. Treasurer have been done, valiantly I might add, by the same people for too long and it is no longer fair or sustainable for them to shoulder so much work. They have served their club with distinction and, there being no one to take their place, the club could not go on.

The club's proud reputation has been slowly chipped away at by a variety of incidents over the past few years. The independent committee which reviewed the club's future has rightly pointed out that it would be unfair to allow the pride and honour of the club to be tainted by the actions of some unscrupulous individuals. The level of animosity of some individuals in Leinster who have constantly belittled both the club and the ground, very unfairly for the most part I believe, has never done anything to dampen my pride at being an Old Belvederian and playing my cricket at Cabra - I'm sure my fellow club members feel the same.

It's a sad, somewhat ignominious end, to a little over 60 years of cricket for Old Belvedere. Having taken up the sport while in the college I was lucky that there was a club for past pupils which welcomed me with open arms. Being a recent OB, I have only played with the club some 6 years. I'm sad I can't play with them longer, I'm sad I never got to play for the 1sts but I'm immensely proud to have played for a club with such history, to have played with so many great guys,both Old Belvederians and people with no affiliation to the college, who have put so much work into keeping the club alive and who made my 6 seasons with the club memorable ones which I will treasure as long as I will play this sport.

Yours sincerely,

A sad but very proud Old Belvederian.

Score of 10

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

No mass exodus, no bitterness about being relegated to Division 3 or anything like that. As a club we would have been happy to continue even if it was just with one team playing in Div 14, the problem is simply administration. When the Junior school of the college closed its doors a few years ago the steady stream of players flowing into the club's underage sides dried up. This in turn meant less bodies graduating into the adult teams, and as our adult membership has aged people haven't had the time to do jobs necessary to run the club. Jobs like Hon. Sec. and Hon. Treasurer have been done, valiantly I might add, by the same people for too long and it is no longer fair or sustainable for them to shoulder so much work. They have served their club with distinction and, there being no one to take their place, the club could not go on.

The club's proud reputation has been slowly chipped away at by a variety of incidents over the past few years. The independent committee which reviewed the club's future has rightly pointed out that it would be unfair to allow the pride and honour of the club to be tainted by the actions of some unscrupulous individuals. The level of animosity of some individuals in Leinster who have constantly belittled both the club and the ground, very unfairly for the most part I believe, has never done anything to dampen my pride at being an Old Belvederian and playing my cricket at Cabra - I'm sure my fellow club members feel the same.

It's a sad, somewhat ignominious end, to a little over 60 years of cricket for Old Belvedere. Having taken up the sport while in the college I was lucky that there was a club for past pupils which welcomed me with open arms. Being a recent OB, I have only played with the club some 6 years. I'm sad I can't play with them longer, I'm sad I never got to play for the 1sts but I'm immensely proud to have played for a club with such history, to have played with so many great guys,both Old Belvederians and people with no affiliation to the college, who have put so much work into keeping the club alive and who made my 6 seasons with the club memorable ones which I will treasure as long as I will play this sport.

Yours sincerely,

A sad but very proud Old Belvederian.

Fair enough, I understand how you feel, however are you saying that there is absolutley no truth in the post that reads as follows on the Forum today?

Old Belvedere...
Have heard on the LCU Grapevine that as Sameer Dutt is to Captain YM 2nds in 2013, a lot if not all of the Old Belvedere squad are going to Claremont Road. Must be the Indie Spice curries YM provide for teas?

It actually sounds plausible to me after 3 players already moving there in the last 2 years however that is the worry i would have that 3 players moved on and suddenly there is apparently half the team moving to Claremont Road.

Gordon Gecko

Score of 10 wrote: »

Fair enough, I understand how you feel, however are you saying that there is absolutley no truth in the post that reads as follows on the Forum today?

Old Belvedere...
Have heard on the LCU Grapevine that as Sameer Dutt is to Captain YM 2nds in 2013, a lot if not all of the Old Belvedere squad are going to Claremont Road. Must be the Indie Spice curries YM provide for teas?

