Advice on state of 80s frame and repairability

Harrybelafonte

This is a 1988 Benotto Columbus Cromor frame I bought of eBay thinking it would be a handy restoration job. As a I removed the paint and rust I discovered these:

Smaller bulge on underside of top tube:

Larger bulge on underside of down tube:

Really nasty brazing job on seat stays:

Looks like a crashed frame from the front bulges and maybe just fatigue or whatever on the seat stays?

Questions are

1) Will the bulges cause problems? Can they be fixed relatively easily?

2) Is there anyone about who would be able to redo the brazing?

Money is an issue, but I already spent a couple of quid on it and the extra heavy chrome forks that came with it so I'm loath to give up on it entirely yet.

Wibbs

Looks like crash damage alright Columbus Cromor is fairly heavy duty so I doubt failure would be a worry. Alignment would be a bigger worry. The brazing on the seatstays is odd. That's a fairly low stress area.

I dunno any framebuilders in Ireland unfortunately, maybe the UK would be your best bet?

Harrybelafonte

Wibbs wrote: »

Looks like crash damage alright Columbus Cromor is fairly heavy duty so I doubt failure would be a worry. Alignment would be a bigger worry. The brazing on the seatstays is odd. That's a fairly low stress area.

I dunno any framebuilders in Ireland unfortunately, maybe the UK would be your best bet?

Thanks. I've been led to believe that the seat stays disconnecting was a common enough fault with steel bikes in later years.

Lumen

Staggs Cycles (Andy?) would be a good place to get an opinion on repairability of the frame.

Mycroft H

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

This is a 1988 Benotto Columbus Cromor frame I bought of eBay thinking it would be a handy restoration job. As a I removed the paint and rust I discovered these:

Smaller bulge on underside of top tube

Larger bulge on underside of down tube:

Really nasty brazing job on seat stays:

Looks like a crashed frame from the front bulges and maybe just fatigue or whatever on the seat stays?

Questions are

1) Will the bulges cause problems? Can they be fixed relatively easily?

2) Is there anyone about who would be able to redo the brazing?

Money is an issue, but I already spent a couple of quid on it and the extra heavy chrome forks that came with it so I'm loath to give up on it entirely yet.

Looks like it got a fairly big smack to the front and I'd be concerned about the state of the forks (if they're the ones that got the smack). Steel won't snap too quick but I'd say it's fine for a pub bike.

Will a headset sit right in it? Was it described as being crashed on ebay? (or having damage)

I'd avoid staggs to be honest, they really didn't want anything to do with my old steel touring bike the last time I brought it in (to press in a headset), kind of disappointed, my dad said they were a fine shop back in the day. More interested in pushing me towards something new. Why was I cycling something obsolete was their question. I brought it to holyboy out in beecycles and that's where it's been going since.

gman2k

It's not economically viable to repair that frame. It's a cromor, which is not a desirable (sexy) steel like SLX, 753, 531Pro etc.
For example, check out the price list here for frame repairs on ArgosCycles.
Add in shipping, repainting, decals etc, and you've spent way way way more than the frame is worth.
Unless you have sentimentality for an old frame in particular......
Here is a list of other UK frame builders, some of whom will take on repairs, but you're still talking the same money roughly.

Lumen

BX 19 wrote: »

I'd avoid staggs to be honest, they really didn't want anything to do with my old steel touring bike the last time I brought it in (to press in a headset), kind of disappointed, my dad said they were a fine shop back in the day. More interested in pushing me towards something new. Why was I cycling something obsolete was their question.

That's interesting. I heard that Andy was the only person in Ireland certified to repair Reynolds tubing (though I may have misremembered that, or it might be Chinese whispers).

gman2k

I've been a Staggs customer for 25 years, I've never had a problem with anything!

Harrybelafonte

gman2k wrote: »

It's not economically viable to repair that frame. It's a cromor, which is not a desirable (sexy) steel like SLX, 753, 531Pro etc.
For example, check out the price list here for frame repairs on ArgosCycles.
Add in shipping, repainting, decals etc, and you've spent way way way more than the frame is worth.
Unless you have sentimentality for an old frame in particular......
Here is a list of other UK frame builders, some of whom will take on repairs, but you're still talking the same money roughly.

I know it's not as sought after as the others, but there's only 130g difference between it and SLX, it's hardly trash. But is the damage bad enough to make repair a necessity?

I may have a way of getting around postage costs, but I take your point about the costs. Thanks for the links.

Lumen wrote: »

That's interesting. I heard that Andy was the only person in Ireland certified to repair Reynolds tubing (though I may have misremembered that, or it might be Chinese whispers).

