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PSNI announce Bloody Sunday murder probe.

Comments

  • #2
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Duiske wrote: »
    After the Saville inquiry, and the subsequent British Government apology, do people think this murder probe is a good idea ? Is it time to move on from the past ?
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1220/psni-to-launch-murder-probe-into-bloody-sunday.html

    Do we think a murder probe is a good idea?

    Innocent people lost their lives that day.

    Of course it's a good idea.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This may not be the most popular opinion but at some point they're all just going to have to move on. Yes the UK government, secret services, RUC etc. should admit fault properly, certain Republican elements should apologise etc. but as long as things keep getting dug up and put to the top of the agenda they'll never actually move on.


  • #4
    brummytom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    Duiske wrote: »
    do people think this murder probe is a good idea ?

    Tbh I think you've answered your own question there. It was murder of innocent civilians, mainly of children/young adults. The soldiers/killers should be held to account for their actions


  • #5
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Duiske wrote: »
    do people think this murder probe is a good idea ? Is it time to move on from the past ?

    The murder probe will help people move on from the past.

    Remember, the Saville Enquiry 'elevated' the status of the victims from bomb throwing terrorists to murdered.



    In before whataboutery and 'I don't care'.


  • #6
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,420 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I am sceptical. I don't think opening this can of worms is the best idea.

    When are the inquiries for the families of victims of the IRA and other paramilitary organisations?

    IMO it's time to draw a line in the sand.

    People can't "move on" when the past is constantly dug up. Especially not when a hierarchy of victims is being created.


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  • #7
    Duiske
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    brummytom wrote: »
    Tbh I think you've answered your own question there. It was murder of innocent civilians, mainly of children/young adults. The soldiers/killers should be held to account for their actions

    That would be my own view. I was just curious what others thought especially given the recent calls by the Finucane family for a public enquiry into the death of Patrick. I know there is quite a difference between between a public enquiry and a murder probe, but a lot of people seemed to suggest (in relation to the Finucane case) that it might be in the best interests of continued peace in NI if these things were left in the past.


  • #8
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,420 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Duiske wrote: »
    That would be my own view. I was just curious what others thought especially given the recent calls by the Finucane family for a public enquiry into the death of Patrick. I know there is quite a difference between between a public enquiry and a murder probe, but a lot of people seemed to suggest (in relation to the Finucane case) that it might be in the best interests of continued peace in NI if these things were left in the past.
    Agreed.

    When is Gerry Adams and the Finucane family going to call for an enquiry into the death of Jean McConville and other victims of IRA violence.

    Why are the Finucane family entitled to justice but the McConville family not?

    Edgar Graham, a solicitor shot by the IRA outside Queens University. Where is his enquiry?

    Truth only works if it's all the truth. We cannot have this half-baked situation we have now where it depends on who killed you.

    Hence my opinion that a line needs drawn, as we're never going to see the real truth. Too many people with too much to lose. Too many hypocrites running about.


  • #9
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    awec wrote: »
    Why are the Finucane family entitled to justice but the McConville family not?

    The Finucane family got an apology not justice. The Bloody Sunday families got an apology for their loved one's slaughter and then the dead being called terrorists not justice.

    It is highly unlikely the Finucane family will ever get justice because justice would involve exposing the dirty war that the authorities in Britain and the north got involved in via loyalist death gangs.


  • #10
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 54,420 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    The Finucane family got an apology not justice. The Bloody Sunday families got an apology for their loved one's slaughter and then the dead being called terrorists not justice.

    It is highly unlikely the Finucane family will ever get justice because justice would involve exposing the dirty war that the authorities in Britain and the north got involved in via loyalist death gangs.
    They want justice. That's what these enquiries are ultimately aiming for. A murder probe by the PSNI is not being done for an apology.

    Where is the enquiry for the McConville family? Where is the enquiry for the Graham family? What about the other families of violence, there's about 2000 of them at the hands of the IRA alone.