It actually sounds plausible to me after 3 players already moving there in the last 2 years however that is the worry i would have that 3 players moved on and suddenly there is apparently half the team moving to Claremont Road.

I'm not saying that players from our 1st XI haven't moved to Claremont Road, I'm just saying that it had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to fold the club.

Renno

I'm obviously not party to any more information that Gordon Gecko, but would completely back him up by saying that the playing position in Old Belvedere was much healthier than other clubs of a similar size.

57 players played for them in 2012, more than all the other clubs with three teams apart from North Kildare and Dublin University.

Even from a playing standard point of view, Old Belvedere compare favourably (or equivalently in some cases) with the other three team clubs - the two already mentioned along with Terenure, Mullingar, Knockharley, Laois, Wicklow County, Balbriggan, Sandyford and Dundrum.

Any problems in Cabra definitely weren't between the calls of play and time

djimi

Its a real shame that with so many playing members a few werent prepared to step up to the plate and get involved in the organization side of the club. Its not something that everyone is willing or able to do, but sometimes needs must, and when its a choice between pitching in or seeing your club go under its a real shame that it came to the latter.

Score of 10

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

I'm not saying that players from our 1st XI haven't moved to Claremont Road, I'm just saying that it had absolutely nothing to do with the decision to fold the club.

Surely you can see where I'm coming from though, I mean the first team were a one man team a couple of years ago and stayed up by a miracle. If there are so many players why were the 2nd team deducted 48 points for starring regulation breaches? Surely of the 46 that arent on the 1st team list a 2nd team could have been made up? I simply dont understand that by some coincidence, the year Belvo eventually falls into div 3, is the year it decides to fold? There is something amiss in my opinion and instead of fighting to get back into div 2, they have just moved on to somewhere else I cant honestly see that it is purely lack of administration that leads to a club folding like this.

Cots

Belvo player also told porkies to an umpire in a game I played in an attempt to get a player in trouble... that's not cricket

djimi

Score of 10 wrote: »

Surely you can see where I'm coming from though, I mean the first team were a one man team a couple of years ago and stayed up by a miracle. If there are so many players why were the 2nd team deducted 48 points for starring regulation breaches? Surely of the 46 that arent on the 1st team list a 2nd team could have been made up? I simply dont understand that by some coincidence, the year Belvo eventually falls into div 3, is the year it decides to fold? There is something amiss in my opinion and instead of fighting to get back into div 2, they have just moved on to somewhere else I cant honestly see that it is purely lack of administration that leads to a club folding like this.

Why would an entire club fold because their 1sts dropped a division into div 3? That doesnt make much sense to me...

Score of 10

djimi wrote: »

Why would an entire club fold because their 1sts dropped a division into div 3? That doesnt make much sense to me...

Well evidently people were willing to do the dirty work for a div 2 club rather a div 3 one, also I think if this mass exodus has happened it speaks volumes about what even the members of the top teams in the club think of it that they can say they would rather move clubs and play in the same division (or in Rajesh Chawla's case move to a different club to play a lower division) similar to people not wanting to volunteer

djimi

Score of 10 wrote: »

Well evidently people were willing to do the dirty work for a div 2 club rather a div 3 one, also I think if this mass exodus has happened it speaks volumes about what even the members of the top teams in the club think of it that they can say they would rather move clubs and play in the same division (or in Rajesh Chawla's case move to a different club to play a lower division) similar to people not wanting to volunteer

It sounds to me like the problems ran much deeper than just the 1sts dropping a division. Plenty of clubs have 1sts that are nowhere near Div 2/3 and they have no problem operating.

Part of the problem with any club is finding people who are willing/able to get involved with the running of the club. We are all struggling in that regard (its not a problem that is unique to cricket). I find it amazing that a club like OB couldnt find enough people willing to help so that the club could even keep one team in the lower leagues for the sake of the keeping the club going, but by the sounds of it that is the situation.