I have heard similar.

gman2k wrote: »

I've been a Staggs customer for 25 years, I've never had a problem with anything!

Nor have I for the last year. Looks like that's where I'll have to go first.

gman2k

Harry, you'll find that you'll pick up a perfect condition Benotto Cromor frame for less than the cost of repairing that one. Or head over to Finglas, there is always a selection of Steel hanging up for €250....

Harrybelafonte

True, but I'm thinking I may just respray this myself and be done with it and leave it as a conversion fixed gear. Have been to Finglas and nothing there took my fancy. I still have the De Rosa frame and the Peugeot to get rid of. Hopefully that'll leave me enough to throw at another classic.

kumate_champ07

ye it has had a head on crash, best to use it for turbo trainer use

kumate_champ07

Wibbs wrote: »

Looks like crash damage alright Columbus Cromor is fairly heavy duty so I doubt failure would be a worry. Alignment would be a bigger worry. The brazing on the seatstays is odd. That's a fairly low stress area.

I dunno any framebuilders in Ireland unfortunately, maybe the UK would be your best bet?

theres a new guy in Kildare just starting up, track and road racer guy, Brendan Whelan. its good to see a frame builder in Ireland but wish it wasnt in Kildare, was hoping to start my own business there too!

Wibbs

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Thanks. I've been led to believe that the seat stays disconnecting was a common enough fault with steel bikes in later years.

Really? I'd heard of it with older steelies alright, even saw it happen to a chap with 501 tubing back in the day. It's an area in compression so where the braze is is a bit odd.

gman2k wrote: »

It's not economically viable to repair that frame. It's a cromor, which is not a desirable (sexy) steel like SLX, 753, 531Pro etc.

Even there SL is lighter than SLX and I never noticed extra stiffness in the latter. Plus it depends on the "name" on the frame. Some of the best builders used different parts of different tubesets to dial in their preferences and I've seen very nice frames made of "lesser" tubing. That said if you look at the braze tidelines on Harry's example, they're OK, competent enough, but not high quality.

I'd tend to agree with the gman TBH. If it was your personal frame from way back I'd be first to shout hang the expense to get an "old friend" back on the road, even if it was made of old drainpipes, but not so much an ebay purchase. On that score can you ask for money back on the deal if the seller didn't reveal obvious crash damage? I reckon your idea of just knocking out a DIY fixie's an idea alright.

As for cost of frames. Italian tubing stuff is expensive, though you can get lucky, I saw a gorgeous near perfect mid 80's SL Zullo go for 150 quid(plus shipping) on ebay a week ago and there was just the one bidder(minging original paintjob so that may have put people off). Real bargains can be had with 753 of all tubing. Makes a gorgeous and very light frame and I've seen them go for barely over the 100 quid mark. The Americans(and others) seem to be fixated on the Italian stuff and even there it's usually big names like Colnago(which IMH aren't always as great as made out and usually heavier too) and ignore Reynolds to a great extent.

happytramp

I'd ride it, it's unlikely it's going to collapse. And visually, it'll be fine with decent paint job and decals. It certainly needs to be re-aligned from what I remember though. Just had Holyboy re-align a frame for me. It was actually pretty cool to watch, he used some very old school looking tools.

Weight wise, the difference between the various butted tubesets is negligible. You'd make it up with a decent set of tyres and tubes.

Harrybelafonte

happytramp wrote: »

I'd ride it, it's unlikely it's going to collapse. And visually, it'll be fine with decent paint job and decals. It certainly needs to be re-aligned from what I remember though. Just had Holyboy re-align a frame for me. It was actually pretty cool to watch, he used some very old school looking tools.

Weight wise, the difference between the various butted tubesets is negligible. You'd make it up with a decent set of tyres and tubes.

Fixie it is so. Was it not straight when we put the wheel from the Peugeot in it?

nilhg

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

theres a new guy in Kildare just starting up, track and road racer guy, Brendan Whelan. its good to see a frame builder in Ireland but wish it wasnt in Kildare, was hoping to start my own business there too!

http://www.bicycledesigncentre.com/


Another option might be Des Maye in Clonard, one of the guys in the club took his old steel bike up there recently for some repairs, not sure of contact details for him though.

happytramp

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Fixie it is so. Was it not straight when we put the wheel from the Peugeot in it?

I definitely remember thinking it looked out. No harm measuring spacing as it'll let you know if there's an obvious problem there.

hesker

Why go to the trouble and expense of doing up a crashed frame. Doesn't make much sense to me. I'd try to get money back from seller or just dump it.