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Breaking Leases?

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  • 19-12-2012 10:34pm
    #1
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭


    Ok so basically I'm looking around for a place to stay in Dublin. As of this moment, I am unsure whether I will be in Dublin for 12 months+ or just 6 months. If I sign a 12 month fixed lease and end up having to leave after 6 months what are my options?


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    #2
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    Negotiate an early departure with the landlord, assign your lease to someone else or walk out and forfeit your deposit (and in theory be chased for the rest of the money).

    Quite detailed information on the citizens information website.


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    #3
    beaner88
    Site Banned Posts: 154 ✭✭beaner88


    You can reassign a lease easily and you won't have to forfeit any deposit. A buoyant rental market helps in that regard.


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    #4
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Ok so basically I'm looking around for a place to stay in Dublin. As of this moment, I am unsure whether I will be in Dublin for 12 months+ or just 6 months. If I sign a 12 month fixed lease and end up having to leave after 6 months what are my options?


    Your options are to sign a 6 months lease only. Period.

    By law if you sign a 12 month lease and leave after 6, you will not only lose your deposit but most likely the landlord will pursue you for the remaining 6 months of the lease (as is their right to do) and be awarded the remainder of the rent. Remember when you sign a lease you sign a legally binding agreement.

    A landlord more than likely will not permit reassignment of a lease so....


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    #5
    beaner88
    Site Banned Posts: 154 ✭✭beaner88


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Your options are to sign a 6 months lease only. Period.

    By law if you sign a 12 month lease and leave after 6, you will not only lose your deposit but most likely the landlord will pursue you for the remaining 6 months of the lease (as is their right to do) and be awarded the remainder of the rent. Remember when you sign a lease you sign a legally binding agreement.

    A landlord more than likely will not permit reassignment of a lease so....
    Ignore this guy.

    The landlord has zero right to retain any of the deposit unless they have suffered a financial loss. They have to relet without delay and they can charge you for advertising costs. But you can just reassign somebody else and do this job for them. You will be liable for the remainder of the rent if they leave.


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    #6
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    beaner88 wrote: »
    Ignore this guy.

    The landlord has zero right to retain any of the deposit unless they have suffered a financial loss. They have to relet without delay and they can charge you for advertising costs. But you can just reassign somebody else and do this job for them. You will be liable for the remainder of the rent if they leave.
    You can't assign the lease to just anybody. The person has to at least fulfill the same requirements the landlord had of the original tenant (employed in secure job, for example....a Garda tenant could not reasonably expect the LL to accept an assignee who was doing an internship for a few weeks with no fixed job contract etc.)

    Basically, you should be prepared to at least lose your deposit if you walk out on your end of the agreement. A tenant would not be ok with a landlord telling them to take a hike 6 months into a year long lease, so I don't see why some people feel it should be ok to do it in reverse.


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    #7
    beaner88
    Site Banned Posts: 154 ✭✭beaner88


    murphaph wrote: »
    You can't assign the lease to just anybody. The person has to at least fulfill the same requirements the landlord had of the original tenant (employed in secure job, for example....a Garda tenant could not reasonably expect the LL to accept an assignee who was doing an internship for a few weeks with no fixed job contract etc.)

    Basically, you should be prepared to at least lose your deposit if you walk out on your end of the agreement. A tenant would not be ok with a landlord telling them to take a hike 6 months into a year long lease, so I don't see why some people feel it should be ok to do it in reverse.

    Jesus wept. Read the residential tenancies act. That is my advice to everybody. All of these questions are covered. Is there a section about what sort of people you are allowed reassign the lease to? No. The likelihood is that they are human and have a job so the landlord can have no issue.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/print.html#sec186
    Tenant may terminate where consent to assignment or sub-letting withheld.
    Simple plain english.


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    #8
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    beaner88 wrote: »
    Ignore this guy.

    The landlord has zero right to retain any of the deposit unless they have suffered a financial loss. They have to relet without delay and they can charge you for advertising costs. But you can just reassign somebody else and do this job for them. You will be liable for the remainder of the rent if they leave.

    It might be a bit different in Dublin where there seems to be a bit of a shortage of rental properties, but for the rest of the country even if you assign your lease Id say you wont see much of your deposit back given the time it would take. Even in Dublin unless you had a suitable candidate lined up to take over straight away you are going to lose some money.


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    #9
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    beaner88 wrote: »
    Jesus wept. Read the residential tenancies act. That is my advice to everybody. All of these questions are covered. Is there a section about what sort of people you are allowed reassign the lease to? No. The likelihood is that they are human and have a job so the landlord can have no issue.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/print.html#sec186


    Simple plain english.

    The landlord is entitled to apply the same criteria to the new tenant as they did to the original tenant, they are entitled to vet the tenant and they are not obliged to accept just anyone the existing tenant brings to them.


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    #10
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    vicwatson wrote: »
    most likely the landlord will pursue you for the remaining 6 months of the lease (as is their right to do) and be awarded the remainder of the rent.

    In fairness its highly unlikely that a landlord will bother to chase a tenant for outstanding rent given the cost and effort involved. Chances are that if the tenant illegally breaks the lease the landlord will just keep their deposit and cut their loses.
    vicwatson wrote: »
    A landlord more than likely will not permit reassignment of a lease so....