TrueDub

I've split this off from the thread welcoming Dan as mod, as it deserves it's own thread.

I would ask all contributors to be thoughtful with their posts and not address individuals unnecessarily.

Thanks.

Cots

Cots banned for 2 days for questioning mod decision and abusive comments.

Beasty

Cots wrote: »

Does anyone know how I could go about the requested removal of a mod for removal of a post without giving any reason, by pm or otherwise as to why it was taken down? It's damn annoying when people wont let their views be heard and that's all I was asking for so if he is unwilling to allow this I dont think he is fit to "wear the trousers" as far as this page goes

Have you PM'd the mods to ask?

Now let me say something here (apologies to the local mods for butting in)

There is no such thing as "freedom of speech" on Boards. Your previous post openly challenged mod actions, and if I was a mod of this forum I would have given you a minimum of a yellow card, and probably a red card for that post. I will leave it to the local mods to take whatever action they consider appropriate on the post above, but any more challenging of mod actions in-thread and you will be taking a break from the forum,

If you do have a problem with a post, or poster, or any mod action, report the relevant post or PM the mods - do not respond in thread

If you have any questions, PM me

Dozen Wicked Words

Cots wrote: »

Does anyone know how I could go about the requested removal of a mod for removal of a post without giving any reason, by pm or otherwise as to why it was taken down? It's damn annoying when people wont let their views be heard and that's all I was asking for so if he is unwilling to allow this I dont think he is fit to "wear the trousers" as far as this page goes

No use complaining on thread, frowned upon and does no one any favours. If you have PM'd the Mod to ask him, best place to complain is the HELP DESK

Beaten to it by Beasty, but still think Help Desk info is useful so haven't deleted post if that's ok?

Dan man

I was in the middle of sending him a PM having just deleted his post and indeed completed it when I returned on thread to see the comments.
Look, I understand this is a sensitive topic but there's no reason why discussions can't be civil. No personal abuse for starters.

Score of 10

What an unsporting gesture by Cots, for the love of God leave it up to the mods and dont question them, if there's one thing I've seen from reading threads on here in my months observing and couple of days posting it's dont question them or feel the wrath!!

Beasty

dooferoaks wrote: »

Beaten to it by Beasty, but still think Help Desk info is useful so haven't deleted post if that's ok?

Just for everyone's benefit, the first port of call, as you say dooferoaks, is to PM the local mods. If following that exchange a satisfactory resolution is not reached, PM the CMods (currently me and Black Swan for the Sports category). Only when those avenues are exhausted should a Help Desk thread be started. Now back on topic

Thanks

Renno

This is normally pretty friendly. Poor old Dan man - he's only been here a few days! Anyway, I'll be keeping an eye in Prison to see if Cots turns up. Plenty of entertainment.

Back to the topic on hand. It just goes to show that all clubs need to keep their eye on the ball. Belvo dominated in the late 60s and early 70s, and there is a fantastic photo in the bar of a Senior Cup final in Cabra in the late 60's. The ground looked great and a big crowd were in attendance.

Sadly the ground pavilion has remained as a throwback to 1974 ever since with the pink roses in the front.

Just looking back at old cards. Even in 2001 they had a team with two Irish internationals in - Adam, de Vos, Calder, Grahame, Ken Sorenson, Dave O'Riordan, Peter O'Reilly, Hugh Prior, Conor Hoey, Jonker and Del McGeehan.

Gordon Gecko

Score of 10 wrote: »

Well evidently people were willing to do the dirty work for a div 2 club rather a div 3 one, also I think if this mass exodus has happened it speaks volumes about what even the members of the top teams in the club think of it that they can say they would rather move clubs and play in the same division (or in Rajesh Chawla's case move to a different club to play a lower division) similar to people not wanting to volunteer

Nope, as I've already told you it's nothing to do with the 1st XI dropping to Div 3. I don't know what club you're in, nor do I really care, but a club is about a lot more than the 1st XI. The committee in OB was dominated by 3rds players and we actively discussed continuing the club with just the 3rds but decided that it made no difference to our situation as we still needed "back room" staff but people just didn't have the time.

