what to do?

LegacyUser

Hi Everyone,
Gonna keep this as short as possible

I have a baby and the relationship with the father broke down. My ex is from a north african country originally but living in Europe for 26 yrs, where we met and i also used to live.

I don't really want to speak about the relationship itself or i'll be here all day, we never married and basically he is not religious, neither am i and we had agreed years ago that if there were kids, we would let them make their own minds up about religion, but we would teach them about Catholicism & Islam.

After the birth, he said TERRIBLE things to me and made a number of threats on a variety of subjects that were bad enough for me to call the relationship off.

Now he says that he wants the baby to visit his home country on a twice yearly basis to get to know the family on the other side and to absorb the culture/ language etc.

The problem is this: when we were still together, he said that when we go to his country we will have to pretend the baby is muslim. I was very unhappy as we had agreed all along on our religious issues, i said that it was a very short term solution and his reason for this pretence was that he didn't want to upset his mother. He said if i told them, i would tear the family apart. In all the years we were together, in all the discussions we had about religion and kids he never once mentioned this. He then said that if it is found out that the son of a muslim man is not a muslim, they will keep him and not let him go.
Obviously i said that the baby is not going to this country then, this sounded like a threat to kidnap him, so he started saying that he was talking sh**e, not to listen, he's just worried, etc.

He's started pushing hard now for the baby to visit, i reminded him that he's made a threat and he went mental, saying he didn't mean it, i can't just not let him see the other side of his family, or never go there.

I feel terrible, i'm not looking for legal advice, i'll get that myself. But there was a definite threat. I just don't know if it was meant or not. The problem is that if i give him the benefit of the doubt and bring him over, as soon as we land, the father has all the rights in that country, not the mother and especially not the unmarried mother. So in theory he could just decide the baby isn't leaving and i might not see him again. I'm terrified.

Has anyone else been in this situation, or know anyone who has? any advice would be great, even on how to handle my ex would help. Thanks so much

Balmed Out

No experience of anything like this but just want to say that whatever happens do not allow youre child to go to that country, let them come here to visit. He doesnt sound honest and has lied to you in the past, if he really could assert custody rights once over there then thats a chance I would never ever take.

Luca Brasi

Dont let that child out of the country. If you travel to his country and are forced to stay the next step he will take is to claim domicile and the courts will grant him custody.
There have been so many cases of this. I recommend contacting a good Family Law solicitor immediately. Dont get a passport forthe child or if you do keep it away from the father. This situation can become very serious if you dont take the correct approach

skyfall2012

I have some experience living in the Muslim community in a western country and though the people I lived with were very kind and generous people, the one thing I realised was that the men do not take the women seriously and the women I knew who were dating had to go to huge lengths to hide this from everybody, because they were not sure what would happen. One girl I knew married her college lecturer and her family never knew her location because of what her father and brother might do. These women were very brave.

Because the Muslim religion is so anti women (maybe not in original teachings, but how it is now being interpreted) Muslim men when together with western women will lie and convince them that they don't believe in it, until they have them where they want them.

These men have been brain washed since they were very young with this way of thinking, so very hard for anyone to convince them that it is probably not the healthiest way to think.

So I would advise you not to go to his country in light of his threats. To help give you some insight into Muslim culture read:
A Thousand Splendid Suns - By Khaled Hosseini It is a fictional story based on reality.

Merkin

Do not under any circumstances let your son out of your sight. If you were to let the child go on a visit there is a very real possibility that you will never see him again. I really think you should get the advice of a family law society so you can professional advice in this matter. I'd also be pushing for supervised visits with the father as the threat of him just taking off with your son is a possibility that has to be considered.

LegacyUser

OP here, Thanks so much to those of you who have replied.