    There won't ever be proper truth in NI because too many have too much to lose. There are too many hypocrites with power right now.

    All truth and all justice or none. Not this sick hierarchy of victims that's being created right now.


  • #11
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    A murder enquiry is the only way to get the facts straight about what happened that day.

    a straight forward murder enquiry, which should have happened at the time, will draw a line under the event once and for all.

    These murders weren't in the line of duty, or collateral damage or even negligent discharges, they were simple murder and the soldiers should face the same punishment as a civilian.

    obviously after their two years in prison, they would be entitled to be hero worshiped and maybe even have a children's playground named after them, but justice should be done.


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  • #12
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    awec wrote: »
    I am sceptical. I don't think opening this can of worms is the best idea.

    When are the inquiries for the families of victims of the IRA and other paramilitary organisations?

    IMO it's time to draw a line in the sand.

    People can't "move on" when the past is constantly dug up. Especially not when a hierarchy of victims is being created.

    I think you'll find that the RUC and crown services prosecuted IRA actions to the fullest extent of the law at the time.

    Of course they were remarkably remiss in that regard for events like bloody sunday or for the actions of their pals in the UDR under the alphabetti spaghetti selection of nom de guerre they used when murdering taigs.


    that was the hierarchy of victims right there, prods get the protection of the law, taigs get fingered for death squads. Move on? You can move on tae f**k


  • #13
    getz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    The Finucane family got an apology not justice. The Bloody Sunday families got an apology for their loved one's slaughter and then the dead being called terrorists not justice.

    It is highly unlikely the Finucane family will ever get justice because justice would involve exposing the dirty war that the authorities in Britain and the north got involved in via loyalist death gangs.
    its so easy to throw the all the blame on the british goverment for the troubles in northern ireland,but a dirty war was also being played by certain members in the irish goverment,like two irish cabinet ministers charles haughey and neil blaney involved in gun running to the IRA in northern ireland,as well as official goverment money being paid to the IRA under the heading of; IRA defence money;, so you could say the irish goverment was also involved in IRA death gangs,


  • #14
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Should there be a murder probe? Well depends on whether you think murder should br investigated or not. It's really that simple.


  • #15
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    getz wrote: »
    its so easy to throw the all the blame on the british goverment for the troubles in northern ireland,but a dirty war was also being played by certain members in the irish goverment,like two irish cabinet ministers charles haughey and neil blaney involved in gun running to the IRA in northern ireland...

    The Catholic people of the north needed guns back then for one purpose and one only - defence. Who/What did they need to defend themselves from? Loyalist pogroms and the B-Specials/RUC who were beating and killing them for seeking civil rights not a united Ireland.

    Here's what was happening to them in 1969 (the first year of CAIN stats)
    14 July 1969 Francis McCloskey (67) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Died one day after being hit on head with batons during street disturbances, Dungiven, County Derry.

    17 July 1969 Samuel Devenny (42) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Died three months after being badly beaten in his home, William Street, Bogside, Derry. He was injured on 19 April 1969.

    14 August 1969 John Gallagher (30) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Ulster Special Constabulary (USC)
    Shot during street disturbances, Cathedral Road, Armagh.

    14 August 1969 Patrick Rooney (9) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Shot at his home, during nearby street disturbances, St Brendan's Path, Divis Flats, Belfast.

    15 August 1969 Hugh McCabe (20) Catholic
    Status: British Army (BA), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    On leave. Shot during street disturbances while on the roof of Whitehall Block, Divis Flats, Belfast.

    15 August 1969 Samuel McLarnon (27) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Shot at his home during nearby street disturbances, Herbert Street, Ardoyne, Belfast.

    15 August 1969 Michael Lynch (28) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Shot during street disturbances, Butler Street, Ardoyne, Belfast.

    01 December 1969 Patrick Corry (61) Catholic
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC)
    Died four months after being hit on the head with batons, during altercation between local people and Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) patrol, Unity Flats, off Upper Library Street, Belfast. Injured on 2nd August 1969.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1969.html


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