Score of 10

As a sort of related topic, did anyone find it strange how the leagues, particularly lower down towards 5-8 were restructured following Belvo folding?
I would have thought that teams which finished 3rd in a league would have been more worthy of being promoted than re-placing the team which had finished 2nd bottom, or both relegated teams in Division 5's case

TheDrog

to be fair that's how they've been doing things for a while

TrueDub

League restructuring is rarely simply about promotion & relegation. The Committee (I was on the old junior branch for years, but it's the same now on the OCC) takes into account a lot of things, and there's usually more information available around now about potential strength of teams, and whether other teams will be included or dropped.

It's not an exact science, but the objective is to as far as possible make things fair.

D3PO

TrueDub wrote: »

League restructuring is rarely simply about promotion & relegation. The Committee (I was on the old junior branch for years, but it's the same now on the OCC) takes into account a lot of things, and there's usually more information available around now about potential strength of teams, and whether other teams will be included or dropped.

It's not an exact science, but the objective is to as far as possible make things fair.

id have to agree with this. We don't have information that the OCC has about potential player numbers strength of teams at clubs. From a purely statistical basis you will find in the past teams that finished third in a division have tended to struggle after moving up anyway so without even getting into all that detail a side finishing second bottom staying up in that scenario is probably the right one.

Renno

Score of 10 wrote: »

As a sort of related topic, did anyone find it strange how the leagues, particularly lower down towards 5-8 were restructured following Belvo folding?
I would have thought that teams which finished 3rd in a league would have been more worthy of being promoted than re-placing the team which had finished 2nd bottom, or both relegated teams in Division 5's case

Started looking through the new structure, but couldn't find any problems in the top few divisions. Which examples were you looking at? In Division 5/6, it would have meant promoting Terenure 2 who were 4th on 49.7% and Phoenix who were 5th on 40.7%.

In my experience, in situations like this, a team may be promoted from further down a division in some cases, but only if it was thought they would stronger than the alternatives. Is that the case here?

Score of 10

Renno wrote: »

Started looking through the new structure, but couldn't find any problems in the top few divisions. Which examples were you looking at? In Division 5/6, it would have meant promoting Terenure 2 who were 4th on 49.7% and Phoenix who were 5th on 40.7%.

In my experience, in situations like this, a team may be promoted from further down a division in some cases, but only if it was thought they would stronger than the alternatives. Is that the case here?

I just thought it was strange to have no teams relegated from Div 5, didn't notice Merrion 4 couldn't go up to be honest. I would have thought the bottom team would go down and the team in 3rd go up, I see why it was done like that now.

D3PO

Score of 10 wrote: »

I just thought it was strange to have no teams relegated from Div 5, didn't notice Merrion 4 couldn't go up to be honest. I would have thought the bottom team would go down and the team in 3rd go up, I see why it was done like that now.

Merrion 4 couldn't go up. Oakhill disbanded (for all intense and purpose) so didnt go down to div 5 either. OCC at the end of the day has to put the teams in at their level. For me without a doubt they made the right call. The teams they left in Div 5 are better than then teams they would have plugged in from Div 6.

djimi

Oakhill are gone?!!

Renno

Wicklow County have dropped their Division 4 team - which played in and went by the name of Oakhill.

Wicklow County will now have two teams, and will be playing out of Aravon School

djimi

So no one is playing at Oakhill any more? Thats a real shame. What is it to be used for now? There was international A games to be played there a short while ago, wasnt there?

D3PO

djimi wrote: »

So no one is playing at Oakhill any more? Thats a real shame. What is it to be used for now? There was international A games to be played there a short while ago, wasnt there?

probably the same as it was used for before. Invitational games, I know the MCC have played there a few times, Ireland invitational XI's and the likes.

waste of a good ground but what can you do.

djimi

Criminal waste. Just glad I got to play there even just the once.