I was only due to come home to have the baby and stay a month or two before heading back to where i normally live with this man (in europe).
Since all this has happened, the break up etc, i have refused to return entirely. He's come over to see the baby and thats fine.
He wants us to go back and is hounding me about it, saying put myself in his position and think what i would do if this was the other way around.
Things is if we went to his home country, he might decide that now he has power, to let me see how it feels.

Merkin

You are under no obligation to do anything you don't want to do. Don't give in to any "hounding" or harassment or anything else. You have to do what is best for the safety of you and your baby, giving into any of his threats would be inadvisable. I'd allow him access here in Ireland under supervision and that's about it.

R.D. aka MR.D

OP you also have to remember that this man is the child's father.

You should consult legal advice so things are worked out fairly between you. What is fair for you and what is fair for him.

LegacyUser

Hey,
OP here again,

Just to clarify, i know he's the father and he needs to be a part of the baby's life, i'm not going to deny him access at all. I would like for him to be able to see him when he wants. i don't think it needs to be supervised but now i think i should hold the baby's passport.

Our long term plan was to return to Dublin in the future as its better for raising a baby than where we were. So the father is working towards re-locating here anyway. I am currently in counselling for crisis management which is extremely helpful.

I am going to seek legal advice also, so i think i am doing what is currently in my power to do to inform myself so the most educated decision can be made.

skyfall, I have been told all along by him the exact opposite of what he's now saying with regards to the role of the mother and the father, men versus women, religion and culture. I have known him for years, and for years he has kept this well hidden- i mean very well hidden. This all came out in a torrent of expectations suddenly after the baby was born and threats ensued when i refused to comply.
It seemingly came from nowhere. It would take one journey and i might never see him again, Its one of the worst things to say to a mother and now i can't ignore the threat of abduction.

skyfall2012

chooboo wrote: »

skyfall, I have been told all along by him the exact opposite of what he's now saying with regards to the role of the mother and the father, men versus women, religion and culture. I have known him for years, and for years he has kept this well hidden- i mean very well hidden. This all came out in a torrent of expectations suddenly after the baby was born and threats ensued when i refused to comply.
It seemingly came from nowhere. It would take one journey and i might never see him again, Its one of the worst things to say to a mother and now i can't ignore the threat of abduction.

Hi OP, I can absolutely understand why you might never have seen this coming. I only have an understanding of this myself, because I lived with a Muslim girl and had Muslim friends.

She tried to explain to me in the beginning about the culture and how women are viewed in it, but I found it hard to believe that a intelligent woman like her and her friends had to hide and lie about dating men etc.

But one evening we were in a coffee shop about 10 pm and a distant male cousin of hers approached us and asked her, 'what the hell she was doing in a coffee shop at that hour of the night on her own', they had a massive row.

This was the first incident, where I began to take, what she was trying to explain to me seriously and there was plenty other situations after that which reinforced her argument.

The Muslim community has a lot of power and there is a huge emphasis on keeping people from shaming their families.

I have a neighbour who is dating a guy from Pakistan, he seems really lovely, but knowing what I know about their culture I really am not sure if she is been given the full picture from this guy and he admits he is religious. I have tried to explain to her, but it is a very hard thing to understand unless you seen it first hand yourself.

I think you are doing everything right so far, but you know what they say 'know your enemy', so if I were you I would try and get more insight into his culture and what is driving him to threaten you, as you may be able to use it to fight for your rights in the future.

Redmal

Hi OP. My mum is Irish and my father is Arab. They divorced when I was very young and my mum found herself in a very similar situation. My mum was terrified and as a result I was never allowed over to visit and any visits here were in a very controlled environment until I was 18. I'm in my 30's now and I now have a very nice relationship with him albeit a very distant one and very much still on my terms. I think he appreciates me now in a way he never would have done otherwise.

My advice to you would be to err on the side of caution. Your gut instinct is probably the right one.

Also, I was raised catholic and as far as I am aware, this was never an issue for him or any member of his family. I think we were lucky in that maybe they had a bit more of a liberal view about it all.

Good luck OP and stay strong.