    If the landlord refuses the reassignment then the tenant can legally break the lease and expect their deposit returned to them (or whatever portion of it they are owed after deductions).


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    #11
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    If the landlord refuses the reassignment then the tenant can legally break the lease and expect their deposit returned to them (or whatever portion of it they are owed after deductions).

    Depends on what's written into the lease. And anything can be written into a lease pre signing. Tenant doesn't have to sign it but if they do they are legally obliged to follow the conditions of the lease.

    People forget, like beaner88, that they are signing a legally binding contract when signing a lease.

    I would pursue somone that signed a 12 month lease and legged it after 6, absolutely, all the way. However if they legged it at 10 months I probably wouldn't.


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    #12
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Depends on what's written into the lease. And anything can be written into a lease pre signing. Tenant doesn't have to sign it but if they do they are legally obliged to follow the conditions of the lease.

    People forget, like beaner88, that they are signing a legally binding contract when signing a lease.

    I would pursue somone that signed a 12 month lease and legged it after 6, absolutely, all the way. However if they legged it at 10 months I probably wouldn't.

    Not necessarily. Nothing can be written into a lease that aims to reduce the rights of the tenant as laid out in the tenancy act, and even if the tenant were to sign a lease containing such rights they would have absolutely no legal standing whatsoever if it were to go to a dispute.


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    #13
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    So does the assignment thing still apply to fixed term leases? Can I tell the landlord I'll find someone else and if he refuses I can leave freely? Or is that only for non-fixed leases?


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    #14
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    So does the assignment thing still apply to fixed term leases? Can I tell the landlord I'll find someone else and if he refuses I can leave freely? Or is that only for non-fixed leases?
    That applies to fixed term leases. You offer to find an assignee and if the landlord flatly refuses, then you may leave (giving sufficient notice, 28 days I believe, open to correction on that) and should expect your deposit back.

    The LL might have someone lined up who'll pay more, you never know your luck. If not, expect to find a suitable replacement for the LL or face losing deposit at least. Some LLs do actually chase tenants who do a bunk (and rightly so, although often times it's a hiding to nothing)


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    #15
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    You'll be breaking a lease ; you'll be loosing your deposit & risking more. Just be upfront - if you will know in 5 months ( assumedly) whether you will be staying or not then your LL will have a months notice in the 6 months lease or get a bonus extension to 12. Being dishonest upfront isn't a great start.

    Isn't there a short term & sharing section in daft ; have you looked there?


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    #16
    Monica Molloy
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Monica Molloy


    First time Landlord, tenant broke 12 month lease. Notified via text after 3 1/2 months (two weeks notice) 'moving in 2 weeks'. What are my obligations/rights? Tenant late on every rental payment between 6-13 days every month. Letter sent via arrears, tenant gave notice...


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    #17
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Honest opinion? Be thankful this waster is moving on and do everything you can to encourage the process. It could be MUCH worse (he could have decided to stay and pay no rent).


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    #18
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    murphaph wrote: »
    Honest opinion? Be thankful this waster is moving on and do everything you can to encourage the process. It could be MUCH worse (he could have decided to stay and pay no rent).

    I agree. Deduct what you are owed from the deposit, but ultimately cut your losses and move on. Not worth the hassle of fighting a tenant like this; just be glad to see the back of them.


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    #19
    D3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    agree with the two above posts. Be thankful they are moving on and concentrate on finding a good tenant to replace them. Sounds like a lucky miss for you.


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    #20
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    So does the assignment thing still apply to fixed term leases? Can I tell the landlord I'll find someone else and if he refuses I can leave freely? Or is that only for non-fixed leases?
    Unless you have a fixed term lease, you don't have to assign.

    If you want to assign your lease (or where you are one of a number of tenants on a lease) you must first seek permission to assign. If the landlord says no, then you can serve the landlord with a Notice of Termination giving 28 days notice. However, I have never known a landlord to refuse unless he has someone already lined up which is unlikely.

    When the landlord agrees to an assignment, it is then up to you to find a suitable replacement tenant and pay any costs in doing so (advertizing, if you have to and any possible legal costs).

    Some people say that there is nothing in the RTA about a replacement tenant having to be accepted by the landlord (after his vetting). However, in a PRTB tribunal case the PRTB declared that the landlord has the right to vet any prospective tenant and may refuse anyone not meeting his criteria. However, the landlord cannot make more demands (or have a more strict requirement) of the new tenant than he did for the vacating tenant.

    Where there was no fixed term agreement in place, a tenant will have a Part 4 tenancy and a vacating tenant only has to give the landlord a Notice of termination with the appropriate amount of notice which depends on the length of time he has lived in the property. The landlord cannot keep the deposit for breaking a Part 4 tenancy except for damage in excess of normal wear and tear (and any other type of legally allowed retention such as cleaning, utilities unpaid etc. but not for breaking the Part 4 lease).


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    #21
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Youre replying to a 14 month old post there Odds_on... :pac:


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    #22
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    djimi wrote: »
    Youre replying to a 14 month old post there Odds_on... :pac:
    I hardly ever look at the dates of posts. If the thread is currently being used, then, like a fool, I assume that the whole thread is recent. Thanks djimi.

    Anyway, if someone was looking for the answer to that post and as that post hadn't been specifically replied to, it has been now.


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